User talk:John Vandenberg/Archive/2008-2

Active discussions

The Book of the Thousand Nights and a NightEdit

Right, they are too large. I hope I'll find some time to break them into smaller sections one of these days. unsigned comment by Nights (talk) 08:39, 21 May 2008.

Hey, how did you manage to edit them so quickly?? :) Nights 22:42, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I have User:JVbot, which does my bidding. John Vandenberg (chat) 22:44, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

How does it add page numbers? Like, every 2000 chars? unsigned comment by Nights (talk) 08:53, 21 May 2008.

I dont know what you mean; Wikisource doesnt automatically add page numbers. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh, so you did add the page numbers manually! Then I'll ask it again: how did you manage to do it so quickly? :) Nights 03:48, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Are you referring to The Story of King Shahryar ? I didnt do that; it was done by Eclecticology (talkcontribs) in July 2007 John Vandenberg (chat) 04:00, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I guess you can remove the "incomplete work" tag. unsigned comment by Nights (talk) 08:56, 21 May 2008.

Done. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Re:Thus Spake ZarathustraEdit

Actually I was transferring work from image to text. I'm partially doing this to enhance my understanding of the text, but I can always switch to copy/past work if you wish me to. Jocke Pirat 01:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Abroad with Mark Twain and Eugene FieldEdit

Okay, I just figured out what was going on with the text--the misalignment, that is. I've added pages 42 and 44 since the OCR text was uploaded; hope I haven't messed things up. (I haven't read this volume in years, so it's almost new to me, and I'm really enjoying getting the text up. This is a project I really want to help with.)Sbh 03:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


Sorry about that - I thought only the info box should be kept in the talk page, when all problems have been sorted, and especially if the text is due to become featured. If I archive it, where do I do that? diego_pmc 09:56, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

No worries. I think it is best to keep the old discussion there for the moment, and archive it once the text becomes featured. We should probably add "archive old discussion" as part of the process of moving a text to featured status. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:00, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Two poems by John Masefield - Griffes.djvuEdit

Is this a useful item? It contains the text of two poems by Masefield - "An Old Song Re-sung" and "The Sorrow of Mydath" (both on my to-do list) - with musical settings. In my experience, such settings are not reliable sources for the texts of poems. Notoriously, one of Masefield's best-known poems, Sea-Fever, begins "I must down to the seas again" but the sheet music has "I must go down to the seas again" (which always irritates me when I accompany that song on the piano). If the object is to provide photographic verification, and if copyright allows, I can upload photos of the 1932 Collected Poems.--Poetlister 20:55, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Of course it is useful. Perhaps not as the authoritative source for Masefield's work, but it is authoritative for the two derived works by Griffes, which will be additions to Wikisource:Sheet music. If you dont like these musical setting, then you can explain why on the talk pages. :-)
There are 206 texts on, so you will probably find a complete set of pagescans of an edition which is out of copyright in the US, and has the wording you seek. The 1932 edition is most probably not out of copyright as he does not meet {{PD-1996}}. John Vandenberg (chat) 22:45, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


Hi, I would like to ask you a question about the prose style. How do you implement it on another Wikisource? If you don't know, please point me someone who does. Thanks in advance. diego_pmc 08:55, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Only an admin can implement it, and the implementation will depend on how the site is already set up. See MediaWiki:Common.css section ".prose" John Vandenberg (chat) 23:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the greetingEdit

Thanks for the greeting. --Selket 16:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


Now how do I add this image to Wikisource so we can do the OCR? --Mattwj2002 01:18, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

request to extract DjVu textEdit

Might I prevail upon JVbot to populate Index:The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 Volume 2.djvu? I replaced the djvu on Commons with one that has embedded OCR. Thanks! Tarmstro99 11:10, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Upload underway. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
same again with Index:The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night - Volume 1.djvu, please? I ran the original through any2djvu, but the output file size was identical to the input file, which makes me think it already had embedded OCR text. Tarmstro99 01:41, 6 June 2008 (UTC) texts already have an OCR layer, and any2djvu doesnt appear to do much if there is an existing text layer. The OCR performed by far exceeds the quality of the OCR done by any2djvu.
I had a quick look at that djvu, and I think the text should be copied from the individual pages listed at The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night, which is proofread text from gutenberg. Many of those pages have original text page numbers, so I might be able to automatically move the text across. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:05, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
definitely yes, if that text has made it all the way through the PG process it's surely more reliable than any OCR. If you figure out how to automate the process of extracting text from The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night/Volume 1 and dropping it into the corresponding page at Index:The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night - Volume 1.djvu, please let me know—I’m doing precisely that sort of work laboriously by hand at the moment, using the text already posted under The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787/Volume 3/Appendix A to back-fill the djvu at Index:The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 Volume 3.djvu. Tarmstro99 02:19, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Source textEdit

I will work on the New Testament. But what is the chosen source text for the translation? NA27?--Fiat Lux 11:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Welcome note :)Edit

Hi, and thanks for the welcome! I'm not new to Wikipedia and family; I just happened to be here and not logged in when I saw the poem tag. It looks like that's the sort of thing I want for my own MediaWiki installation (with a spot of help from CSS).

You'll find me on Wikipedia (and elsewhere) under the name Rosuav, when I'm logged in. 05:21, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for saying hi.
The <poem> tag works on most WMF projects that I have come across, but it is most readily used here, as formatting is an integral part of contributing to Wikisource.
If you are wanting to see some nice presentation with wiki syntax, I suggest you check out A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force. --John Vandenberg (chat) 06:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Montaigne's essaysEdit

Hi, thank you for welcoming me. (Nobody welcomed me to Wikipedia!) Thanks also for fixing anything that was wrong with The Light Princess. I have a question. I'm reading Montaigne's essays (Florio translation) at the moment - not from cover to cover, obviously, but skimming through them. I came here last night just out of curiosity to see if they were at Wikisource, and found the page Montaigne's Essays. That page seems to be just a table of contents. There's no content in any of the pages. I'd be very interested in adding the essays, but I looked at the history of the page and found that someone called Yann added the titles of the chapters just three days ago. Can I jump right in and start? Or should I leave it to the person who added the chapter titles, so that we don't bump into each other? What happens if two people create the same page at the same time? Thanks. Stratford490 13:10, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Yann probably set up the English page at the same time he was working on the French page. I am sure he will not mind if you start helping, as he is an admin here and on the French project, and thus has many outstanding projects, and there is always a constant stream of new contributions that needs administrative assistance. He will be grateful for the help. He as provided a link to the text at Talk:Montaigne's Essays. Also take a look at these sets of pagescans. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:31, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply (and also for the welcome at Wikipedia). I have started on Montaigne's essays. Perhaps you or someone else could check the headers in Montaigne's Essays/Book I/Chapter I and Montaigne's Essays/Book I/Chapter II. I left the sections blank for previous and next. If someone could fill them in, I'll follow that for the future pages. Thanks. Stratford490 22:48, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Looks great. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:33, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, though actually it was Suicidalhamster who did the more difficult part.[1] Stratford490 19:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Translations policy into it.sourceEdit

I let you know that Italian wikisource follows very strict rules about translations into Italian of sources. They don't host user's translations - they only accept formal, previously paper-published translations.

Therefore, I couldn't publish into it.source my Italian translation of Rarey's booklet. It's a pity... I'll publish it into it.wikibooks , ;-) but I think that it's better let you know about, just to avoid any suggestion by you about publishing original translations there. --Alex brollo 11:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, yes I see that "it" doesnt accept translations. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:08, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

History of Iowa From the Earliest Times to the Beginning of the Twentieth CenturyEdit

Hi Jayvdb,

I was hoping I could get some help with Index:History of Iowa From the Earliest Times to the Beginning of the Twentieth Century. I uploaded the djvu files to the Commons. There are two volumes missing on the Wikisource page. In addition, the two volumes we do have the proofreading is not setup correctly. It looks like the index page was made by hand as well. Any help with this would be great. Also, if you could pop on the IRC chat, I would appreciate it.


Mattwj2002 05:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

How did you obtain the DJVU files?? Yes, I will help, but it wont be until later this week. Could you create the "Index" pages for those Djvu files? I will then try to move the pages across to where the DJVU files are expecting them. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


  The Guidance Barnstar
For checking on an editor with a short contribution history and helping point the way in a friendly manor. Thanks Jeepday 12:17, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
I am sure that if you stick around, you will continue to find that Wikisource is a friendly manor :-) As yet it isnt as well organised as some of the bigger projects, so a little guidance is sometimes helpful. Honestly, I am your slave for this week, due to that gem. You will see why within the week. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
I look forward to enlightenment. Jeepday 16:37, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: pagequalityEdit

I apologize for not doing things the best way. I will move the pages to the correct djvu files at Index:History of Iowa From the Earliest Times to the Beginning of the Twentieth Century Volume 1.djvu if there are no objections. Psychless 15:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Will Vol. 2 be populated with text automatically? I don't see how this could be done. Also, I don't think you can automatically move the pages from Vol. 1. The pages most certainly don't match up (notice there are about 200 more pages in this new version). I'm fine with doing it manually, because I have to make a few changes to all of the pages anyways. Thanks for bearing with me; I certainly won't make those mistakes again :). Psychless 20:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Hmm, decisions, decisions. It's not that much work to copy and paste, so I suppose we should go that route. Alternatively, you could add the OCR text, and editors could copy and paste from the other site if they wish.unsigned comment by Psychless (talk) 08:10, 10 June 2008.

1911 Encyclopædia Britannica/Mint - QuestionsEdit

I am thinking that 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica/Mint may need to be split, but I am not sure and if it does need to be split I have not seen where the Wikisource:Style guide talks about the consensus of practice for splitting long pages. Also do you know if there is a specific naming convention for uploading images to, or where to find it? Jeepday 20:48, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Response at my talk Jeepday 22:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


What is the significance of the red ! in front of some edits, on Special:RecentChanges? Jeepday 23:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

See Help:Patrolling John Vandenberg (chat) 23:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Joan of ArcEdit

Would you check these four contributions Special:Contributions/Jeepday

  1. 01:53, 11 June 2008 (hist) (diff) Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc/Translator's Preface‎ (→Complete and formatted) (top)
  2. 01:49, 11 June 2008 (hist) (diff) Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc/Translator's Preface‎ (links)
  3. 01:41, 11 June 2008 (hist) (diff) Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc‎ (/Translator's Preface) (top)
  4. 01:39, 11 June 2008 (hist) (diff) Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc‎ (→Complete and formatted)

My current intent is to read the book while proofing it and bringing in the rest of it from

Volume 1 Project Gutenberg
Volume 2 Project Gutenberg

If you have any suggests please let me know, I plan to start where I left off some time tomorrow. Jeepday 01:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Congressional RecordEdit

Obviously the current newsworthiness of the particular item you’ve transcribed here warrants special attention, but I’m naturally intrigued by the possibility of bringing the CR (or other governmental primary source texts that have never been freely available in digital form) into WS. What do you think of tackling one of these at some point, perhaps as a collaboration of the week? Tarmstro99 11:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely! The upload limit on Commons might be a problem at the moment, but if you can suggest a logical way to break them up into smaller chunks, or pick out a few important ones, we could get started. There has been a push to increase the upload limit to 40 MB or higher, so it might be worth waiting. We could work on the United States Reports while we wait! :-)
In a related tale, I went looking for a fairly recent appropriation bill and was unable to find it. Any help there would be much appreciated.
John Vandenberg (chat) 11:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
I found what you’re looking for, assuming the 1911 legislation is the “fairly recent” appropriation you had in mind. Tarmstro99 13:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Amazing. I had tried to find them at the LOC site, but could only find the ones that they had indexed in their topical collections. Now I'll have to have another squiz at the site to see how you did that! John Vandenberg (chat) 13:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Author:Sant Sri Asaramji BapuEdit

Hi Jayvdb, This work of his is not copyrighted and I have confirmed this with him.

The author has also put this work on :


which is again free of any copyrights.

I think the issue is now resolved. The banner should be removed now !--Rohitom 12:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Jayvdb--Rohitom 12:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

index questionEdit


I finally finished The Western Mail/24 December 1897/The Abrolhos tragedy. Had a go at an index page, which is something I'd never tried before; seems to have worked out okay: Index:The Western Mail/24 December 1897/The Abrolhos tragedy. Would you mind having a quick look? Is there any way to link to the index page from the full text document?

Hesperian 14:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Looks good. I have changed it to use {{Page}}, which includes [page] links. John Vandenberg (chat) 20:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks; "best practice" moves so fast here, there's always something new. I'm going to have to figure out djvu next. Hesperian 23:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the greetingEdit

Hi, Just to let you know I mainly edit at WP, but if I find something interesting I will add it here no doubt about it. My only concern is not to do something wrong. c u around (probably asking a question) A.Cython 09:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

ProofreadPage questionEdit


I've been doing some proofreading of Index:Wind in the Willows.djvu, but each time I save the page, the updated proofread status doesn't register. I validated the first few pages of the work as well as 22. None of those pages indicate that they are validated. In fact, pages which had the PageQuality template on them for some reason no longer do after I make my changes. Am I doing something wrong? (When I validate the page, I select the green button near the edit summary, but it doesn't put the green bar up top nor does it add the page to Category:Validated.—Zhaladshar (Talk) 12:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

When does discussion of provenance become too encyclopedic for Wikisource?Edit

Sorry to bother you again. Can you give your opinion on the works section of Author:Francisco Pelsaert? His Batavia journal has made it into English in six different ways:

  1. 1629 Dutch journal -> 1648 Dutch pamphlet -> 1663 greatly abridged French book chapter -> 1705 English book chapter (PD)
  2. 1629 Dutch journal -> 1648 Dutch pamphlet -> 1663 greatly abridged French book chapter -> 1766 English book chapter (PD)
  3. 1629 Dutch journal -> 1648 Dutch pamphlet -> 1663 greatly abridged French book chapter -> 1859 English book chapter (PD)
  4. 1629 Dutch journal -> 1648 Dutch pamphlet -> 1897 English newspaper article (PD)
  5. 1629 Dutch journal -> 1963 English book chapter (still under copyright)
  6. 1629 Dutch journal -> 1998 English report (still under copyright)

I think it is proper that all five of these English works be attributed to Pelsaert, but because the provenance situation is so complicated, I am concerned that my attempt to do so may have crossed the line into "transwiki to Wikipedia" territory. Your opinion would be appreciated. Hesperian 13:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks.... and asking for your opinionEdit

First of all, thank you for being so a good and patient tutor in my first tries to understand wikisource tricks working into rarey's booklet. I'm going to work into it.wikisource now, but they have to implement needed templates for djvu files.

In the meantime, I found a great horsemanship book to upload here: "Equitation" by H. De Bussigny, [2]; I'd like to use that interesting book to test my ability - t.i. to do all by myself.... the only mean to learn really. Do you think that it is a good idea?--Alex brollo 22:46, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

If you can find an Italian book on, I will be happy to do the initial set up required on it.WS, if you can help me with any language barriers I face over there.
Good luck with setting up the DJVU here. The first step is to determine what nationality "Henry L. de Bussigny" is; if he is American, the DJVU file can be uploaded to commons:, otherwise it will need to be uploaded here. John Vandenberg (chat) 22:53, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for encouragement. But I can't understand your notice about relationship between nationality and Commons hosting of djvu file. Can you give me the link to any guideline/talk where the issue is discussed? I'm thinking about the use of proofread extension for translations too (t.i., using the original image as a source for any translation) and it would be a great advantage to upload any source into Commons, to share widely the images without any need to upload multiple copies of them.--Alex brollo 07:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Commons only accepts works that are free of copyright in the country of origin, and free of copyright in the U.S. So, before any book can be uploaded to Commons, the nationality of the author must be known. In the case of the Henry L. de Bussigny 1922 book, I suspect it is "PD in the US because it was printed before 1923" ({{PD-1923}}). If the author is a U.S. citizen, then it is PD worldwide. John Vandenberg (chat) 07:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
VERY difficult to find bio data about De Bussigny! But I read fro his own book:

From eight to seventeen, I practiced the precepts of Comte d'Aure in various riding-schools. At seventeen, I entered the French cavalry. I was at the battle of Solferino in 1859. In 1860, I was fighting in Syria; and in 1861, in Morocco. From 1862 to 1867, I was with Maximilian in Mexico. [...] Experiment with different methods is, however, nearly impossible in the army; so that it was only after I came to the United States in 1872, and, as a civilian, became proprietor of riding-schools, manager of schools and riding-clubs, head instructor in New York and Boston [...]

An interesting life... inherently the proof of a good horsemanship. ;-)
Can this be sufficient to go on? --Alex brollo 09:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Based on your info, and my own investigation, I think it is safe to assume he was a U.S. citizen by the time it was published, and it looks like it was first published in the U.S., so I think that it is safe to upload it onto Commons. I am pretty sure he was alive beyond 1923.
btw, there are a few articles on NYT that mention him. I think you need to register to access the PDFs. John Vandenberg (chat) 09:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Equitation.djvu startedEdit

Something is running at Index:Equitation.djvu. My trip started! :-) --Alex brollo 05:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Give me a few minutes and I will upload all of the text for you. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I see... Thank you! --Alex brollo 06:32, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Another question. There's come trick/convention to mark the place of pictures/drawings? I moved their captions into heather; and I'm going to collect all the pictures/drawings into a self-made, second djvu file (much more confortable to upload into Commons) linked with the source, original one. Another idea (next time) could be to append retailed jpegs into the original djvu file... I've to look again at some good existing books from djvu sources--Alex brollo 00:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
{{page contains image}} records that the images still needs to be extracted from the page. Typically these images are individually uploaded to Commons, rather than being bundled into a DJVU file, which is an interesting idea. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:14, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I posted a question into Commons. My idea is to upload a derived Equitation_images.djvu file, but perhaps some better trick could be found. --Alex brollo 07:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Equitation started tooEdit

I started Equitation too, with a notice to help with comments/suggestions into talk page. I added there a mention and an example about Image:Equitation_images.djvu file, where all the book's drawings/pictures are collected. --Alex brollo 07:09, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The mystery of page link solvedEdit

I noted that when using {{Page}} template to transclude totally or partially Proofread pages into logical pages, the [[Page]] link is superimposted to the text with bad graphics. I discovered then that this van be avoided using <div class="prose"> tag at the beginning of logical page. So I'll go on with such style from now and I'm using it into Equitation.--Alex brollo 10:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, OKEdit

I saw the Feb. date and figured whatever discussion was over already. I guess a glacial pace is in keeping with the project logo :-P -- Kendrick7 00:32, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Ha, ha! Two opinions isnt enough to make the right decision; add your thoughts! John Vandenberg (chat) 00:40, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


Hope you don't mind me messaging you on here as well as replying on my page. You said about trying to find the scans of all of Rivers's works. I have scans of most of his articles and have the other articles / books in hard copy avail. to scan. Would you like me to send them to you or something? --Pudupudu 01:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for the invitation to work on the WikiBible. I took a look at it some weeks ago and was impressed by the amount of work put into it.

The Old Testament work is on hold while we see how the New Testament will be received once it's available later this summer.

BTW, what are the textual basis conventions for the WikiBible? Is the New Testament limited to the Nestle-Aland 27, or is it more free? And what of the Old Testament? BHS, or a mixture of BHS/LXX/DSS, etc?

Best, Teclontz 15:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

You're the go-to guy...Edit

The 1928 w:Malleus Maleficarum translated by w:Montague Summers (d. 1948) would sadly still be copyrighted, correct? Death+50 wore off in 1998, but two years earlier the UK changed to Death+70? Or is there a potential loophole that'll let me add this? Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:John McCain and Author:Barack Obama 00:43, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I cant see a loophole. The UK change in 1995/1996 was also retroactive, so the only loophole is works published before 1900s. More templates are needed for the UK; I was hoping to set them up over the weekend, but alas, the weekend is too short (he says at 1am). John Vandenberg (chat) 15:04, 22 June 2008 (UTC)


Please see and comment at User_talk:Jeepday#DJVU, Jeepday 22:38, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, that was very helpful Jeepday 11:02, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
When Page:Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc.djvu/11 is transcluded to Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc/Translator's Preface, the "page link" over writes the first few letters of the first sentence. Is there something I should be doing different or is this because of some viewing preferences I have set? Jeepday 11:15, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
It is because the {{Page}} template needs to be smarter. Someone needs to work out a better place to put those "[page]" links. I have tweaked that page to show how you can work around this bug as an interim solution. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:23, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I see. I could probably just go through and add <div style="margin-left: 3em"> under each of the header templates in the book, the </div> would be redundant because there is nothing after it the needs to have the margin removed after being added. (which would make for a quick copy and paste fix) Jeepday 19:57, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Equitation half done - Request for a commentEdit

I'm going ahead with Equitation and I feel that I need a comment by you or by another experienced user. Can you take a look please, or address me to another "tutor" if you haven't the needed time? Have I to post a "request for comments" into the Village Pump perhaps? Thanks! --Alex brollo 05:45, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

The Endeavour Journal of Sir Joseph BanksEdit

Check it out - finally finished! :-) giggy (:O) 02:39, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Very nice! You should add "{{wikisource|The Endeavour Journal of Sir Joseph Banks}}" on various related articles on Wikipedia! John Vandenberg (chat) 03:36, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
w:Joseph Banks contains the wikisource-author template, and a link to this particular page in the References section. I don't think there's an article on it. I've added a link for him to his Commons page, though. giggy (:O) 03:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
w:Endeavour and w:Journal might be good places to mention it, or mention the corresponding Wikisource index. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


I replied you here. Thanks!--Alex brollo 06:51, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Popups gadgetEdit

Can you change the description from "notoriously huge tool" to simply popups? It's much more descriptive that way. Thanks, Maxim 12:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:04, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! Maxim 14:18, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


The text for "Seventeen" by Booth Tarkington has chapter titles. Are chapter titles, when available, generally included on Wikisource? How does one format it? (The first chapter is called "William", would it be "[[/Chapter I: William|Chapter I: William]]"?) Chantessy 13:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Lays of BoethiusEdit

The page is on the to-do list of some spambot operator, it keeps being edited from open proxies with mesages like this. (The same thing is happening on other wikis, see for instance [3].

It might be worth concidering semi protecting the page for some weeks. Thank you. --Jorunn 08:43, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Silly edits removed, and page semi protected. Thanks! John Vandenberg (chat) 08:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


I don't recall having said thank you for moving all the A Course in Miracle pages. So, thank you! : ) --Emesee 05:44, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Always a pleasure. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:21, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Fear and TremblingEdit

A while back, you demonstrated at User_talk:Acousticsam that the Lowrie translation of Fear and Trembling was still under copyright. I deleted it, and the matter was closed, but as you can see it is now a blue link again. I'm not sure if we're dealing with the Lowrie translation this time. Do you want to look into it? Hesperian 03:50, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I pulled out the text of section "I" from the Lowrie translation, added it into the current section "I" and did a diff. Very different. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:36, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
A quick Google Books search turns up [4], Selections from the Writings of Kierkegaard, translated by Lee M. Hollander, published 1960. A Library of Congress search shows the first record for Selections from the Writings of Kierkegaard being published is 1923, and lists Lee Milton Hollander as living 1880-?. A search on the renewals at Stanford show a renewal for the 1960 edition, but not the 1923 edition. As the LoC gives "Austin, Tex., The University [1923]" as the publication information for the 1923 edition, it's quite likely that edition is PD, even if any changes in the 1960 edition aren't. What Wikisource has is clearly Hollander, but whether it's the 1923 edition or not is unknown. (If it is, the 1960 edition starts in the exact same way.)--Prosfilaes 00:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, this was discussed at Author talk:Søren Kierkegaard. I have created Author:Lee Milton Hollander with a link to the djvu. The DJVU needs to be uploaded onto Commons, and Index:Selections from the writings of Kierkegaard.djvu created. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:49, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

United States Statutes at LargeEdit

What do you think of doing it this way? I pulled the various scans together into a single index page, which involves a little extra effort at the front end, but produces a single index page for the entire document even though the source file is too big to put on Commons. If this looks OK, then your bot can go ahead and populate the pages at Index:United States Statutes at Large Volume 1 - Congress 1-2.djvu and Index:United States Statutes at Large Volume 1 - Congress 3-5.djvu (and those pages can thereafter be turned into redirects to the single consolidated index page). If it doesn’t look OK, then let’s change it. :-) Tarmstro99 14:21, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

That is beautiful. I'll set the bot in motion either tomorrow or over the weekend. John Vandenberg (chat) 15:20, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Equitation finished!!Edit

Ok, Equitation is finished (t.i., finished as any wiki work is finished... ;-) ). All Index pages are yellow, and all texts and images are transcluded into logical version.

Now I'm exporting chapters into a [Google Document], an excellent tool for cooperative, rough Italian translation, and actively searching for revisors to validate proofread pages here and for Italian translators there; I posted an announce into the talk page of the Wikipedia equine project and into the Italian analogue, and I'm trying to pull some friends into wiki world (i.e., Kiffar). I've been really amazed to see that wikisource is not so well known by wikipedia users (but perhaps I didn't understand the question I got into wikipedia....).

Now I'm going to have a pause, my forum and my website are completely uncared from weeks! Thanks for your valuable help. I'll try to export anyting I learned here, mainly from your suggestions, into it.wikisource. It has been a very interesting experience. Wikisource seems just "my home", while I was not sufficiently bold to work into wikipedia, nor my English was sufficiently good. --Alex brollo 06:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I am glad that we have stolen you from Wikipedia! In such a short time you have done two works!
I suggest that you read these two papers soon: WS:WBFAQ#Why use a wiki?
I'll respond in more detail later. John Vandenberg (chat) 07:02, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I took a fast look, I found it a very complex topic. But I discovered a group of eng-ita translators, some of them are members of and I'll ask them for some tutoring.
In the meantime (without any knowledge of current wiki prejects and talks about translations) I was thinking about a very simple tool, t.i. a variant of Proofread page, with a read-only transclusion of the text/of the page to translate on the right of the window, just where the image lies in the original version. I guess, it could be done rather simply from Proofread model. --Alex brollo 11:23, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I've got this weekend to play ... ill come back with a proposed translation approach for you to consider, based on our Proofread tool. John Vandenberg (chat) 11:34, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Obviuosly the proofread tool could be used for translations too just as it is... just using the same djvu, Commons-loaded original file into another wikisource, or a new djvu file obtained from the logical version of the book.... it's a pity that my Italian wikisource community has no interest - so far - into translations. I'd like to test this very simple idea. If you think about, all the proofread settings (proofreading, validation, and so on) could be perfect for translations too! And all the original wiki markup could be used again... --Alex brollo 14:14, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I have a plan etched out... but I am short of time tonight. John Vandenberg (chat) 14:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
In the meantime I'll browse a little more The Internet Archive for some other interesting horsemanship book. Take all the needed time .... --Alex brollo 21:25, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Short ParagraphsEdit

Hello -- I have altered some paragraphs so they will be readable. Many of the articles are a single paragraph from beginning to end, and it is impossible to train the eye on them. It is also discouraging for the reader to wade into a lot of grey space.

The articles should not be a museum piece, to see what people were looking at in 1911. Even if it were, I am sure the experience of viewing a paper page and the experience of viewing a monitor are completely different.

By breaking up a long, continuous paragraph and putting some daylight between shorter ones, it is possible to keep one's place on the page, and the article actually gets read, rather than admired for its antiquity. 19:02, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, regarding keeping pages like the original, I notice that a lot of the 1911 original pages have been deleted, and replaced with text that is either un-encyclopedic, or just poetry.Genedoug 20:13, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Can you give me an example of one that has been deleted? John Vandenberg (chat) 22:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

margin troubleEdit

Hi again,

I have been transcribing a document that makes use of a mix of indents, hanging indents and no indents; see, for example, Page:Transactions of the Linnean Society of London, Volume 10 - p. 367.jpg. Whereas I usually ignore these when transcribing text, they contain information in this case, so I have used the text-indent and margin-left properties to capture them. This works fine until I come to transclude all the pages into Transactions of the Linnean Society of London/Volume 10/An Account of a new Genus of New Holland Plants named Brunonia, at which point the text looks fine but the page numbers in the margins are all wiggly. Any suggestions on how to handle this?

Hesperian 01:05, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

sorry, I do not know. I guess this has to do with the 'page template.... perhaps you should ask jayvdb ThomasV 13:07, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay, will do; thanks. Hesperian 13:14, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I think that is because the <div> tags used on each pages have different left-margin values. i.e. the "[ 267 ]" is "position:absolute; left:1em", however the containing div where it resides has a different left-margin to the other ones. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:42, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I think I understand... but that doesn't mean I have any idea what to do about it. :-( Hesperian 13:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
It is too late on this side of the desert for me to look at it. Struthious Bandersnatch (talkcontribs) might be able to help; otherwise, ill take a look at it tomorrow. John Vandenberg (chat) 14:19, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
No worries; it's too late for me too ;-) G'night. Hesperian 14:25, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Equitation featured: a long way...Edit

I read again the Manual of Style and I realized that Equitation is finished, but far from "perfect". No matter, I'll work a little more using Template:Small-caps, formatting second order and third order headings, and so on. I'd like to list Equitation into featured text candidates (the main problem will be valitation... but I'm searching for help and in the meantime incouraging people to come and see wikisource environment, I discovered that wikipedians too don't know it!). As I told you otherwhere, I wrote on Commons a Commons:Equitation images djvu article, just to test djvu images categorization. --Alex brollo 06:52, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

If you keep proofreading Index:A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism, ill do some more proofreading of Index:Equitation.djvu. You don't need to add pages that are not uploaded, as i will be automatically uploading them, when I get time! :-) John Vandenberg (chat) 07:43, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
OK! As you guessed for sure, I chose such book because of topic (science; I can't appreciate literature!) and because is particolarly excellent opportunity to learn something more. As I told you, I'm going to use Notetab for some external edit, but perhaps I'll use some python or some php routine, just to avoid forgetting anything about banal programming... --Alex brollo 12:20, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
My present comment about the Treatise: GASP!
Why not a treatise on bees or butterflies life? ;-)
A suggestion, I see the need of a specific "Manual of style" for such a terrible book, can we add our suggestions/directives into its Index_talk page? I just added the mention of a new, useful, simple (... and undocumented so far) template to obtain numbered formulas (I found a comment about its need just after I wrote it!)--Alex brollo 00:05, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Insects? or Mammals? John Vandenberg (chat) 05:41, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I was jocking.... Treatise first. A sentence much better than the famous "Business first". ;-) --Alex brollo 07:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Help:Mathematics and Wikisource: fractions and functions needs a facelift. :-)
I think it should be split into several helpful pages.
John Vandenberg (chat) 07:17, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Category:1864? birthsEdit

, which you created, has been requested for speedy deletion. Hesperian 15:14, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The only article in it has been removed and should not be back, see Author talk:Louise Charlotte Garstin Quesada, I could have left a better note in the summary. Jeepday (talk) 16:20, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
  • RE:Diff Better information will come when we have more eyes. Besides, the birth year is mostly unimportant - it is the death year that is critical, so having it in Category:? deaths is the objective..
  • I don't understand, what is the importance of the death year if all the know works are published before 1923 in the US? Also it would seem to me that particularly with less proficient and less well know authors the date of birth would be highly important to identify the the person, as the date of the authors birth is often listed during their life time, providing many more opportunities for the documentation of the birth date to be captured in combination with their works, while the date of death may never be captured in combination with a reference to their work. Take my recent search at Author talk:Charles H. Dant, as example. The author appears to have passed sometime between 1903 and 1918, but it likely that we will never have a date of death for the person who authored Distinguished Churchmen in 1902. Currently it looks like the only method for finding the date of death would be to physically look through 15 years of London paper archives from 1903 to 1918 and even then it the date could be prior to or after that range, or the death may not have even been documented. Jeepday (talk) 11:31, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
As you can see from this, there are works that are post-1923, so the translators nationality and year of death are critical.
At the moment it isnt efficient for us to look beyond the web, however as we grow, we will have increasing numbers of librarians and historians joining us and being willing to put in some hours to dig up these details, if they are prominently displayed as "to be solved".
As an example of a critical case, the works of Author:Ella Mary Edghill and much of The works of Aristotle have no firm copyright status, because these details are missing. Yet, those works are available all over the place. See Wikisource:Possible copyright violations/Archives/2007-11 for details. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:22, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I see, thanks :) Jeepday (talk) 12:37, 5 July 2008 (UTC)


Tres sexy, that {{subpage-header}} template - is there no way to make it call the author though I suppose, from the main page's template? :( Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:John McCain and Author:Barack Obama 23:09, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it could do that. There is/was a discussion about headers on WS:S recently. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Latin wikisourceEdit

Hi John. I started that work you set me as a "gentle introduction" to wikisource. I left a message on your Latin wikisource page about words breaking between pages. Do you know how that is handled, or where the best place is to ask a question about that? Carcharoth 06:38, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I see from Rusk note of 1951 that the pages are stitched together when the final document is made. This would stitch back together words split across pages, presumably? I also see that "no include" tags are used. This has resulted in the person to whom the letter is being sent being omitted from the main document, but still visible at Page:Rusk1.jpg. Is that the right way to do things? Carcharoth 09:01, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, the objective is to accurately transcribe the pages, but also to present in the main namespace a version which is pleasing to the reader. Having the address details wedged between page 1 & 2 doesnt help the reader - it is an artefact of the physical means of communication, the letter. John Vandenberg (chat) 09:10, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
I would be bold and stick the "address" at the top in the main document, but then I suspect wikisource is set up so you can't do that? Maybe there is a place to put "surrounding text" as opposed to main text. Similar to how I presume tables are handled. Seeing how wikisource handles some features of document layouts will be... interesting! Carcharoth 09:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
That can be done using Labelled Section Transcluding, an extension available on many of the smaller wikis. I've done what I think you are suggesting... John Vandenberg (chat) 09:27, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Ah. I see what you mean. I've tweaked it, so that the "Dear" = "Excellency" bit is still there, but yes, that looks really good now. Carcharoth 09:55, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Other questions arisingEdit

  • I'm now validating Page:A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force.djvu/7. Unlike the Latin wikisource, there are links. Does validation also involve checking the links, or what? I would have thought that proofreading and validation focus on getting the transcription right, but at some point checking the links work is also needed. Unfortunately, people can change the destination page, so links that are right today might be wrong tomorrow, but some basic checking should be done. This is the sort of thing I love doing, but quite how to document the highest possible standards for linking, and the most future-proofing ppossible, is something I've never quite worked out. Any advice? Carcharoth 06:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    The text verification process is primarily about the transcription, however the links also do need to work. Our Naming conventions are still very vague, and we have contributors who dont like them and use completely different names. We are too few to bother trying to define a perfect guideline and whip everyone into shape. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:46, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Slightly pedantic, but Page:A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force.djvu/7 is page seven of the scans, but page 2 of the book. It is also difficult to get from the page to the book. I had to use the search tool to find Index:A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force.djvu and the main page A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force (though I should have realised how to do the latter). Ah! I've just spotted the "^" tab that takes people up to the index. Very handy! But I still don't see a link taking people directly to A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force. It also wasn't obvious to me that the link titled "original scanned version" was the one to use to get to the "Index:" page. Anyway, I see that Page:A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force.djvu/7 is page on the index, so that is good. I was worrying that the image scan had "2" at the bottom, but "7" in the page title. Ideally, there would be a way to record on the page itself that it is page two, rather than just saying this on the index. Carcharoth 07:05, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    Regarding navigation, it is unusual for the casual reader to end up at the page, as all incoming links will typically be to the work or the index. The pages in the "Page" namespace are equivalent to the transcriptions in distributed proofreaders system, whereas the pages in the main namespace are the equivalent of the Gutenberg etext. The magic of the Proofread Page is that it melds the two projects (transcription, and presentation/distribution) into one.
    Also, I have added "2" to the bottom of pagescan 7. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:46, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    I'm trying to get to the "2" you added there, but I can't seem to get to this "footer". When I click edit, I can only see the main text, not this "footer". What is happening there? Carcharoth 09:12, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Should we be noting written corrections to typed documents? See Page:Rusk2.jpg, where the word "Dokdo" (second line) has been hand-corrected with a pen. Carcharoth 08:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    I usually note strange things like that on the "Page talk" page, in the hope that someone will one day provide evidence of what it was prior to the handwriting. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:57, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    Done with this edit. Carcharoth 09:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  • I still think page numbers should be noted somewhere. Page:Rusk3.jpg has a "-3-" on the page, and that should be on the transcript. Simply "Rusk3" in the filename may not be sufficient in all cases. Carcharoth 08:44, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    I have updated Rusk note of 1951 to display the page numbers. If you want them recorded on the page itself, see my addition of "2" to the bottom of pagescan 7. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:57, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    Thanks. See also my note in the Latin bit a section above. Carcharoth 09:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Made my first correction. As it was only minor, I still validated it. See here. Is that the right way to do this? Carcharoth 08:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    Looks good. John Vandenberg (chat) 09:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Ah, you are here! Might start edit conflicting. I noticed stuff at the bottom of Page:Rusk4.jpg. Is that later annotation or original stuff, and should it be transcribed regardless? Also, although the "Dean Rusk" thing here is typed. Presumably there is a way to note when something is a signature, rather than a typed name? Carcharoth 08:54, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    If you think it is important, transcribe it. If it isnt important enough, or isnt able to be verified, wrap it in "noinclude" so it only turns up in the Page: page. For signatures, we usually cut an image and use that instead of text. See United States patent X1. John Vandenberg (chat) 09:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Oh, and thanks for answering my questions! Don't mind me adding more - I don't mind waiting until you have time to answer them. The next one is about Page:H.R. Rep. No. 94-1476 (1976) Page 216.djvu. The text is sideways. No fair! :-) Carcharoth 09:50, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    I have only proofread a few pages of this work, so I havent yet found the most efficient means. I have found Firefox extension "Rotate Image" to be useful, but to be effective you need to click on the image link at the top of the image, and then rotate it. That means you need to open a second tab to view the text, which makes proofreading more difficult. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:21, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    Thanks for the e-mail tip. Might do that if I can set up some good filters to sort things properly. The pages we were talking about was already validated, so I did Page:H.R. Rep. No. 94-1476 (1976) Page 303.djvu instead. But I noticed for this, and many of the other pages, that there are two page numbers. In this case "303" and "118". 303 is the scan number. 118 is the page number. Shouldn't the whole document be updated to show this? I'm not going to do it because it looks like too much work for someone who has only just started. Right, I'm off to read Wind in the Willows! :-) Carcharoth 11:49, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  • I proofread Page:Wind in the Willows (1913).djvu/163 (was rather short!) - but I noticed it didn't have the "<" and ">" bits at the top. Any reason for this? Any way to fix it? I also noticed that Page:Wind in the Willows (1913).djvu/164 is a blank page! Are these kept to preserve the numbering? Can I mark it proofread!? BTW, I assume that prrofreading and validation must always be done by different people, right? Carcharoth 11:55, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    The "<" and ">" disappear sometime; it is a known bug. Blank pages are necessary to preserve the page numbering, and the software prevents the same person from doing proofreading and verification. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:50, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  • I added italics mark-up to Page:Nietzsche the thinker.djvu/11. Was that the right things to do? Carcharoth 12:12, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    Yes, we want to accurately present the text. You could also add a redlink to Why We Are at War. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:50, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    I intend to go back and do linking at some point. I suspect I would over-link, and I would want to read some guideline on this first, but linking is something I know I would greatly enjoy. I'd like to get to grips with the technical and proofing side of things and those standards first. Carcharoth 23:25, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
    Do what you think is right. I also tend to over-link, but on we have explicitly accepted that even "user contributed Annotations are desirable, for good or ill. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:31, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Publick Occurrences Both Forreign and Domestick - on my screen, the "Numb 1" bit overlaps with the link at top left. I'm also going to avoid this sort of stuff in future, as the "s" stuff really throws me. Carcharoth 23:25, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
    I've fixed the overlap, but the "w:long s" is there to stay, I think (we have had long discussions about this, and there is dissent). John Vandenberg (chat) 23:31, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
    The long s and the archaic language style did my head in. I got halfway through one of the scans, as seen here. Some clear mistakes in transcription - unless the scan we have is not an original - and the change in italics and the 'captitalised' long s is also confusing. Anyway, I've done my best there for now. If I do the rest of that page (it does actually look more interesting), I presume I can mark it as proofread. One question - what is the blue radio button for? Carcharoth 23:45, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Oh, one more thing. Is there a way to transcribe the "large letters" at the beginning of a paragraph, or indeed any other "change in font size". I suspect not, but thought I'd ask. Carcharoth 23:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
    {{Dropcap}}, {{sc}} and many more in Category:Formatting templates. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:00, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
    Oh. Um. Would you have time to show me how to do it for Page:Publick Occurrence (page 1).jpg? No rush, as I'm off soon anyway. Carcharoth 00:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
    Thanks. I've just noticed, though, that the dropped caps aren't displaying properly in Publick Occurrences Both Forreign and Domestick. Changing subject, I've put a "non-long s" version with other modern spellings at Page talk:Publick Occurrence (page 1).jpg. Are such modified texts acceptable and can they be placed anywhere? Carcharoth 10:11, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
    I've fixed the dropcap by altering the display of the images. When they were floated on the right, they funk up web browsers.
    There are two ways to provide a modernisation - translation, and annotation. An example that includes a measure of both is Balade to Rosemounde, where a translation has been provided, and wiktionary links have been added to annotate the translated text. Publick Occurrences is more modern, so it may be sufficient to leave the text as is, and link to wiktionary for the odd word that the average reader wont understand. I've made a change to {{Long s}} to demonstrate a possible solution to that readability issue: it displays as a normal "s" in the main namespace. I'm not sure how others will accept that change, so it might be reverted by the time you look at this.
    As this is a very large work, a "side by side" translation into modern English will be distracting to many readers who have no need for the modernisation, so I suggest that if you want to do a modern translation, you create a separate page in the main namespace (in this case move Page talk:Publick Occurrence (page 1).jpg to Public Occurrences Both Foreign and Domestic. John Vandenberg (chat) 22:39, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
    Thanks for fixing the dropcap. The long-s template seems elegant, but there are around 100 long-s uses on that page alone. Surely this will run up against some template transclusion limit? Carcharoth 11:04, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
    Only one way to find out...? I think that the recent parser update has all but eradicated the problem of too many template calls for Wikisource purposes. Still, that is a lot of template calls, and the markup of {{ls}} within words makes degrades search and there are other negative effects. So, I went looking for a Firefox extension that replaces text, and here is one that works (ſ -> s) and is fairly efficient. The only downside of that extension is it doesnt have an "undo" to restore the text back to the original. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:10, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
    Wouldn't it be better for there to be a preferences option within wikisource? Setting from Latin to English at the Latin wikisource wasn't too difficult (though that was the surrounding boilerplate). Surely having an option to turn long-s on and off on en-wikisource would be possible? Carcharoth 13:40, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
    Anything is possible, and that idea has been floated (It is the reason that SB created the {{ls}} template). That English language on Latin subdomain setting is changing the UI. You want to change the content. I did look into a CSS-approach that could be set in a per userpage CSS, like monobook.css, but it would depend on using a font that displayed an "s" for the unicode "ſ". John Vandenberg (chat) 13:48, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
  • I moved on to Catholic Encyclopedia (1913)/Veni Creator Spiritus, and followed the link on the talk page. Unfortunately, the scan is not very readable. Even at 150%, the smaller text is blurred, and that whacking great watermark doesn't help. I'm tempted to leave that until we get better scans. Is it likely we will get better scans at some point? Carcharoth 00:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
    Nope. We were having to pass all alterations via user:Saint Wiki I, who had a physical copy. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:26, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Publick Occurrences Both Forreign and Domestick says it is incomplete, but it was only three pages (the fourth page was blank). Can the "incomplete" tag be removed? Carcharoth 13:43, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Venetian literatureEdit

Any chance you could assist translating w:Venetian literature from the Italian article, and perhaps opining regarding meta:Requests for new languages/Wikisource Venetian. Feel free to decline if this isnt a topic you are interesting in or wish to be involved in.

Thanks for the offer, but I cant translate from Italian into English. Nor I'm so interested into Italian "sub-languages". There's a growing cultural and "ethnic" (???) division in Italy among provinces, unluckily the interest about local dialects is a part of it, something I don't like at all.

Much better to work about Maxwell's Treatise. Am I a little too bold/intrusive dealing with that difficult work? --Alex brollo 18:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Understood; and, No, your doing fine with that. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Making it upEdit

RE: [diff] Obviously I am inventing this as I go along, if there is already a solution someplace point me to it. Jeepday (talk) 00:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Ive updated the pages and documentation. Thanks for writing that up. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the Hyphenated word fix, but this one does not work, see Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc/Book III/Chapter 13 "and so saved his life. Well, as I have said, the second trial was over, without definite result." is one paragraph, the change is separated by a single space. I have played with adding returns and spaces and they all get absorbed, the only thing that works so far is <br>, and I have not got that to show up as a single white space return yet. I either get a single return with no white space, or a triple return with two white spaces. Have not played with it much yet as I just finished the DjVu upload. Good night, Jeepday (talk) 02:38, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


It seems I stuffed up really badly with The Art of War... I really thought that the sections contained text instead of transclusion. —Dark talk 11:57, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

No worries; it only took 10 mins to fix. The hardest part was making a decision on the full text pages, and I am glad you made a decision on that one. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:24, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

wrong nameEdit

Hi, could you please delete the Sarah Josepha Hale page. I corrected the name here Author:Sarah Josepha Hale. (I can be such a dingbat!!) Thanks. - Epousesquecido 15:41, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. :) - Epousesquecido 01:58, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Index:M. K. Gandhi- Indian Patriot in South Africa.djvuEdit

Jayvdb, can you fix the pagelist on Index:M. K. Gandhi- Indian Patriot in South Africa.djvu. I wish I knew how to fix it. Thanks. --Mattwj2002 23:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Done. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:37, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Index:History of Iowa From the Earliest Times to the Beginning of the Twentieth Century Volume 4.djvu formatting issueEdit

Jayvdb, this doesn't appear to be the correct format for an index page. Do you agree? --Mattwj2002 11:15, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

It is fine. The page numbering of that work is very strange. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:05, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:Easton's projectEdit

I'm trying to revive the Easton's project but for some reason the EBD1897 talk Template only works on its own Template page and Talk:Easton's_Bible_Dictionary_(1897). Could you look at it? Kathleen.wright5 09:45, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I cant see a problem with the template; it also works here.
That said, I dont think we want that talk page header added to the talk pages of all entries. The reality is that nobody is going to want to talk about the entry, and very few are going to want to help. WikiProjects here on Wikisource are more like a relay than a collaboration. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Bot neededEdit

Auxilium! Your bot is needed. - εΔω 17:11, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

PDFs within articlesEdit

Hi, I have found this site with a phenomenal amount of works, especially books, some dating back to the 15th century. For each one there are about five or more formats in which you can download the file, including PDF. Now I haven't taken any look at any of the other formats, but the PDF versions are as close to perfection as possible: vectorized, multi-layered illustrations, every word in the text is digitalized (actual text, not part of the scanned image) and placed individually on the page, I guess so that they would keep the exact same appearance as in the original, and the list could go on.

I would like to place as many works as possible depending on my free time and mood, but I also like to place the PDFs on the articles as they are of a too high quality to be left out. Now, where do you recommend to place the PDF file in the article? diego_pmc 20:19, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

We do not want PDFs from, but we definitely do want the DJVU files they produce, for a variety of reasons. Most importantly, we have been using the DJVU files from to set up transcription projects, resulting in extremely high quality text transcription & presentation. If you want help setting up an djvu project, ill be happy to help - just let me know which work interests you. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:07, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Why should we keep the *.pdf files out? They are in the public domain, so I don't really see the problem. Anyway, here's the first I added: Goody Two-Shoes (1888). I also asked for the people at Commons to extract the *.djvu files. About the project - it might be a good idea - that site contains a lot of old works that not present on WS, that would add value to the project, but I'm not sure i can do anything to help start the wikiproject, with my limited formating skills. And I'm not looking for anything in particular on that site. I just pick the ones that look interesting, but also relatively short, for now, so that I wouldn't spend too much time on a single one.

BTW, can you give me an example of a page where DjVUs are used? diego_pmc 12:01, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

We are already importing many many djvu files from; see transcription projects. e.g. Index:Wind in the Willows (1913).djvu or Index:Best Russian Short Stories.djvu John Vandenberg (chat) 13:40, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
I've set up Index:Goody Two-Shoes (1888).djvu; hopefully by undertaking that small project you will see the benefits of djvu files. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I have added the text on the index page, but I don't understand something. There obviously are advantages to this, but what long term use they have if in order for the search function to give you the Index page you have to type "Index:" first - most people don't know this, especially those who don't contribute, so they can't get to these pages. Also, I haven't seen any of these Index pages being linked to in the text only pages, so again, how's the reader supposed to know about them? Or did I miss something? diego_pmc 15:48, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Hopefully this explains everything. If not, well, ... "Index" pages are not for the readers - they are for proofreading (.. and we have found a number of transcription errors as a result, like "Stop! stop I", where the second "!" was recorded as a "I") and for people who want to verify that the text is accurate.
As an auxiliary benefit, compare the size of the PDF and the DJVU file. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:55, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Myeah. I have uploaded all the cleaned illustrations BTW. But is it really a good idea to place the text like this (transcluded). I mean if it becomes featured the actual text will still be editable - or will the index be protected as well? diego_pmc 06:14, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

With the images right there, the text doesnt even need to be protected. If someone tries to alter the text, everyone can immediately see that the changes are wrong, and will revert the vandalism as soon as it is spotted. If it does become featured, we could protect all of the pages involved. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:19, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I have tried to rearange the images a little. Take a look at these layouts: v1, v2, v3 (current). also if you have anything better in mind, please tell me, or edit the page. diego_pmc 12:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Ah, those are much better than my quick attempt. I'd like to see pagescans of the original edition. Have you seen those anywhere? John Vandenberg (chat) 12:52, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I looked a little and all the results gave me copies of the files found at Why? diego_pmc 13:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

A search on shows many results. this and this look like the two most important prints of early editions. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:33, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Ogh, I misunderstood. I though you were talking about actual scans not just reproduced pdfs/djvus, so that you'd be sure they are accurate. Anyway, good thing you pointed out those - I guess I'll add them. diego_pmc 13:49, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

That would be great; upload the djvu and then create the "Index" page with a corresponding page name, like we did for the last project. I'll definitely help with proofreading again, but I doubt we will get it finished as quickly!
I was curious because the Project Gutenberg etext was very different to the DJVU we have just been working on. Almost all Project Gutenberg etexts are transcribed from the images that are on
John Vandenberg (chat) 14:01, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I have started uploading the files at Commons but I can't upload the *.djvu. It says it's not the right format (but it is). Could you upload it? Please use the filename Image:Goody Two-Shoes (1881).djvu. I have already place the description and everything [5]. diego_pmc 18:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I've uploaded it.
The DJVU upload mechanism can complain viciously for no good reason. All that is required is to reattempt it with blind faith that it will work the second tenth time. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:29, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I also created Index:Goody Two-Shoes (1881).djvu and added a few pages (the actual page isn't created yet). PopularOutcast made a recording of Goody Two-Shoes (1888), which i added to the page. I asked her to do a few minor edits to the audio file, and this will be about it with the '88 edition, I guess. Do you think it meets all featured criteria? diego_pmc 08:01, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

The test for a featured text is whether it can attract the votes of the community (who rarely bothers to vote). I would vote for Goody Two-Shoes (1888) to be featured because I am sick of seeing the X1 patent on the front page. However, as this work is so small, I would like to see the edition provided by gutenberg also available on Wikisource before any edition is featured on Wikisource. That is just my preference. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:59, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I have a question. In this older edition I noticed that a lot of words instead of using lower-case s, they use lower-case f, as in "alfo", "faid", etc. I guess I should keep it like this, right? diego_pmc 14:16, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

It is the w:long s. You can either transcribe it as "s", "ſ", "{{ſ}}" or "{{long s}}". Personally, I like to use "ſ", but everyone has their own opinion on this, and there are good arguments for the alternatives. John Vandenberg (chat) 14:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I think I prefer to use the f-like s too - for authenticity. so I'll have to go through all the pages to replace - if you have time, and you want please replace them when you proofread. Anyway, I have another issue. Take a look at this page. In the lower part of the text there a fraction 3/4. Is it possible to make it not look so bold - make it look more like the rest of the text? diego_pmc 15:03, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


  The Guidance Barnstar
For checking on an editor with a short contribution history and helping point the way in a friendly manner. THANKS SO MUCH! RlevseTalk 00:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

PS-Yes, borrowed the graphic and most of the text, but this was the most appropriate one I found! RlevseTalk 00:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Not only difficult integrals....Edit

... while I'm struggling with TeX and Maxwell's work, I did some work about Notes on equitation and horse training. Far from finished (it's a rather complex case of a USA government translation of a French book), but something has been done.

PS: I FULLY agree with the above message content!--Alex brollo 20:03, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

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