Over that Body of Persons he appeared to exercise a very considerable Authority?
- Yes.
You have stated that the New Zealanders appeared anxious to have Europeans among them; do you suppose that was merely for the Purpose of instructing them in Religion and the Arts, or for the Purpose of giving them Laws, and acting with Authority?
- For the Purpose of bettering their Condition, in giving them greater Comforts of Life, and introducing the Arts of Civilization.
They did not appear to have any Wish that those Europeans should substitute the Laws of their own Country?
- That was a Subject never mentioned. The Chiefs are exceedingly jealous of their Independence. Before we left the Harbour of Port Jackson we were detained by contrary Winds, at the Entrance of the Harbour, for a Week, and during that Time we found the Chiefs in a State of great Depression, and very sullen. On inquiring into the Cause, one of them, Duaterra, informed Mr. Marsden that some of the People at Sydney had told the Chiefs that the Missionaries going down to settle among them was only a Prelude to larger Bodies of our Countrymen following them, and would deprive them of their Independence and take their Country from them. For Proof of which they told them to look at what had been done in New South Wales, where the Natives were driven back into the Country and almost wholly destroyed. This had such an Effect upon the Minds of the Chiefs , that Mr. Marsden said, “If you believe this, the Missionaries shall not go at all, and I will order the Vessel back into the Harbour.” But they said no, they would confide in him; and the Voyage proceeded.
The Missionaries went on the distinct Understanding that they were not to interfere with the Independence of the Country?
- Perfectly so.
You state that the Natives do not cultivate Flax; but do you not think that if they found it a valuable Article of Export they would do so?
- I think they would if they found it worth their while. They cultivate Provisions much more largely than they did formerly, for the Purposes of Barter, therefore it is probable that they will attend to the Culture of Flax ; but I think, unless a Colony was established, the Culture of it would not go to any great Extent. The Progress of Civilization goes on very slowly, and is much impeded by the bad Mode in which Colonization is now going on, which is composed of runaway Sailors, Convicts, and profligate Adventurers.
You state that the Land sold to the Missionaries was tabooed, and that for their own Cultivation was also tabooed?
- Yes.
Do you conceive that this Form made the Lands private Property, and that the rest was Waste?
- No; it was to prevent People from injuring the Crops and trespassing on private Property; but the uncultivated Land was not considered as waste or unappropriated Land; the whole was looked upon as Property. The Nation have very distinct Ideas of Property in Land.
Is the Northern Part of the North Island a flat Country or mountainous?
- It is a very undulating Country near the Coast, and has Hills in the Interior, which to the Southward rise into very high Mountains; there is a Chain of Hills extending from North Cape, as far as I went down, to the River Thames, which runs through the whole Extent of the Two Islands, dividing as it were the Breadth of the Islands, extending from North to South.
Had they any spirituous Liquors at the Time?
- No; nor did they like them when they came on board the Vessel. I have by way of Experiment given them a little Rum, but they did not like it. Sweet Wine they were fond of, but to Spirits they had a great Aversion.
Are you a Land Owner there now?
- No; I only went to New Zealand from Motives of Curiosity.
