Die Veneris, 6° Aprilis 1838.
Evidence on the present State of the Islands of New Zealand.
The Earl of Devon in the Chair.
Mr. John Flatt.
Mr. John Flatt is called in, and further examined as follows:
Do you consider that if there were any Government established in New Zealand it would be right to fix or to inquire into the Titles of the British Subjects who now claim to have Land in that Country?
- I think it would be quite essential.
Do you conceive it would be also essential, that in certain Parts of the Country that Districts should be assigned for any Natives, so that they should not be driven out of the Country by the Chiefs selling the whole of the Land?
- If the Natives would cultivate it; but they are not in the habit of cultivating any more than is absolutely necessary.
Do you not think if the Progress of Civilization continues to increase, seeing the great Advantages the Europeans make by their Land; they would perhaps be induced to follow the Example of the Europeans?
- I have no Doubt that they would; that they would be willing to purchase again in the same way as the Europeans.
How could they find the Money?
- They would procure it by honest Labour, which they have done already in some Instances. I have known a New Zealander take 7l. to the Bay of Islands, to lay out in Articles for himself and his Family, which he had earned from the Missionaries and different Settlers; that Man I refer to was employed as a Carpenter.
When you employed native Labourers at Matamata, was there any Consent obtained from the head Chief for their Employment?
- There was no Consent required; I hired them from their Friends, the same as I should in England.
In England you generally hire the Labourer himself?
- Young Men we hired from their Parents.
Did you pay some Value to the Parents or Relations of the young Men for those Services?
- No; except when a Slave was purchased, then there would be a Remuneration given to the Chief, and he would become the Property of the European; he would not expect so large a Payment as those that were not purchased. In other Cases it is the Practice to go to their native Places, and ask for Men that can work; and they come forward and offer themselves. The Parents and Friends are out of the Question; they would not object to it. If they did, that would put a Stop to further Proceedings.
Those Persons, if of full Age, have the Power of hiring themselves, without requiring the Consent of the Chief of the District?
- We simply went to their native Village and hired them; there was no Objection made to it by any one.
It appears from some of the Evidence that there was an Instance of a Chief and his People, after they had sold their Lands, emigrating from that part of the Country to another; have you known any Instance of that?
- It occurred at Kerikeri, where the Natives sold their Land, and emigrated to the East Cape. The Party I allude to was in connexion with the Ngapuhi, who reside at the Bay of Islands.
