Peace.salam.shalom

Welcome to Wikisource

Hello, Peace.salam.shalom, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for joining the project. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• Help pages, especially for proofreading
• Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource
• Style guide
• Inclusion policy
• Wikisource:For Wikipedians

You may be interested in participating in

• Proofread of the Month
• Monthly Challenge
• Requested texts

Add the code {{active projects}}, {{PotM}} or {{Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your user page and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either

• Wikisource:Scriptorium; or
• Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use! In discussions, please "sign" your comments using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username if you're logged in (or IP address if you are not) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click edit) and place {{helpme}} before your question.

Again, welcome! — billinghurst sDrewth 03:23, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Cross-namespace redirects

Please do not create cross-namespace redirects. If you are unsure about something, then check the help pages, or ask the community at one of the help pages. If it is something that you might think is common and doesn't exist, then there is probably a reason for it, so please do ask the community at WS:Scriptorium. — billinghurst sDrewth 16:24, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

I have no idea what any of those words even mean - but I think it's okay, I'm heading out. Not a very nice place, even when I spend six hours trying to contribute stuff it's just "that's not good enough, you haven't copied the fonts correctly, that book was published in Helvetica font and it doesn't say "sunflower" it says "sunfl-" and then the next page says "ower". Sigh. Anyways, sorry for whatever I apparently screwed up this time. Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 23:15, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Help:Namespace is some information that can assist. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:41, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

OVERTURNED ON REVIEW

Poor Robin's

Hi! I've proofread/validated Poor Robin's and I did the pictures too, since they can be fiddly. It's ready for transclusion, and when that's done, you can add it to {{new texts}} to get it on the front page. I can do either bit for you if you want, but I don't want to deny you the pleasure of the finishing touches! Inductiveload—talk/contribs 12:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Oh, nice - thank you. Is there some easy tool for doing the pictures? Or does it really take 3-5 minutes per picture even just to get the fancy dropinitial A, and the little swirls? I'm not sure what "transclusion" means, but I'm happy to watch how you do it and then I'll add it to {{new texts}}? Also, Page:Poor Robin's True Character of a Schold - 1678.djvu/9, it feels like we should use {{quote}} or something for the part that is allegedly Paracelsus? Oh and you used {{letter-spacing|0.25em|EPITAP|H.}}}} which confuses me why...and why the H is separated? Oh and a newbie suggestion, [[1]] suggests that you should really introduce a {{coverpage}} template similar to {{image missing}} that basically says "this is a coverpage and the user who is proofing it has no idea wtf to do - somebody more experienced should come by eventually and fix it up", because I'm never gonna learn all the codes you used there. Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 17:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

OK so in order:

• Pictures: I do these in GIMP, but I don't have a decent tutorial yet. I made some basic notes here before. Some images are easier than others. These images aren't the easiest because they have fairly light print colour, but on the background is fairly even, which helps (there's a little bit of foxing and text showing through the page, but it's not too bad).
• I'll do the transclusion - that means bringing the content into the main namespace. It'll be at Poor Robin's True Character of a Schold
• For the quote, there is no special formatting in the original so we don't add anything to it. Quite often quotes can be styled a bit smaller, for example Page:The English Historical Review Volume 20.djvu/643 where something like {{fine}} can be used.
• For the letter spacing, the H. is separate because there is no extra space between the H and the .: HELLO. vs HELLO.
• Other templates of use:
  • {{center}}: fairly obvious
  • {{block center}}: centers a block in the page, but the block is internally left-aligned
  • {{x-smaller}}, {{smaller}}, {{fine}}, {{larger}}, {{x-larger}}: font-size templates
  • {{letter-spacing}}, as you saw
  • {{small-caps}} (aka {{sc}}: Small Caps
  • More common templates at Help:Templates
• The table formatting {| ... |} is a bit more complex. You can use {{table missing}} to mark it. Tables are fairly infrequent on title pages. More info at Help:Table is you want to give it a go.
• Re an template for the title page - if this is the last thing needed, the best thing to do is ask for help at WS:Scriptorium/Help or ping me because then you can just get it done rather than punting to a maintenance category that might take a while to be noticed. Or leave it "problematic" and that means someone can see it as needing a bit of work.

Remember, always feel free to experiment. You can make as many experimental pages in your user space (eg. User:Peace.salam.shalom/Sandbox) as you like. And until the pages are transcluded to the main page, you can pretty much make as much of a mess in Page pages as you like! Inductiveload—talk/contribs 20:18, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Hmm actually, seems that you need to be autoconfirmed to edit {{new texts}} because it's a vandalism magnet, being on the front page. So, I made the entry and named you in the edit message. Hope that's OK. Welcome to the front page of Wikisource! :-) Inductiveload—talk/contribs 20:32, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Wrong characters on pages

I noticed your edit on this page, mentioning that the character as originally printed was incorrect. When this happens, you can use the code {{SIC|Engish|English}} to mark the wrong text. (I would do it to show you, but I don’t know what the right character is.) Thank you for editing! I hope that you’ll continue to edit here, even if the templates get to be a bit much at times. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 02:14, 24 November 2020 (UTC).

Oddly Page:A Collection of Esoteric Writings.djvu/220 appears to just be broken after I tried putting in the Sic :\ Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 02:44, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

• My concern was justified, it seems: you have used {{Sic}} (and {{sic}}), which are (for some reason) completely different from {{SIC}}. Only the fully capitalized template works; the other templates do not produce a visual effect (they hide the text). This is probably one of the worst examples of confusing templates on Wikisource. I have changed the templates on that page. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 04:29, 24 November 2020 (UTC).

{{sic}} is intended as a silent flag to future proofreaders and validators. It should be placed immediately following the text it's flagging, rather than wrapping the text. {{SIC}} is intended to flag to the reader that there is a problem with the text. The later displays a "hover-note" when the cursor is paused over the text. These notes do not translate across to extracted eBooks, but the highlighting does. As a result, my own preference is to use the lowercase silent version. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:57, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

It's....alive!

What I just did is called "Match and Split" and is useful to transfer already-proofread text without a scan to a matching scan. It doesn't always work out, but when it does, well it's quite handy! Inductiveload—talk/contribs 07:54, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

...yeah, I was literally just staring at that wondering what the heck just happened, lol...gonna take me some time to process still but looks like a pleasant surprise :D Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 07:55, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Image grid gadget

Hi! Remember the image grid gadget you asked about? Well, check this out:

• User:Inductiveload/index preview.js
• User:Inductiveload/index preview (docs)

Add to your Special:MyPage/common.js:

mw.loader.load("//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User:Inductiveload/index preview.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript");

And let me know if it explodes....

@Xover: you might like this too. Though I can't think of a way to not set off the rate limiter and still have it load fast when the cache is warm, at least once the rate limiter kicks in it throttles back to avoid hammering out doomed requests. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 05:12, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

So you're like a magic wish-granting genie then? That is awesome, will try it out :) Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 05:14, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Without the limit of three and the horrible, ironic consequences! It's been on my list for a while and I actually had the popup previews working already from a previous attempt. :-) Inductiveload—talk/contribs 05:22, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Because I always nag, would it be a simple matter to also allow click-identifying for the TOC, the Title Page, Bibliography, Foreward and Chapter-Starts...even if it doesn't proof the page on some it could still edit the Index: file so the pagelist now shows "71, 71, [Bibliography], 73"?. You know, just while you have the file open and everything ;) 05:24, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Sadly, that's actually substantially harder than it sounds, because the changes have to be inserted into the <pagelist/> tag markup and all sorts of things can go subtly (and not not subtly) wrong there. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 05:31, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

No worries, but in the meantime while I can view your page...after adding that line to my .js, I still don't see any button labeled "grid", and holding down "alt" while clicking a pagenumber in the pagelist does nothing. I assume I'm misunderstnading something Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 05:33, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Sometimes browsers can be really reluctant to reload cached JS. Try a hard refresh (Ctrl-Shift-R in Firefox), but even that sometime fails. The only thing that reliably works for me is opening the Deeloper Tools, going to the settings and selecting "disable HTTP cache when developr tools is open", then refreshing the page. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 05:36, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Still nothing oddly, will try restarting browser though it shouldn't be necessary; I set the about:config file to false...hard refresh...weird. All I have that looks abnormal in the left toolbar when viewing an Index: is "Layout style 1" and if I click it then it changes to Style 2 or Style 3 words...though it doesn't change the page at all. In unrelated news, {{text quality}} looks like the most deprecated template I've found so far, beating out {{Initials}}. It just never got removed from many, many, many pages and says fully completed pages are 25% done, etc. It's even on the subpages of this current work :\ Though Category:Pages locked to preserve their integrity has to be one of the funniest...it's only about ten works, seemingly completely random...maybe they got vandalized on the same date ten years ago? Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 05:50, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Yup, still nothing :( see screenshot Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 06:05, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

OK, try it now, I was missing a dependency on something that didn't go wrong when I served the file locally. Re other things:

• {{text quality}} is from before we had proofread page - it's mostly useful to direct the scan-backing artillery and should be stripped out of scan-back works (the proofread status is what should be used)
• Re. locked, I have no clue. AFAIK at one point, it was envisaged that when "complete", works would be locked as nothing more needed doing to then. It them became rather apparent that routine maintenance requires touching lots of things that are "done" and vandalism has mostly been controlled by other means.
• Re layouts, don't worry too much, that stuff is going to be "improved" soon. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 06:21, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Oh my, that IS nice - started work on Index:Pink and white tyranny A society novel (IA pinkwhitetyranny00stowrich).pdf immediately using your new tool :) Oddly I tried to use IA Upload tool but it said it already existed on Commons (which it did), but not on WS...is there a whole list of IA works on Commons that don't have Index pages created here yet? If so, seems like the sort of thing easy to at least get the Indexes created, etc. k, back to playing with new toy now - marking images :) Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 06:26, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

There are hundreds (thousands? tens of thousands? more?) of files uploaded this year by User:Faebot from the IA. I'm not sure if there's a way to find out if they have Index pages without writing a script.

If you're creating index pages from IA works, turn on the "Import Pagelist" gadget, it'll save you a lot of heartache and gnashing of teeth. Sometime the IA pagelists are a mess, and they always need some massaging, but they're nearly always useful. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 06:34, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

1. Oh good catch, I thought it was just filling in those many fields when creating an Index: but the actual pagelist needs a separate click. Got it now. Also, would {{table missing}} also not be a handy button alongside Raw Image (possibly renamed Raw Img or Image if you need space for a third button?) Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 06:42, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
2. Oh, and ideally in a perfect world when you view the grid of the entire book, either the page outlines would retain red/yellow/blue, or at least the pagenumbers below each image woudl show it? Because otherwise I'm clicking to mark a page as empty that was already marked that way...and triggering an error.
3. Seems I screwed up and didn't understand the difference between {{raw image}} being only for full-page images; will refrain from making that mistake again. Headed afk now, but not a bad idea to consider adding NoText,Table,RawImg,Image or somesuch?

Running headers

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.

Your use of {{rh}} in A Prisoner of the Khaleefa is inconsistent. The centered text isn’t always the name of the book; it can also be the name of the chapter. (See, e. g., here, where the text is “PRISON JUSTICE.”) In addition, the page number needs to be in the template; otherwise, it displays a line after the centered text. There is a template you can use that (perhaps) makes this easier; you can ask Xover (or Inductiveload) about {{rvh}}. But aside from the templates, you are doing well in terms of proofreading; your efforts in that respect are much appreciated. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 22:13, 27 November 2020 (UTC).

I don't fully understand the header space, they pre-populate as-is; I'm not sure why, likewise there is often smallrefs in the footer even though there are no footnotes, etc. I'm never sure how much to change in the header and footer. But I'll definitely start putting the page number inside the template instead of outside. Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 22:15, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

• The header and footer on the individual pages are defined by the “Header” and “Footer” parameters on the index page. In this instance, the header is {{rh||''A PRISONER OF THE KHALEEFA''|}}, and the footer is {{smallrefs}}. Thus, these will be automatically loaded on every page. For the footer, {{smallrefs}} should only be present if there are footnotes; in the header, {{rh}} should be corrected to look like the page, but there are a number of systems in various stages of use that allow for automatic filling of running headers. (I don’t know much about them, but I think they can be quite helpful.) TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:04, 27 November 2020 (UTC).
• An example: on p. 136, the template should look like this: {{rh|136|''A PRISONER OF THE KHALEEFA''}}. On p. 137, it should look like this: {{rh||''A SERIOUS DILEMMA''|137}}. The text on the left should go in the first parameter, the text in the center in the middle parameter, and the text in the right on the third parameter; thus: {{rh|left text|middle text|right text}}. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:11, 27 November 2020 (UTC).

Long s

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.

There are a few different ways of representing long s on Wikisource. Whatever the method, it should be the same across a work. They are as follows:

1. Use the long s character, “ſ.”
2. Use {{ſ}} ({{s}}), which displays the long s character.
3. Use {{ls}}, which shows “ſ” in Page: and “s” elsewhere.
4. Use “s,” ignoring the original character.

It is your choice, if you are the only one proofreading a work. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:30, 29 November 2020 (UTC).

Oh, I had been using {{s|2}} but I like the looks of {{ls}} even better (at risk of triggering a steam locomotive); so it LOOKS normal except on the PAGE format. Cheers Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 03:29, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

For {{ls}}, yes: when looking at the page, you see “ſ;” anywhere else, “s.” On Page:Ancient Accounts of India and China.djvu/44, {{s}} (producing “ſ”) is more appropriate than {{s|2}} (producing “ʃ”); the latter is used (in original printing) for ſ (compare ʃ). Don’t worry about changing the style in the middle of the work too much; some helpful user can run a program to standardise them after you’re finished. You’ve certainly chosen a more difficult work to proofread, with the sidenotes and all, but it does seem interesting. (You seem to have come across a number of the lesser-developed parts of Wikisource recently: abandoned maintenance categories; old, poorly-defined rules; and other such enticements to newcomers.) [Also, as a note: {{tl}} only shows the template; {{tlx}} shows parameters as well.] TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 04:02, 4 December 2020 (UTC).

Inductive is to blame, he showed me how to use Match/Split and I started looking for the oldest badly-formatted texts on Wikisource thinking it would be like 2-3 years old...imagine my surprise to see 15-year old texts that have been tagged nonetheless as needing attention for that long :P Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 04:06, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Only very recently have some people here on Wikisource worked to go through the “silent backlog” of works created before the index system was really developed; thus, many decade+-old works sit somewhere, in a state of some disrepair, until some kindly helpful editor comes along to, at the very least, match and split the pages. (Speaking of lesser-developed parts of Wikisource, the match and split tool isn’t all that easy to use, either.) TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 12:52, 4 December 2020 (UTC).

Medieval ghost stories

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.

Page:English Historical Review Volume 37.djvu/423 contains medieval ghost stories, but they are included only in Latin - I know there is a Latin wikisource, but is there an easy template/category to highlight "Hey, look over here, there's a foreign language work sandwiched in my English work!" to other projects/editors? Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 15:14, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

• I don’t know if this work would qualify, but it likely would. One adds {{Iwpage}} on each page that isn’t in the English language, with the second parameter marking the language (in this case, {{iwpage|la}}). What would then (theoretically) happen is that the text would be proofread in the appropriate language Wikisource. This will involve some coördination with Latin Wikisource editors. The actual notification will have to be completed individually (I believe), but this template notifies local editors that action is being (or should be) taken elsewhere to proofread that section of a work. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 17:26, 4 December 2020 (UTC).
  • Thanks, put a note on the Latin wikisource. Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 22:18, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Re: header

I assume you refer to the change of “X” to “T”—that is a change in progress. “X” means that a pagelist needs to be created; “T” means that a work is completed finished (validated); and “C” means that a work is ready to be proofread. As for {{Journal of the Asiatic Society of Bengal}}, that template, and templates like those, which have a direct hyper-link to index pages without any other text, are only appropriate on index pages; they are in most cases not used when a work is transcluded. The reason I did not include many of the listed scans on the main page is that the scans were broken—either they are missing pages, plates, or whole sections of the work in question. (See, as an example, {{Works of the British Poets volumes}}.) TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 19:03, 5 December 2020 (UTC).

Thanks, final question for the day - somebody told me at some point about some <code> I was supposed to insert on pages like [[2]] where "one work ends mid-page, and the next work begins mid-page" and I forgot to put it on my userpage list of helpful copy/pastes...any chance you know what I'm referencing? Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 19:18, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

You are talking about sections (LST). To start a section, create a new line with ##section_name##. When you transclude a work, you can transclude only sections of a work, as follows:

• To transclude from a section, add fromsection=section_name
• To transclude to a section, add tosection=section_name
• If you are transcluding a single section of a single page, use include=page_number onlysection=section_name

When you add a new section, it automatically ends the old section. If you want something to be excluded from sections, create a new line with #### before the text you want to exclude. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 20:39, 5 December 2020 (UTC).

• You would not be able to review works on the Internet Archive using the tools available on Wikisource without first uploading them here. I check all files I wish to upload manually before I upload. For “Statement of the Chaush prior to battle,” you made two mistakes: first, you used from=153 instead of include=153, causing the entirety of the work after 153 to be transcluded; and you tried to transclude “sanjayPoem” instead of “sanjarPoem.” I have fixed these problems. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:17, 5 December 2020 (UTC).
  • For selecting a specific file, I first look for a scanning entity (university library &c.) that I know from previous experience to consistently upload complete, high-quality scans. I do not see any here. I would then look through the scans that are present to find one of at least decent quality that contains all pages. I do this manually, and I do not know of a tool to make this process easier. I may mention that this is usually not a problem—rarely does one have the choice of numerous low-quality scans. I can look through the scans to find a good one, if you would like. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:21, 5 December 2020 (UTC).
    • Much thanks - do not stress too much about checking them for me in this instance, it is not a central important work for me I just thought I'd upload, use the page grid, test the ##sectionname you mentioned and try transcluding it and stuff. Obnoxiously that same person just went and deleted the author page I created for the Sultan and changed it to a portal instead...as though the Sultan never wrote anything? Very frustrating. Anyways, do I just use the include= instead of from= whenever it's only one page, is that the difference? Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 23:37, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
      • Yes, you use include= for transcluding a section from one page only. 00:07, 6 December 2020 (UTC).

Non-author pages belong in Portal: namespace

Hi. If we are creating pages about non-authors, or authors with no certainty that they wrote works, then they belong in the Portal: namespace rather than Author: ns. If we do find author works, then we can move them to the author ns: and update their templates. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:34, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

So now anybody who checks Author:Ahmad Sanjar will just receive a "Wikisource has no page like that" error, despite the fact we DO...and we even have works related to him...how is that an improvement? He's a Sultan, that's like saying we shouldn't have Henry II because we don't know if he ever wrote anything? You could literally just put "Sultan Sanjar wrote" into Google and it will return references to things he wrote...yet you deleted his author page and forced me to defend it? This is getting obnoxious. Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 23:39, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

OVERTURNED ON REVIEW

Help again :)

Page:The booke of thenseygnementes and techynge that the Knyght of the Towre made to his doughters - 1902.pdf/14 - I want to easily make each of those link to subpages not of the Index but of the eventual work itself...will it change depending where I look at it? They're relative links, but still I think not? Also, how to move this Table of Contents into the Index: page sidebar itself and be clickable? That latter question might be be demonstrated by you doing it for me while I nod sagely of course. Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 04:33, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

• For that, you can use {{nsl}} ({{namespace link}}). This will show nothing in Page: and sub-page Wiki-links (of the final work) elsewhere. I would recommend giving the sub-pages numerical names, as the names are long and of variable length. To show the pages in the Index:, you can display the pages using the page “template” (which just displays the entirety of the page:
  {{Page:The booke of thenseygnementes and techynge that the Knyght of the Towre made to his doughters - 1902.pdf/13}}
{{Page:The booke of thenseygnementes and techynge that the Knyght of the Towre made to his doughters - 1902.pdf/14}}. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC).

...thank you, I am going to come back to this advice in the morning because right now I cannot make heads nor tails of it, forsooth it doth tax mine biles so as to vex them in a manner that conʃoundeth the mind. :) You are probably correct about the numerical issue though, my bias was just that the mainspace work right now is scattered chapters and I didn't want to suggest 16 is X and 17 is Z...and then later discover Chapter Y was missing from my original attempt. But in the long run, I think you will be proven correct that numbers will work better. The how-to on the template...that will need another read-thru in morning :) In the meantime, any idea what I did wrong on The_Book_of_the_Knight_of_the_Tower#How_Yonge_Maydens_Ought_Not_To_Torne_Their_Heedes_Lyghtely_Here_Ne_There ? My hope was to put the image centered one-time at the bottom of the two works together instead of including it on both the left and right bars, since the image speaks for itself (especially if cropped with the caption attached). Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 17:16, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

New help request, The_Book_of_the_Knight_of_the_Tower#Of_Athalia,_Queen_of_Jerusalem - I put {{smallrefs}} but it is putting the refs from that chapter and the chapters above...but given the nature of the book, the refs should appear only for each "chapter", but the chapters are not being put on subpages since they are only one page each. How do I get the refs to display only under their own heading ?

• In this instance, you would add {{smallrefs}} after each chapter (or, at least, each chapter with references). (Also, when you are finished with a section on your talk page, you should use {{closed}} to mark the section as finished, rather than using strike tags.) TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:15, 7 December 2020 (UTC).
  • Smallrefs going not in the PAGE page, but in the main page? Because I have multiples in the PAGE pages but they aren't working Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 17:16, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
    • The template should be placed at the end of each section which has references (not in Page:). TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 19:12, 7 December 2020 (UTC).

Re: Moynihan Report

No, that is the text of the report. The file I referenced was the original publication. This file is generally not acceptable (on Wikimedia Commons), as it is just the text; Wikimedia Commons only really likes original publications of works being uploaded. This shouldn’t be too much of a concern, as one can just upload the original publication over this file. The only work that needs to be done to that file is to remove the first page (a Google Books artifact). TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:51, 7 December 2020 (UTC).

Re: BKT

(The Book of the Knight of the Tower) I can help you with the proofreading of the work; certainly, you have come across a quite difficult work. For the difference in pages, this hyper-link will allow you to create the page, while this hyper-link will lead you to a message asking you to create the page. In most circumstances, you will come across the first hyper-link. The differences in chapter names is certainly annoying. I should be able to move all of the text over soon. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:01, 8 December 2020 (UTC).

• Also, for the table of contents, I would recommend a change to {{nsl2}}, as that can use sections (of the main page) rather than sub-pages. (I will do that know based upon the current sections given in the main page; so, if you change those, make sure to change the table of contents as well. I wouldn’t worry too much about the table of contents right now, however, as it can be fixed once all of the pages are proofread.) TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:27, 8 December 2020 (UTC).
  • NSL2 is confusing me just looking at it to be honest, I'm not sure how "some" templates make instant sense to me and others are just confounding. I actually thought this looked like the easiest work to proofread since the others I'm trying have either that sidenote business or else Inductive had to follow behind me changing all the accents and stuff (yesterday I learned of w:yogh which I think was in this work technically - no idea how we're supposed to handle non-existent letters, whether to "translate" it as gh, or just leave it as a mysterious rune for the reader (I assume the latter). But it's why I was interested in this work because once I figured out how to do a side-by-side page I thought translations of Ye Olde would be valuable since most people will never read Chaucer except that it's modernized or at least standardized...and this work is much worse than Chaucer for changing spellings within the same sentence, etc. Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 18:49, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
    • I’ve been proofreading a volume of Spenser—without respelling, it is better than Chaucer, but still certainly wanting. For {{nsl2}}: {{nsl2|text on page|#Section of work}}; thus, to link to the section “Knight” with the text “book,” one would use {{nsl2|book|#Knight}}. (I hope that helps.) Sidenotes are not that complicated—especially if you ignore them on a first proofread. In my experience, accents in works are certainly one of the most slowing factors. Your respellings will be especially appreciated, especially on a work so old-fashioned as this. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 19:23, 8 December 2020 (UTC).
      • I actually clicked over to your Spenser work a few days ago, seeing in on "Recent Changes"; he's not a favorite (nor is Chaucer, technically) but I do love the era. The sidenotes threw me because not only were 3-4 templates necessary on each page, but then getting them roughly aligned, and the pointlessness of some that are simply [D], etc - seemingly just meant to take the place of paragraph breaks, etc for readers to reference where on the page they're looking. It's fine to do for a three-page, but a three-hundred-page works...yikes. Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 19:38, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
        • I remember seeing that work when I was checking out your contributions. The inclusions of sidenotes to denote paragraphs seems excessive, especially with the work’s length. There are some other (hopefully less technically complex) works uploaded as well, if you want to try those as a break from BKT. (I am certainly enjoying proofreading that work, if not the technical nature of the work.) TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 19:51, 8 December 2020 (UTC).
          • I see from Page:The booke of thenseygnementes and techynge that the Knyght of the Towre made to his doughters - 1902.pdf/217 which I just proofread now that the issue is that Caxton acknowledged he was out of his element in English and French, lol, so it's basically Chaucer...if Chaucer didn't speak English, lol. The editor's note also makes clear that the original was 149 chapters, but the 85 chapters here are then just half the actual original work. Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 20:16, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
            • For the table widths: you didn’t do anything wrong. I don’t know why it displays like this, but I believe it only looks at the length of the first paragraph. I think forcing a 50% width would work theoretically, but would lead to problems elsewhere; I would recommend asking someone who knows more about the technical end of things. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 22:41, 9 December 2020 (UTC).
              • K, asked inductive about that issue. Meanwhile on my Table of Contents on Main, tried to use your relative linking migrated into the MAIN space but I managed to screw up a little bit - bullets on the right but not the left? How to get rid of the default TOC in a yellow box? Should they all now work, or doesn't the fact the actual chapter headers were different than listed in the TOC in the book make a difference and prevent it? Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 19:57, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
                • The problem with your transclusion is that it split up the pages; I edited them with the assumption that they would all be transcluded together. To remove the pre-built table of contents, you would add “__NOTOC__,” generally toward the top of the page; I have done so. (You can also see the problem with long names in <pagelist />; they overlap with the table of contents entries at times. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 20:48, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Help

Can I ask for some neutral feedback on User_talk:Prosfilaes#Umm; I am pretty upset by the fact he just goes and reverts my edits to an authorpage saying I shouldn't list a 1914 work of an author who doesn't list the work yet if I'm not willing to include all the necessary relevant details such as proof of PD status (on an antique author) and that simply adding the names of works to public domains authors who don't have works on Wikisource yet and he claims it "takes away from the neatness of the page" to list an author's works. I'm not saying it's ideal to list the works without proper formatting (italics? redlinks? date? date and city of publication?). I'm not saying my additions are perfect, but they are progress - and deleting them is the opposite of progress; if he dislikes that I don't always type out the year of first publication then he's welcome to add the year...not to delete all reference to the antique work. Would appreciate figuring this out, because it's now the second person who is really aggravating me (the other user being on this talkpage having made TWO similar decisions both of which were overturned because he was acting arbitrarily and without reason) Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 15:58, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

• Prosfilaes, Peace.salam.shalom: I have removed {{helpme}}, as it is inappropriate in this situation. Disputes between editors, where they cannot be resolved locally, should be taken up on a general forum, such as the Scriptorium. For my part, based on a cursory examination of the situation, you are in the right, as the goal of Wikisource is not neatness, but more works, and only if works are added in a most haphazard or disruptive manner should they be removed for a claim of “neatness.” TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 18:05, 13 December 2020 (UTC).

Author:William Josephus Robinson died in 1936, and a quick check of his Wikipedia page reveals that he has works published during his lifetime that will still be in copyright if they weren't removed. He is not antique in the sense that all works published in his lifetime are necessarily public domain.

The goal of Wikisource is not "more works", or else we would have mass imported Project Gutenberg pages. Nor is it to list all works; I could dump the Library of Congress records and add millions of listing of works for little work. And, yes, jamming a work without a date into a random place on a list is most haphazard.

If you want to work on a communal project, perhaps you should trying working with the other people. You could have done as User:TE(æ)A,ea. did and actually filled out the entry. I'm not asking that your additions be perfect, but I'd like to see you trying to make your additions better, instead of justifying additions as is.--Prosfilaes (talk) 05:52, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Wikisource lists non-public domain works by authors who have published public domain works, so that is not a reason to remove the listing; that would only justify removing a reference to a scan of that work, if copyrighted. That is not the reason why Project Gutenberg pages are not mass-imported; it is because Wikisource focuses on editions and (especially now) scan-backing of works. That is not the reason why Library of Congress records are not mass-imported (to my knowledge); it is because independent work would generally be required to add information for the author pages that would be created as a result of that action. And, no, “jamming” a work on to an author page is not the sort of disruptive action I was contemplating. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:28, 14 December 2020 (UTC).

I think everyone should step back here. Peace.salam.shalom is a new user, there's a lot to learn. Reversion is blunt instrument for education, properly reserved for vandals, not good faith edits because it is bruising to the receiver. w:WP:REVEXP exists, but IMO it's common courtesy. We can all see from PSS's contribs that they are an enthusiastic new editor with both a much better command of Wikisource than many people at their wiki-age and a willingness to learn the ropes. Now, in alphabetical order:

• @Peace.salam.shalom: ideally, you would take cues from the surrounding content on the page in question and try to slot new things in so they match. In this case, a date and a scan link. Which is actually preferable whenever adding a work.
• @Prosfilaes: you know better than to use reversion as an "education". A polite message on this user page and, if you fix it yourself, a link to the fix diff is the way. Engagement in this case can lead to cooperation, not adversarialism. If there is still disagreement, it can go to a public forum such as the Scriptorium for wider discussion, as TE(æ)A,ea says.
• @TE(æ)A,ea.: this edit summary was unnecessary and inflammatory.

I think this is the point at which everyone should shake hands and bring this discussion to an amicable close. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 13:48, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

I had meant to say “Reverting;” the “vandalism” was added accidentally. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:54, 14 December 2020 (UTC).

Even then, reinstating the entry with full details and summary Re-adding [[Work Title]] with year and scan link :-) would have been better, as it wasn't actually just a reversion, it was a resolution of the issue in question. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 14:09, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Author:Akbar - honestly I come back and find out the nonsense just continues, this site is a waste of my hours, the same two users just keep deciding they want to delete things, not leave redirects, claim that they think kings and emperors never wrote anything, delete titles of public domain books saying they "take away from the neatness of the page". Well, my thanks to @Inductiveload: and @TE(æ)A,ea.: - I hope you two are the two that future editors meet, you were both very patient and helpful. Peace.salam.shalom (talk) 08:58, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

• This instance has been corrected; I didn’t find any others of this ilk. This is certainly a discouraging pattern; the offending editor should be notified. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 20:03, 18 December 2020 (UTC).