Beleg Tâl Beleg Tâl | Talk Archives


You mentioned better search, I am hoping that you have one of the improved lookahead techniques in place from your preferences. I use "Redirect mode with subphrase matching (advanced)" — billinghurst sDrewth 14:09, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

I do have that, I merely mentioned it because I was replying to a comment that said pages such as Author:Emerson were necessary because search was not sufficient for finding such pages. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:12, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

BrokenRedirects after moves of Flint and FeatherEdit

Hi. A lot of broken redirects were laft behind from moves of Flint and Feather, see Special:BrokenRedirects. I see two option, delete them or point them to the new location. Any preference? Let me know if you need assistance in fix it. Thanks.Mpaa (talk) 22:39, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

@Mpaa: They all need to be pointed to the new location, not deleted. I was planning to do it once I get AWB working on this PC, but if you are in a position to fix it and it's not too much bother, go for it. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:08, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Lab rat?Edit

I made… a thing. It's hacky as no neveryoumind, and probably buggy as crap, and I wouldn't be surprised if it pushed over little old ladies and made babies cry in its spare time. But anyways…

mw.loader.load( '/w/index.php?title=User:Xover/Headertools.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript');

It adds a bunch of stuff to the Tools section of the sidebar when in edit mode in the Page: namespace. Primarily a "Reset header and footer" command that will go fetch the stuff set in the header and footer fields in the associated Index:, and insert it into the current page's header and footers, replacing whatever was there before. It (tries to) supports ProofreadPage's {{{pagenum}}}, replacing it with whatever label is set for this page in the Index:. It also supports a custom {{{chapter}}} magic value that will be replaced with the current chapter title if one is set (see below).

It also has a "Set chapter title" command that prompts for a text string to use for replacing {{{chapter}}} when resetting the header and footer.

And finally it has "Auto-reset header and footer" and "Stop auto-resetting header and footer", that enable or disable automatically resetting the header and footer on page load.

The impetus for this dingus is works that have been Match&Split, since phe-bot, despite the docs, does not honour the header and footer fields in the Index:. By setting something suitable in the Index: and turning on auto-reset, updating the "current chapter" as you go, you should be able to essentially forget about the header and footer when proofreading. I haven't tested with regular (non-M&S) proofreading, but the chapter replacement should make that more convenient too.

It uses the Web Storage API's localStorage facility to remember "current chapter" and "auto on/off" per work (it keys off base filename), which means it'll stick across sessions, but will not stick across web browsers or different computers. It also means aggressive anti-virus may conceivably block it, and if you use other web apps that put stuff in localStorage these settings may eventually get evicted (there's a size limit, but no time-based expiration).

In any case, since you're probably the biggest M&S user on the project I figured you might be interested. I'm not sure yet whether this will ever be suitable for general community use, or whether it has sufficient utility to be worth it (it's made for a pretty specialised use case), but if you play around with it I'd appreciate any feedback (and that goes for any talk page stalkers that like to live dangerously too). No guarantees it'll work, and no guarantees I won't suddenly decide to rewrite it, breaking it horribly in the process, but, in any case, there it is. --Xover (talk) 16:32, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Sounds very cool! I'll give it a try soon. -Pete (talk) 22:13, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
@Xover: sounds amazing, will give it a shot! —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:29, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Works great, at least for my straightforward situation. Thanks! I will continue using it where I can, and I'll let you know if I see anything worth noting. Seems like as good a time as any to learn a bit more about the wildcards and magic words that can be used on index pages. -Pete (talk) 17:07, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
And now it should support non-M&S works too. It used to botch the page number because it was only looking for links on the index that pointed to existing pages. It now falls back to checking for (redlinks) pages that do not yet exist when the first fails. CC Pete. --Xover (talk) 08:11, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

oddity symbolEdit

Would you like to have a guess at the symbol in the table (column 3) at Page:The Present State and Prospects of the Port Phillip District of New South Wales.djvu/33billinghurst sDrewth 14:07, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: it's the 'per' sign Beleg Tâl (talk) 22:43, 26 January 2020 (UTC)


Think that is much as I am going to get on vital details. There is some odds and sods data, but variation on the same points. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:30, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Index:The Christian Year.djvu ?Edit

Bad file? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:16, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: Wrong edition, and it is easier to delete the one page than to migrate everything and make a versions page —Beleg Tâl (talk) 17:19, 3 February 2020 (UTC)


Somewhat simplistic, but I'd like a second view on using this on the work you recently scan backed (assuming I find some more details on the translator...) A play script is in essence a "list" of dialogue lines..

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:44, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: It's very clever, and well done. I'm not sure if I agree with the choice to use definition lists for play scripts; I don't object to it, but I would seek broader consensus before making it common usage beyond The Daughter of Heaven. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:09, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Also: I notice that we have a number of script-formatting templates, each of which has a specific style and a very generic name: {{playscript}}, {{dialogue indented}}, and now {{stagescript/s}}. Perhaps an opportunity presents itself to make a broader framework that supports various styles. Do you know whether TemplateStyles supports some method of using a different style sheet per work? Maybe something like {{Stagescript/s|centered-smallcaps}}. Just spitballing. I don't know. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:09, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Well I can add a model-parameter that changes the stylesheet/class name? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:44, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
@ShakespeareFan00: good thinking. Then we can specify the class name as a parameter, with a list of supported class names in the template documentation. And thus we can use the template in any work that has play scripts, regardless of how it is formatted. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:51, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Note - This template is "Scene" style , some of the other templates you mention are "cue-style" : Both should be possible with one template and a style-sheet if done carefully. See some examples of script formats here for the difference ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:00, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
@Xover: Can you take a look at the stylesheet, and add things, tidy up? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:00, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
@ShakespeareFan00: I'm not sure I'm the best person to comment on this since I rarely work with stage scripts and hence have a poor grasp of the needs. From a technical perspective I don't like the definition list as the markup (it is semantically iffy, and at the same time constraining), and the use of conditionally loaded TemplateStyles is just asking for trouble (it's not designed to be used like that).
Are we sure this is solving a problem that is commensurate with the complexity of the solution? Do we have a lot of such scripts? Where manual formatting is sufficiently problematic / tedious? That all fall into a number of categories small enough that it is reasonable to have a stylesheet for each? And where each unit of the work is large enough that we hit the transclusion limit?
My only real thought immediately is that it might be better to have multiple "start" templates that each just load a single TemplateStyle. --Xover (talk) 16:59, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
@Xover: Well I am minded to scrap the whole thing, because Mediawiki as always decides to "get in the way" (sigh) Page:Daughter of Heaven.djvu/27 with an attempt at a simpler stylesheet using headings, except Mediawikis default styling gets in the way. Why waste my time if Mediawiki is going to fight me all the way? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:12, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
@ShakespeareFan00: Yeah. Fighting MediaWiki is generally a losing proposition. Some things are just not practical without explicit support in the platform. Best just to do the best we can within those limitations, and look for opportunities to push for long term solutions (such as your "list defined references from a separate page" suggestion on Phab). --Xover (talk) 18:16, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
The stylesheet which Mediawiki decided not to follow (due to other classes) is here - Template:Stagescript/simplistic.css, Applying header levels using wikitext markup causes Mediawikis internal classes to conflict, DESPITE the stylesheet quite definitely defining text alignments it doesn't reliably apply them. I'm reverting my changes and going back to using the previous approach. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:22, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
See also T162402, If there was a specfic tag for writing scripts... like there is for poems, music, math etc.. 20:49, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Wikilivres is definitely deadEdit

Wikilivres has been offline since the middle of August 2019. That's six months now. It's obviously not coming back. I think that the page about it and the template that links to it should be deleted and an effort should be made to remove all of the many (now broken) links to it on this site. Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 10:23, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

@Simon Peter Hughes: I agree about it being dead. I'd get WS:S or WS:PD on board before starting deletions. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:06, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. I will now go to the right place and propose that the Help page and the template be deleted. Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 13:29, 14 February 2020 (UTC)


I am not certain that this is fully going to work as expected, at least not in Page ns:. If this template is used in the header section of Page: then it is going to be <p> formatting inside and not work. I see the template {{fsx}} used in Page:Life and Adventures of William Buckley.djvu/222 and surrounding pages, and that doesn't work on Life and Adventures of William Buckley/Addenda.

The fsx template says "{{Font-size-x/s}} for paragraphs spanning pages. Terminate with {{Font-size-x/e}}". We need div templates to properly span. Anyway, I will look at again when my head is not swimming with sleep hormones. I need to park it somewhere. — billinghurst sDrewth 15:35, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Why not use {{Fsx-block/s}}, {{Fsx-block/e}} ? which already exist. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:52, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
I didn't make the choice, I am reflecting on what was used, and what the template says to use. I am also reflecting that span templates don't work in headers of templates when displaying the Page:, though do work when transcluded. We will need to have a look at the usage and work out the better way to resolve. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:29, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: if it works in mainspace, does it matter if it doesn't quite work in Page space? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 00:28, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
<shrug> If people expect it to work in Page: ns and they faff around because it isn't??? It may be a documentation solution and some 'see also, and then telling people that if they have a block of text that they should use the other template set, not currently noted. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:08, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: I think I made this long ago, before I realized that span formatting doesn't need to cross page breaks (just end it and then start it again at the top of next page). I'm completely fine with removing extant usage and deleting the templates if that's what is desired. I think I only used it in the BCP. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:50, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Greek poetry validationEdit

Do you feel comfortable enough with Greek to validate Chapter 3 (pp 58–126) of The Poems of Sappho (1924)? I expect to finish chapter 3 today, and it is the core of the volume, containing the original Greek of Sappho's poems as well as translations and notes.

The Greek font used in this volume can be a little tricky if you're not used to it. It isn't the usual 19th-century Greek font, but a medieval-derived version that more resembles small-caps, and which uses the lunate sigma instead of the usual sigma. I say more about that and why I've chosen to transcribe the text using modern conventions in my explanation here. There isn't any reason I can see to attempt to preserve the archaic script form, and if someone really desires, they can pull up the original text in the Page namespace.

Also, the DjVu text layer was generated with smart quotes, and I chose to retain them for this work.

It would be much appreciated if you can help to validate this work. It's a 1924 publication, a milestone in Sappho scholarship, and it isn't available on either Internet Archive or Project Gutenberg. It would be well worth Featuring too. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:27, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: how much of the text is the Greek content that you want my assistance with? I can definitely do it, but validating takes me such a long time (ask ShakespeareFan about my efforts on Revelations of Divine Love) that if there's more than a few pages of it I don't think I can commit to any reasonable time frame for completing a validation. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:48, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
There are 122 Greek quotations, most of which are single lines or couplets with five to eight words on a line. Most of the chapter is the English translation and notes. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:14, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

The Canadian Soldiers' Song BookEdit

Did we identify the last surviving author for this? Was looking to see if we could apply a date for expiry in do not move to Commons. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:30, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: we did not, but it does contain stuff by Irving Berlin (d. 1989) as well as a number of authors with dates of death unknown. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 01:06, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
Percy Greenbank (d. 1968) is the last-surviving non-American author I have identified so far (content by American authors is PD in source country). —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:46, 24 February 2020 (UTC)