but positively never by the application of light!" He distinguished between cold and warm tones, but to get light from the opposition of colours was for him a thing apart. It was possible for him to paint a picture in black and white, thereby bringing it close to drawing, which is to say, to painting in tones. But one can also paint with colours only, like Turner, who went counter to all this by confining himself to the closer and farther contrasts, thus breaking the circuit of tones. Matisse, for instance, did not think much of the uniting of three harmonies which Seurat was working for, much to the surprise of this latter artist.
Matisse's most frequent word of censure at the school was, "There is a hole here; this tone is not full." He went so far in this respect that he once hunted with Marquet the places in all the pictures at the Louvre which were not full and which consequently left holes. They found these holes in many pictures. "If you put black on an object which is in the light and is yellow in colour, this makes a hole; a warm, somewhat brown colour should be used, which looks black but is at the same time full."
Matisse often spoke of Gustave Moreau's studio, a free studio in which he and almost all the younger French painters have worked. I shall name only Derain, Puy, Camoin, Manguin, Marquet, and the Norwegian, Munch. One day Matisse read Signac's book, and he hunted up the painter to work with him. A friend of his was laughing to me once about the fact that even Matisse had submitted to the somewhat ridiculous division of labour which was practised there, but Matisse said, "The breaking of colour gave me freedom and the knowledge of pure colour." Matisse showed me a picture from a certain period; "Gauguin could have helped me with that." His influence on Matisse was stronger than that of van Gogh. Also, one should not underestimate the influence which Odilon Redon had on him. At another time Matisse was in close personal relations with Pissarro. Then again, he tried to become a student of Rodin’s. He submitted some drawings, and when Rodin rejected them he worked under Bourdelle, to get at least a second-hand acquaintanceship with Rodin's ideas. Also, for a long while Matisse made use of all sorts of mechanical appliances.
"I have never tried to avoid the influence of others. If I had, I should look upon it as cowardice and a disastrous lack of seriousness.
