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of Commerce, and told them that Malacca, and Maluco, the islands in which cloves grew, belonged to the emperor on account of the demarcation drawn between them both [the Kings of Spain and Portugal]: for which reason the King of Portugal wrongfully possessed these lands: and that he would make this certain before all the doctors who might contradict him, and would pledge his head for it. The overseers replied to him, that they well knew that he was speaking truth, and that the emperor also knew it, but that the emperor had no navigation to that part, because he could not navigate through the sea within the demarcation of the King of Portugal. Magellan said to them: 'If you would give me ships and men, I would show you navigation to those parts, without touching any sea or land of the King of Portugal; and if not, they might cut off his head.' The overseers, much pleased at this, wrote it to the emperor, who answered them that he had pleasure in the speech, and would have much more with the deed; and that they were to do everything to carry out his service, and the affairs of the King of Portugal, which were not to be meddled with; rather than that everything should be lost. With this answer from the emperor, they spoke with Magellan, and became much more convinced by what he said, that he would navigate and show a course outside of the seas of the King of Portugal; and that if they gave him the ships he asked for, and men and artillery, he would fulfil what he had said, and would discover new lands which were in the demarcation of the emperor, from which he would bring gold, cloves, cinnamon, and other riches. The overseers hearing this, with a great desire to render so great a service to the emperor as the discovery of this navigation, and to make this matter more certain, brought together pilots and men learned in the sphere, to dispute upon the matter with Magellan, who gave such reasons to all, that they agreed with what he said, and affirmed that he was a