- have suffered very much in consequence of the bad Characters among them to whom they have sold Land; they are no doubt now sorry, not knowing what they had given away.
Can you state the Quantity of Land which has been sold, and is now the Property of Europeans, in the Northern Island?
- No, I cannot. It is a very notorious Fact that a very large Proportion of Northern Island belongs to Europeans, a great deal at Hokianga, Bay of Islands, and about the River Thames, Turangai, Wykatti, as well as in several other Parts.
It has been purchased for a few Blankets and a few Axes, perhaps?
- I should say hardly for any Value; a few Muskets, Blankets, &c.
If the Chiefs progress in Civilization will not they become aware that they have been cheated by the Persons who first went into that Country and purchased those Lands?
- I think they will be aware that they had made very bad Bargains, but I think they will hold to their Bargains, when once arranged, as being quite sacred.
Do you think, if you were to purchase 3,000 Acres in the Northern Island, and come home to England, and stay for Three or Four Years, they would allow you, on going back, to take Possession of that Land?
- Yes, I do.
Have you ever heard of a Case to the contrary?
- No. I should say that in the Case of that Land I possess, though only a Gift, it is to be considered as mine for ever.
If you permitted Persons to purchase Land you would afford Security to the Natives to prevent their selling a certain Part which they might require for their own Use?
- Most decidedly. I think that Europeans should not take that Land from them; in fact they would never consent to it.
Do you think they would become Agriculturists?
- Certainly; they cultivate uncommonly well now; they fence in their Land, and cultivate with much Regularity; their Potatoes are cultivated better than by many of our Settlers in New South Wales.
Do you think it would be very easy to keep the Population in the Northern Island in any thing like good Order?
- By taking Possession of the Island it would; but there being no Laws, we scarcely know Half the Atrocities which take place now.
Would not an armed Force be required to carry the Laws into execution?
- Yes.
Nothing can be worse than the State of Society in the Bay of Islands?
- I understand it is as bad as it can be; it consists of Persons who have run away from Sydney in Debt, Convicts, and very bad Characters who have left Whaling Vessels, and the worst of Characters that can be.
Did you sign a Petition to the King respecting New Zealand?
- No, I did not; that is a Relation of mine. I visited New Zealand quite on a Tour of Pleasure; I chartered a Ship, and intended going round the Islands; I have large Establishments in New South Wales and the other Australasian Colonies.
Did you visit any Schools connected with the Missionaries?
- No; I did not go to that Part of the Island where the Missionaries are established.
You saw no Missionary while you were there?
- No.
Were the Natives you saw most of them Heathens or Christians?
- I should think they were Heathens; but they are such a fine intelligent Race of People, and susceptible of high intellectual Attainments, any thing could be made of them. I have had them down in the Cabin of the Ship, and shown them
