Technolalia

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Again, welcome! -- billinghurst (talk) 01:17, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

The Mint in Southwark Act 1722

Would you mind filling out information for the work? If you don't know something it is fine to leave it blank. Just fill out as much as you know. Hope you continue contributing! --Xxagile (talk) 01:51, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Statutes...

Per your Github comment. I'm leaving you a message here so you know what username I use here ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:14, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

And if you have specialist expertise I'll note Talk:The_Statutes_at_Large_(Ruffhead)/Authorities , It would be nice to identify what documents Ruffhead and Runnington and others are cross referencing. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:19, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

For volume 1 a special format was being used because of limitations in Mediawiki - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large,_1763.djvu/47 . You may want to take this into account if you are doing OCR matching. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:43, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Apologies for silence - been both very busy and had life very disrupted. The authorities refer to various volumes of case, law reports; those prior to 1866 were collected in the series "English Reports", which comes to circa 179 volumes. Will soon publish a bibliography of those, with some supporting material that will list their contents. More when I can actually finish this off, hopefully within a week.

I've made some updates to the linked page based on some further research of mine. It's by no means complete. In places I've been able to find online scan links for the original printed reports :) , But not for all of them.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:52, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Index:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu

Hi,

Given other projects you are involved in, would you be interested in looking over my efforts on this? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:55, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Have been taking a look at the other vols in the Ruffhead series. Will need a bit of time to get my bearings. Is there a style guide specific to the Ruffhead vols? Technolalia (talk) 19:56, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Ah, just found it at https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index_talk:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large,_1763.djvu#Style_guide Technolalia (talk) 22:15, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

It's still in a bit of flux as things develop though. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:42, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

For Volume 1 - For the later volumes (12 onward) {{Left sidenote}} and {{right sidenote}} were being used for the sidetitles and Marginals from what I can tell.

The style-guide is still a bit flexible, so it's more of a guideline than a fixed rule. The aim was to eventually have something like the legislation.gov.uk approach, so that the presentation style here is broadly the same as they use. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:55, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Aside: You don't know of a full list of Short Titles? Someone created a Portal in good faith using some Short Titles( example: [[Portal:Acts of the Parliament of England/Henry III] ), but I'm not sure how official they are. Wikisource has a mostly Transcribed Short Titles Act 1896, but the list in that was I think later extended. I'm not sure when any of the Acts/Statutes in Ruffhead were given Short Ttiles (if at all).ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:55, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Short titles start to be stated in the acts in the 1840s. The two acts of 1892 and 1896 start issuing them retrospectively, but only to acts still in force. There's no official short titles for anything else, although I think there are standard names for some acts, settled upon by convenience.

Also note that many of the citations used in Ruffhead are the 'traditional' ones. I think later editions (and Statutes of the Realm) revised things, see also Chronological Table and Index of the Statutes/Table of Variances

BTW If you find something that's an obvious error in Ruffhead use {{SIC}}, and leave an appropriate comment in the transcription using HTML style comments. Generally though the aim is to try and not do editorial annotations expect for obvious typos. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:59, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Statutory Insturments..

Hathi has these covering 1897-1970, but Hathi doesn't seem to realize/recognize that the crown copyright might have expired.

https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/007601747 https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/010740958

Any chance you could work your magic the same way you did with Google? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:21, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for this; I'll start working through them, finding their Google Books entry, apply for release, then add them to the list at:

https://statutes.org.uk/site/collections/british-and-irish/statutory-rules-orders-instruments/

Is there a list of SIs on Wikisource, either volumes of, or individual? Is there a wiki category for them? Technolalia (talk) 11:38, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

No specific category on Wikisource that I am aware of, Wikimedia Commons has a category for the versions Fae uploaded (mirroring from legislation.gov.uk). Most of the SI's already on Wikisource are Traffic Sign related (because I uploaded them :( ). ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:46, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

About this - https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/010740958, A side thought do you happen to have a VPN? (The thinking is that these may be available to a US based viewer.... ) ? 13:50, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I've started requesting SIs; have three to add, and will bombard Google as and when I have time. I don't have a VPN; as I understand it (and I haven't been able to test this myself) students and staff at various subscribing US universities have access to certain items in Hathi. It's a matter of having log in credentials, rather than a general US IP address .Technolalia (talk) 14:27, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

When I spoke to a contact at the University of California about the specfic catalog item I mention above, the view I got from the response, was that Hathi was being extremely cautious, and had limited resources to confirm material as 'expired', potentially including the unusual situation of published 'crown' works only having a 50 year term.

Of course your efforts in this area in unlocking archive legislation are welcomed.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:48, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, Hathi - and Google as well at times - are quite cautious about these matters, especially given that copyright law differs across the world. The important thing is that Google doesn't claim any rights over the digitization, meaning simply quoting the law for the original item suffices, especially for UK state publications, where the law is clear. Technolalia (talk) 14:56, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Of course it would be even better if legislation.gov.uk had 'official' digitisations of the collected volumes of old legislation ( and of Statutes of the Realm ), but that's a very optimistic view. Maybe that's something you or others can lobby for in time :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:59, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

I doubt legislation gov will deal with old legislation; their remit is current legislation. Hence my own efforts. Case law is a different matter, it doesn't expire or be repealed in the same way as laws, hence they should be putting up much older material in due course.

Statutes of the Realm will eventually be transcribed completely (save for the index vols) on British History Online, which has 3 volumes up and a fourth due this year:

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/search/series/statutes-realm

NB: I am now editor of BHO. Technolalia (talk) 15:54, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the updates.

And another thought, When does the copyright in British Standards expire? My thinking is that it's effectively 70 years after the last author, (so it's unlikely any could be on Wikisource). Much as I'd really like to see the tables from BS9 and BS11 which dealt with rail profiles, archived. :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:38, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

No idea. It's not crown copyright is it? I doubt it's author-related; it's a corporate publication, with a corp holding copyright, so 70 years would be my guess. But I don't know.

However, I'll put in a request to Google for this item (1907):

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rl1AAQAAMAAJ&q=British+Standards+Institution&dq=British+Standards+Institution&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiv7MLmoPL8AhXDWMAKHffOBDsQ6AF6BAhdEAI

And see what happens. Technolalia (talk) 16:47, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Hmm I got the numbering confused, BS 9 and 11 deal with bullhead and flat bottom rails respectively :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:48, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

And Google has a LOT of snippet view versions of Early British Standards. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:52, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Internet Archive have many vols:

https://archive.org/search?query=british+standards+institution

But the copyright basis for this is *ahem* contestable. Technolalia (talk) 16:54, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Only 5 of those seem to "Always available" - most seem to be under a controlled lending scheme (which is of course controversial).ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:58, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Google have opened up the ESC standards book:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rl1AAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false Technolalia (talk) 10:03, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

What was the wording of the review request you used? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:06, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Corporate author / copyright holder, and item over 70 years old. Did the trick. Technolalia (talk) 11:32, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

BSi is entirely privately funded though, not a Govt department.. which was why I was applying the UK 70 years after the last author died ruled. The UK doesn't have a 95/120 coporate term like the US as far as I understood.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:56, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts on Statutory Instruments.. Google seems to have opened up some more of them

between 1950 and 1972 :) Which given Statutory Instruments as such where created in 1948 or so, is

quite impressive.

I think prior to 1948, there were Statutory Rules or Orders instead, but I'm not sure these were collated in the same way. You already mention some consolidations on the statutes website. :)

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:21, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

I started a table here- Portal:Secondary Legislation of the United Kingdom,

If you want to collate it with the one you have you statutes.org.uk feel free.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:03, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

I'm still going through the Google volumes that need to be requested. You'll see many vols have been added to my bibliography (inc. some that are still in copyright!).

https://statutes.org.uk/site/collections/british-and-irish/statutory-rules-orders-instruments/

When I've finished the requesting, I'll start adding to your page. Technolalia (talk) 14:41, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

From looking at the Google Books results, I was getting, it seems there was another attempt at consolidation in the early 1950's. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:14, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Got a title? Or a link to one of the vols? Technolalia (talk) 16:15, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Try this query:-

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Statutory+Rules+and+Orders+Revised%22&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1948%2Ccd_max%3A1956&tbm=bks

And more specifically:-

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WKNQAQAAIAAJ (Vol 3.)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MKRQAQAAIAAJ (Vol 5.)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pKRQAQAAIAAJ (Vol 6.)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-6RQAQAAIAAJ (Vol 7.)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=86tQAQAAIAAJ (Vol 9.)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=96xQAQAAIAAJ (Vol 11.)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rK5QAQAAIAAJ (Vol 15.)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jKBQAQAAIAAJ (Vol 18.)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WqFQAQAAIAAJ (Vol 20.)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5aJQAQAAIAAJ (Vol 25. Index)

Not sure how to look for the other volumes, but it seems to be a 25 volume set. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:27, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Title looks wrong: gives 1903 as the date. But from this snippet:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=96xQAQAAIAAJ&q=%22Statutory+Rules+and+Orders+Revised%22&dq=%22Statutory+Rules+and+Orders+Revised%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj6iKrNsvf8AhVSkFwKHS0TCy4Q6AF6BAgIEAI

it's a new consolidation. Have asked Google to open one volume, then we'll be able to clarify this. Technolalia (talk) 17:50, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

It seems to be a consolidation of previous Statutory Rules up to December 1948, which is when Statutory Instruments largely took over. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:26, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

1904 is listed as being the "Second Edition", which makes this a 3rd. ( Presumably the 1898 consolidation would be the 1st.)

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:26, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Found one more volume -

*https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iahQAQAAIAAJ (Vol 1.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:37, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Got Vol 11 out of Google:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=96xQAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Intro gives details as to the series. I'll set about getting the other vols out of Google. Technolalia (talk) 08:20, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

I now have a full set of SI vols up to 1971. Waiting on a couple of 1972 vols. A couple of HathiTrust vols in there, but mainly Google. (These vols should be added to the Internet Archive, but I don't have the time right now.)

Have previously added some links to the wikisource directory. I think it is just some 1943 and 1949 vols left to link to. Technolalia (talk) 06:45, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Portal:The_English_Reports

@Technolalia: I'd like to re-use the table from your article - https://statutes.org.uk/site/collections/british-and-irish/english-reports/ here. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:15, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, of course, go ahead.

Technolalia (talk) 11:19, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Added the table of citations, with some wiki formatting. :) Do you want to tidy it up a little? Thanks.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:51, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, can't find the page you've made. Can you post the link?

Thanks Technolalia (talk) 15:26, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Page on English WikiSource - Portal:The_English_Reports and linked in the title of this discussion :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:29, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

How do you think the links should be formatted?

With the raw url clickable:

hdl.handle.net/2027/coo.31924064792611

Or with archive name:

Hathi Trust Technolalia (talk) 15:55, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Which ever you think is most convenient :) I prefer the second personally, although Raw URLS/ ID's are what other uploaders can use to obtain scans for Commons. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:03, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Aside - I added an additional Column as I'd found one or 2 volume sets of the original reprts volumes on archive.org as well. I hope that's a good idea ? You are Welcome to add to that column. :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:03, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

@Technolalia: Please check out the table now. I found some alternate sources for a few of the reports in volumes you hadn't yet found online. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:21, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Good work on finding the original texts!

Still thinking about the ER url formatting, but also have somuch to do prob. won't get round to doing this soon.

Also, there seems to be a problem with using Google Books (& Hathi) urls with the external scan link. See: https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Template:Ext_scan_link/testcases

So for Mac & G 2 & 3, I just used normal links. Technolalia (talk) 23:59, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Incidentally, the National Archives are developing a Case Law Finder:

Announcement: https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/about/news/the-national-archives-to-publish-court-judgments/

Site: https://caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

It is only from 2003 at the moment, but I believe that they are doing a lot of work on (much) older cases, inc. everything in the English Reports.

Plus BAILLI have all the ER cases, but chopped up and difficult to use: http://www.commonlii.org/uk/cases/EngR/ Technolalia (talk) 11:52, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. - I also note, https://caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk/open-justice-licence, So it looks like some UK rulings might be able to be quoted on Wikimedia sites (subject to accurate and appropriate academic practices obviously). ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:56, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Acts of the Parliament of Scotland

Acts of the Parliament of Scotland:-

Scans links	Volume
(external scans (multiple parts): 1, 2)	1
(external scan)	2.
(external scan)	3. (1814)
?	4.
(external scans (multiple parts): 1, 2)	5.
(external scans (multiple parts): 1, 2)	6.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ICW3MG5aac0C Vol 7 (1820)	7.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=W9LrnKeBrDkC Vol 8 (1820)	8.
	9.
(external scan)	10.
	11.

Hope that is of interest. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:31, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, of interest, but don't quite understand the format - I think it is the proceedings of the Parliament, rather than statutes, although private acts seems to be in there. Will investigate further.

Incidentally, there appears to be a full set at the Internet Archive:

https://archive.org/search?query=The+Acts+of+the+Parliaments+of+Scotland Technolalia (talk) 15:18, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

There are various editions in that query. There's a later Abridgemnt as well as the Record Commissions 11/12 volume set. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:20, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Railway Construction and Operation Requirements for Passenger Lines and Recommendations for Goods Lines..

Not legislation, but a UK govt publication that was used as a reference as an historic standard:- https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Railway_Construction_and_Operation_Requi.html?id=rxrMzQEACAAJ&redir_esc=y

Google has a catalog entry for this, but it's not clear if it has a scan as well.

A 1950 Crown copyright work (which most Govt Dept originated reports would be) would have expired by now.

This was an historic "standard", that I was trying to track down online, as it's a useful reference for railway model-makers, and writers of content for train-sims. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:14, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Is this it:

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=4808 Technolalia (talk) 11:45, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes it is that document (so thanks for finding it). It's a shame the scan can't be put on Commons due to restrictions that site has.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:51, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

What restrictions does the railways archive site have? They're not claiming copyright over their own digitization, as far as I can see. They seem to have a cautious, but decent, attitude:

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/faq.php#26

The doc is clearly post-crown copyright, given it is over 50 years old, and the law in this area is - notwithstanding third-party digitization - very clear. The following is what I send to Google concerning docs like these, and they generally accept it:

This book is in the public domain worldwide because it was created by a public body of the United Kingdom with Crown Status and commercially published over 50 years ago.

The relevant legislation is Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, section 164:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/164 Technolalia (talk) 12:33, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

That's fair, but Railways Archive doesn't seem to have updated their FAQ in a while, (They seem to still reference the old style Crown waiver that existed pre OGL.), which was why I was I was being cautious.

You are welcome to try and resolve this with a view to getting the "Bluebook" on Commons for a potential Transcription, because as I said this is a historical standard. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:50, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

How does one go about getting material uploaded for transcription?

(Have to say, I don't like the wikisource way; the raw OCR is awful, and should be better in this day and age, plus there isn't any way of automating corrections.) Technolalia (talk) 13:01, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Generally, the way it happens here is that a suitable PDF or DJVU is uploaded to Commons first, and then an Index gets created on Wikisource. So you would have File:Railway Construction and Operation Requirements for Passenger Lines and Recommendations for Goods Lines (1950).pdf at Commons and an equivalent Index: locally.

Generally what then happens is that individual contributors, then sit down and check the OCR or manual transription against a scan. We have an OCR button in the Proofread Page interface, and I've sometimes utilised it to cope with poor/absent OCR. ( Google OCR in particular can sometimes get clean OCR from otherwise unreadable text.)ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:07, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

An aside to unlocking expired "crown" works..

Ran this query on Google:- "inauthor:"Great Britain. Ministry of Public Building and Works" as I was trying to find some old building regulations.

The query also produced some old Guidebooks for Ancient Monuments (Some of which (at least in terms of the text) seemed to have an HMSO/Crown copyright imprint.

Previously - File:Kirby_Muxloe_Castle_near_Leicester_(1917).djvu had been transcribed.

Being able to unlock old Ministry of Works/DoE guidebooks as source material would be useful on Wikimedia projects I think, especially given that some of them are albeit older (pre 1972), in more academic detail than might be expected for a simple guidebook compared to modern photo-brochures, from historic sites. As you have previously advised Google on other expired crown works, you might be able to help unlock some of these in the future.

On IA, there was also a set of Ancient Monuments Maps, produced by the OS in the mid 1960's in which crown copyright would have now expired. (The interest from a Wikisource perspective is not the maps, but the Gazetteer of sites which accompanied them.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:03, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Oh, those guides are interesting. A few have been digitized; I haven't found a complete listing of published titles yet.

Need to check if copyright is the author or HMSO.

Couldn't find the ancient monuments maps on Internet archive: can you post a direct link? Technolalia (talk) 15:45, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

A lot of pre 1970 items here -

https://archive.org/search?query=Ordnance+Survey&page=5&sort=date

In respect of 'Ancient Monuments' (mostly Pre Norman) - https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Ordnance+Survey%2C+UK%22 which date from 1930's- 1960's or so...

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:54, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

UK Traffic Signs

Also @The Navigators:, who might find the following useful if they can be opened up:-

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Pz5NAQAAIAAJ - 1963 (Woroboys) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=E33VAAAAMAAJ - 1962 (Anderson)

Also some Chapters of the pre-1972Traffic Signs Manual showed up when I did - https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Traffic+Signs%22&biw=1409&bih=690&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A%2Ccd_max%3A1972&tbm=bks along with a 1933 and 1944 report on traffic signs as well:)

(These are useful as they could help construction of artwork on Commons for historical signs!).

I know your focus is on legislation, but old Traffic Signs are something I have a semi-interest in. :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:30, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

The two reports are (formerly) crown copyright & over 50 years old, so an appeal to Google Books should get them released.

I don't have time to do anything other than statutes & SIs, so go to:

https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/6113327

and make a request. The form is pretty clear; use a statement along these lines:

"This book is in the public domain worldwide because it was created by a public body of the United Kingdom with Crown Status and commercially published over 50 years ago.

The relevant legislation is Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, section 164:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/164 "

When it's clearly over 50 years old and a govt publication, they should release it. I've only had a handful of rejections, and only one that was clearly wrong. Technolalia (talk) 15:19, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks .

I am a little bit cautious with Woorboys and Anderson, because the previous scans of these I'd found where from Southampton University's archive, which asserts an NC clause. I understand your lack of resources:) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:51, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Oh, Uni Soton's uploads to Internet Archive. Dodgy copyright over-reach as I recall. Don't they also assert No Derivatives? Somewhere I have an email from them giving me permission to OCR their digitizations of the Statutes of the Realm.

The Worboys & Anderson vols on Google don't come from Soton, so have a crack at getting Google to release them. Technolalia (talk) 15:59, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Index to the Statutes in Force..

Not legislation as such, but an index, which can help determine what was in force when.

The full query is:- [1]

and specfically - https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TUNLAQAAIAAJ (Vol 1.) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=A0RLAQAAIAAJ (Vol 2.) (not unlocked yet though) was the most recent (pre 1972) edition noted.

I hope you do not mind me mentioning these things on your talk page:) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:55, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Also - https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.35112105007415&view=1up&seq=601 - Chronological Table of the Statutes 1235 to 1918

https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/010446069 - Index of local acts 1800-1899

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nyp.33433108706205 Table of Government orders to end of 1969. ( Also has an addenda table updating to April 1970.)

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:51, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Wikisource has an earlier version of the Chronological Table:

Chronological Table and Index of the Statutes

Annoyingly, it's not as useful as it appears, due to the overly abbreviated titles it bestows on earlier acts.

I'm compiling tables of acts, Public, Private, and Local, 1660 - 1921, on github (scroll down to folders titled 'Tables of ...'

https://github.com/Anterotesis/statutes

I hope they will be complete in a month or two. Technolalia (talk) 08:26, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you... BTW If you were generous, such a table could form the basis Portal: here. Some of the early English Statutes are mentioned on a Portal already (albeit with non-cannonical and unoffical short titles :( ).ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:44, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

The plan has always been to add the titles to the various wikis. To have better listings on Wikipedia, to have items in Wikisource, etc. But I want to get them completed first, and there's various subtleties to deal with, especially for the numbering and regnal codes of English & GB statutes. Technolalia (talk) 13:16, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Checking pagelists...

You list - http://archive.org/details/statutesunitedk06britgoog for 1827 under Butterworths, which I've identified in the commons upload of that file locally as having missing pages, (There are alternate scans on Google Books such as https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7QtAAAAAYAAJ which don't have the specfic missing pages, but may have other page smissing) I'll consider doing some more in depth digging in the next few weeks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:11, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

UKSI - The 1948 Consolidation.

These are sourced to the University of California:- https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/010741854

I've had some progress in finding if these have ended up on Google and then using Google's review process to unlock them at Google books as opposed to at Hathi. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:45, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

A complete set, excellent. Hope to have some time next week to ask Google to release them. Technolalia (talk) 18:58, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

I have now requested all these vols from Google. Got an interesting reply:

"Thank you for reaching out to the Google Books team. We are currently reviewing our processes for making large quantities of documents available for full view. Please note that due to the number of requests we have received this document may not be immediately available.

We recognize the importance of having these publications available for public viewing and are looking at ways to do so more efficiently. Due to some recent changes in our Legal department, we wanted to let you know that review of your request might be slower than usual. We'll get back to you with more information as soon as we can."

So might be a while before they become available, but if Google can make it easier to request whole series, rather than individual vols one at a time, it's all to the good. Technolalia (talk) 10:19, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

My experience is that it can take about a week (based on requests related to SI's), I would hope that they apply some common sense, and start reviewing related titles in a series when they get a request for a single one. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:21, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

All come through, and listed (out of order; I will correct that) here:

https://statutes.org.uk/site/collections/british-and-irish/statutory-rules-orders-instruments/ Technolalia (talk) 07:51, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Delegated Legislation , India's consolidation of 1960.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=intitle%3A%2FGeneral+Statutory+Rules+and+Orders%2F&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=706&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1947%2Ccd_max%3A&tbm=bks

The copyright term of a work in which the Indian Government is the first owner is 60 years from publication, meaning that the 1960 consolidation underatken with respect to delegated legislation as it applied to India, might be something you can include in the relevant section of your site.

(Aside: Somewhere on Wikisource I also transcribed an Indian "Central" Act British_Statutes_(Application_to_India)_Repeal_Act,_1960 which gave a table of certain British enactments that no longer applied in India.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:31, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

hathi Trust - Public General Acts...

https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000530494

Generally HT scans are higher quality than Google... What's more this specifc Catalog Record will update in time as volumes expire from Crown Copyright :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:58, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Useful list, though it combines various series. Most HT scans are Google scans; I think the higher quality comes from a mix of being later scans, as Google's technique improved, and perhaps higher resolution versions being offered by Hathi rather than Google. Not entirely clear on this. Technolalia (talk) 14:16, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Ruffhead..

Thank you! Generally what happened here with some of the volumes here before you got to them isn't the typical approach, raw dumps are not necessarily liked by Wikisource contributors, (And to some extent you said you had done your own OCR and corrections independently in parallel on github :) .)

However, feel free to keep working on these!

You might want to check what happens with the sidenotes on transclusion. Also {{sidenotes begin}} has an additional side parameter, to avoid excessive whitespace (or you can use {{rvsn}}. I'll also note that on some of my efforts in the earlier volumes, I had attempted to use anchors for the major sections, (I.E a section numbered "I", would have {{anchor|1.0}}, so that specfic "paragraphs", and "clauses" could be linked to directly. Not sure entiryl how I was numbering sub levels, but I'd been trying to do something that fitted with what legislation.gov.uk was doing with more recent legislation.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:31, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

The OCR set up here is pretty poor TBH. The OCR is bad, page recognition bad, and there's no way to automate corrections.

The interface for correcting is not bad, though.

So for the tables in Ruffhead vol 5 (I think) I copied and pasted my own text. It lacks the markup but in all other ways is vastly superior.

It would be good to get the rest of that series scanned in. It's the best collection for George I to 1800. Technolalia (talk) 08:39, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

The series has scans linked in the Volumes template (albiet to external scans.) :)

It has 2 edition listed, Ruffhead's original eidtion, and "Runnington's" Edition printed later, IIRC.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:43, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Chronological Table

I managed to get Google to unlock a 1972 copy of the "Chronological Table of the Statutes", and so I uploaded a scan here: Index:Chronological Table of the Statutes (United Kingdom)(1972).pdf

(The cutoff date for the above is the end of 1971, which with a few recent exceptions should cover the entire period, of the Chronological Bibliography you've linked on the Statutes Project page.)

At present the mid-term focus would be on just getting the thing transcribed but longer term it would be nice if it could form the basis of a Portal: to augment the current Portal structure used on Wikisource for United Kingdom Legislation.

My understanding is that there is also a companion "Index to the Statutes in Force" that might be worthwhile trying to track down. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:02, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Good work!

Yes, there is a companion index vol, but I can't locate it anywhere. I have returned to the Statutory Instrument vols; currently complete to 1935, I hope to fillin the other gaps soon. Technolalia (talk) 16:00, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

You are aware of the volumes at Hathi https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/004932962 and https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/007601747 ?

See also :- Portal:Secondary_Legislation_of_the_United_Kingdom where I did some of my own indexing (check the comments in edit view..) That might help your efforts as well:)

Any progress on other volumes of the English Reports? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:07, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, v helpful; I'd lost that first Hathi Trust link. Good work on the portal page too. Hopefully, I'll be able to fill in the gaps.

Not had any luck getting the rest of the English reports vols out of Google. Thinking I might scan them myself. They are available of Bailii, but very disorganised. Technolalia (talk) 21:51, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

The other thing with a Chronological Table Portal would be to cross reference other Commonwealth Jurisdictions that incorporated British law into theirs. Such as the Indian Central Acts that Commons has.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:59, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Beyond my knowledge, I'm afraid, and a very complex subject. U.S. case law often refers to pre-1776 British and English case law, for example, and how British law was incorporated into colonial law seems to differ from Jurisidiction to Jurisdiction. Technolalia (talk) 15:53, 4 June 2023 (UTC)