Page:Notes and Queries - Series 11 - Volume 11.djvu/106

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96


NOTES AND QUERIES. [ii s. xi. JAN. so, 1915.


En 1624 il etait en Hollande On ne sait pas

si Simon est retourn6 en Hollande ou quand il est mort."

I have compiled a list from Franken's book of all work done by the Van de Passe family in London, and I will forward it to your correspondent if he wishes.

A. L. HUMPHREYS.

187, Piccadilly, W.

" As SOUND AS A ROACH'S " (11 S. x. 468 ; xi. 18). Three years ago in Devonshire, when asking a friend about a third person's health, I was assured that " He 's as healthy as a trout." W. CURZON YEO.

Richmond, Surrey.

FRANCE AND ENGLAND QUARTERLY (11 S. x. 281, 336, 396, 417, 458, 510; xi. 50, 74). As the placing of the "lily coat" in the first quarter of the Boyal arms seems to be con- sidered a difficulty, I would suggest that the arms were considered, not as family arms, but as arms of dominion, in which case Edward III. would naturally give prece- dence to those of the kingdom which he considered the more important. In the same way, when James VI. of Scotland succeeded to the throne of England he placed the arms of France and England quarterly in the first quarter of his shield, relegating Scotland to the second. William of Orange adopted the British Royal arms as they stood, placing his paternal arms on an inescutcheon. The Elector of Hanover rele- gated the arms of Hanover to the fourth quarter, properly giving precedence to Great Britain, France, and Ireland. And our late sovereign, not inheriting any dominions from his father, abandoned his paternal arms altogether.

Arms of dominion, or territorial arms, were well recognized. Richard II. having given the territory and lordship of Ireland, with the title of Marquess of Dublin, to Robert de Vere, ninth Earl of Oxford, shortly afterwards granted him " arma de azuro cum tribus coronis aureis, et una circumferencia vel bordura de argento." These Robert placed in the first and fourth quarters of his shield, relegating his paternal arms to the second and third (Doyle, ' Official Baronage,' ii. 729 ; Beltz, ' Memorials of the Garter,' p. 303). In the same reign Sir William le Scrope, having bought the lord- ship of the Isle of Man, seals a treaty with a seal bearing the arms of Man only ( ' A Great Historic Peerage,' Plate II.), though, according to a sixteenth -century roll, he quartered his paternal arms, keeping Man in the first and fourth quarters (Doyle, op.


cit., iii. 673). At a later date the Stanley Earls of Derby, Lords of Man, quartered the arms of Man.

The only argument against this theory seems to be the novel point raised by MR. EDEN that by the Treaty of Bretigny Edward renounced "the name and right to the crown of France," but that there is no evidence that he ceased to bear the lily coat. No doubt he should have done so, although the formal renunciations for which the treaty provided were never made ; but Edward cheerfully ignored logic when the argument was against him, as his claim to the French crown shows. He claimed as the nearest male in blood to the late king, as against the heir male (Charles of Valois) and the heir general (Joan, Queen of Navarre) ; but when Joan gave birth to a son (Charles the Bad) Edward did not withdraw his claim, although his own argument made the boy the rightful heir.

That the Counts and Dukes of Anjou from the late thirteenth century bore the lily coat is no doubt due to the fact that they were cadets of the Royal house of France, and so bore the fleurs-de-lis in the same way that the Earls and Dukes of Lancaster bore the English lions, duly differenced in both cases. MR. EDEN, how- ever, points out that in a fifteenth -century window the Dukes of Anjou are depicted as bearing France ancient without difference, which requires explanation. Was the shield considered to be sufficiently distinguished from the King's by the number of fleurs-de- lis ? Or was it only an eccentricity of the artist ?

I am greatly obliged to MR. A. R. BAYLEY and MR. EDEN for their information about the enamelled slab attributed to Geoffrey of Anjou. From what is said by the latter it seems more than ever doubtful that Geoffrey bore arms. G. H. WHITE.

St. Cross, Harleston, Norfolk.

AN ANALOGY TO SIR THOMAS BROWNE (11 S. xi. 1).- MR. KENNETH M. LEWIS, writing from Short Hills, New Jersey, asks, regarding " Brampton, England " :

" Was the region around Brampton at one time in the vicinity of a large river, or did the sea approach close thereto, making the wall method ot burial compulsory ? "

There are several Brarnptons in England, and Sir Thomas Browne wrote " Concerning some Urnes in Brampton Field, in Norfolk. Ann. 1667." This Norfolk Brampton is situated by the river Bure, not far from Aylsham, in low-lying land near the water's