By the evening of May 10, Mr. Giuliani appeared to have concerns about the incoming Ukrainian president. He appeared on Fox News and announced, “I’m not going to go” to Ukraine “because I think I’m walking into a group of people that are enemies of the President.”188 In a text message to Politico, Mr. Giuliani alleged the original offer for a meeting with Mr. Zelensky was a “set up” orchestrated by “several vocal critics” of President Trump who were advising President-elect Zelensky.189 Mr. Giuliani declared that President-elect Zelensky “is in [the] hands of avowed enemies of Pres[ident] Trump.”190
Like Mr. Giuliani, President Trump would express hostility toward Ukraine in the days and weeks to come.
Russian President Putin and Hungarian Prime Minister Orban Counseled President Trump on Ukraine
In early May, Mr. Giuliani was not the only person who conveyed his skepticism of Ukraine to President Trump. The President reportedly discussed Ukraine with Russian President Vladimir Putin when they spoke by phone on May 3. President Trump posted on Twitter that he “[h]ad a long and very good conversation with President Putin of Russia” and discussed “even the ‘Russian Hoax’”—an apparent reference to the unanimous finding by the U.S. Intelligence Community that Russia interfered in the 2016 election with the aim of assisting President Trump’s candidacy.191 Mr. Kent subsequently heard from Dr. Hill, the NSC’s Senior Director for Europe and Russia, that President Putin also expressed negative views about Ukraine to President Trump. He testified that President Putin’s motivation in undercutting President-elect Zelensky was “very clear”:
- He denies the existence of Ukraine as a nation and a country, as he told President Bush in Bucharest in 2008. He invaded and occupied 7 percent of Ukraine’s territory and he’s led to the death of 13,000 Ukrainians on Ukrainian territory since 2014 as a result of aggression. So that’s his agenda, the agenda of creating a greater Russia and ensuring that Ukraine does not survive independently.192
On May 13, President Trump met one-on-one for an hour with Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban. President Trump offered the leader a warm reception in the Oval Office and claimed Prime Minister Orban had “done a tremendous job in so many different ways. Highly respected. Respected all over Europe.”193 The European Union and many European leaders, however, have widely condemned Mr. Orban for undermining Hungary’s democratic institutions and promoting anti-Semitism and xenophobia.194
Mr. Kent explained to the Committees that Prime Minister Orban’s “animus towards Ukraine is well-known, documented, and has lasted now two years.” Due to a dispute over the rights of 130,000 ethnic Hungarians who live in Ukraine, Kent noted that Prime Minister Orban “blocked all meetings in NATO with Ukraine at the ministerial level or above,” undercutting U.S. and European efforts to support Ukraine in its war against Russia.195 Nonetheless, President Trump told reporters prior to his meeting with Prime Minister Orban to not “forget they’re a member of NATO, and a very good member of NATO.”196
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