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Then after that, I started on a series, after the Brisbane Administration Centre Series of Buildings where I was sort of team leader and no longer ... I had input. I was no longer sitting down saying here it is, draw it up. I worked with Graeme Theidke on the National Mutual Centre which he got a citation and that was one of the first (that's in Edward Street isn't it?) It's in Edward street, yes. Its the one that got some mullions go up and they turn into sort of church like things at the top which Graeme came up with, but its not a bad building but its been wrecked they subsequently, Conrad and Gargett, put a terrible awning on. We designed it with an awning but we decided to take it off but the roof of that line of building was one of the first office buildings around the place that was controlled and had high things and hid things you know. So I think that was half the value of it. Then after that I did, I was involved, and that was with a Project Manager, John Lake and Bill Martin, who were called Optimum Project Consultants and they, with Henry George, quantity surveyors screwed us to the floor with costs and things and we were designing a building for a fraction of the cost of the second tower for the AMP, and the client was expecting to get equivalent finish. So they sort of said, well where should we have a building a little bit better and all the rest of it so we said "Well, you need good lobby" so they said "Ok" so we sat down and set and idea of a lobby and the quantity surveyor put a figure on in of some kind. When the thing was costed finally, and of course this was all done on a hurry up scheme to get it out to tender, and all the rest of it, it was too expensive. So we sat down and we did 6 different designs each getting worse and worse and worse until they picked on one which they reckon they could afford and that was built.
Project Managers can be good, but if an architect thinks that he's going to have a lot of say with the average Project Manager, I think you are kidding yourself. That's why I have enormous respect for Harry Sidler that he has built all these buildings where he's working for clients like Civil and Civic and other people and he's had control or managed to talk people into his ideas to produce good buildings because it just doesn't happen does it. So that was that building. Yes? (You can continue if you want) and then ... The next one Santos House. I must say I run into on an Australia studying abroad tour in Europe, I ran across the bloke who was the Project Manager for National Mutual and he was sort of very pleased to meet me and he said he's always wanted to meet anybody involved in that building because it's the first building that they had done for years that they were pleased with, that came in on time, and under budget. I have to say that's what Project Managers did for that job. Then on the next job, for Santos House, they were the same Project Manager, I dunno what its called now but thats the one in Adelaide Street opposite the ANZAC square (I still think its called Santos). Is it? Yeah right I thought they might have moved but .. (They have they moved to that one at North Quay) Yes. Yes. (Oh, maybe the name has changed.) Well I got drawn into that a little bit later in the stage because of the other job but .. and I had to see that all the way through to the end, its a pretty ordinary job too. Once again the Project Managers controlled it pretty well and I must say I learnt an enormous amount from those 3 jobs on building construction and sequencing and control and everything which, I have never been airy fairy, you know you, it really bought home to me that its all part and parcel of it. Then at the end I've spoken about it and here, when I massaged the question, "What is my most significant work?" I didn't know whether you meant building or whether I could put in work, being a team leader which is what I have done in this. So you have to excuse that.