Index talk:Ora Maritima.djvu

This work is cross-posted to both the English language wikisource and the Latin language wikisource (https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Liber:Ora_Maritima.djvu).

To avoid duplication of effort, for most pages, corrected text should be posted either on the English wiki or on the Latin wiki, but not both. We will use the iwpages tag to copy text from one to the other.

There is a problem with {{iwpages}} (see, for example, en:The seven great hymns of the mediaeval church). If you go to the English wiki web page for that book, you get links to all the content in both English and Latin. But if you try to download the book, you get a PDF/ePub/etc. with only the English text–none of the Latin text.

This book is usable if it is broken into two ebooks, the English ebook and the Latin ebook. However, some pages (notably the title page and the table of contents) are necessary in both ebooks, and so those pages have been copied and pasted rather than {{iwpages}}ed.

Since we can include pp. 27--62 in one iwpages tag, we're going to just put the entire Latin text on p. 27 and declare pp. 28--62 blank.

Examples:

(Text on en.wikisource.org)
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Ora_Maritima.djvu/15
https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Pagina:Ora_Maritima.djvu/15

(Text on la.wikisource.org)
https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Pagina:Ora_Maritima.djvu/27
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Ora_Maritima.djvu/27

(More complete work using the iwpage tag)
https://br.wikisource.org/wiki/Pajenn:Barzaz_Breiz,_huiti%C3%A8me_%C3%A9dition.djvu
https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:Barzaz_Breiz,_huiti%C3%A8me_%C3%A9dition.djvu

Persimmon and Hazelnut (talk) 11:45, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

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Latin text on p. 27--62 (23--58) should be entered on the Latin wiki at https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Liber:Ora_Maritima.djvu

We can discuss which pages should be "la" and which should be "en" if you disagree. I've assumed that everything except the actual Latin text goes on the English wiki. Persimmon and Hazelnut (talk) 21:31, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

@Persimmon and Hazelnut: Aww, this book brings back memories. I would argue that since it is a textbook, the entire work belongs on enWS. Otherwise, it would be bizarre to have the text on one WS and the explanation on another. Thank you for working on this book! Languageseeker (talk) 00:52, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

If I understand the iwpage tag correctly, then functionally the entire book will be on both laWS and enWS. That is, if you download the (I hope eventually completed) book, you'll get the whole thing. In the meantime, if you go to https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Ora_Maritima.djvu/27, you will see a link to and a copy of the corresponding Latin page.

The people at laWS suggested putting the book on both wikis and setting them to synchronize with each other. This seems to be the closest we can do.

I am following the example here:

https://br.wikisource.org/wiki/Pajenn:Barzaz_Breiz,_huiti%C3%A8me_%C3%A9dition.djvu

https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:Barzaz_Breiz,_huiti%C3%A8me_%C3%A9dition.djvu

Persimmon and Hazelnut (talk) 17:16, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Multipage iwpages

It seems that iwpages doesn't handle tables very well: if we use {{iwpages|la|Ora_Maritima.djvu|13|13}} and {{iwpages|la|Ora_Maritima.djvu|14|14}}, and pages 13 and 14 are two halves of a table (in this case, the table of contents), then the table breaks on the second page. To solve this, we use {{iwpages|la|Ora_Maritima.djvu|13|14}} (so both pages are in one iwpages tag) on p. 13 and mark p. 14 as blank. (I don't think there's an official wiki markup for "the text of this page is transcribed on another page", so "blank" is probably the best we can do. Persimmon and Hazelnut (talk) 15:16, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes this seems difficult to fix. --JimKillock (talk) 08:01, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Also, I think it's easier to use one iwpages tage (on p. 27) for the entire Latin text, pp. 27--62, and then we can just mark the following pages blank (marking them blank is easier than marking them with one-page iwpages tags, and doesn't require validation). Persimmon and Hazelnut (talk) 15:26, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

The risk is user confusion; this is fine but if a user accidentally finds the page as marked blank, they may start transcribing it. The solution you found using the single {{iwpage|en}} is better, as it points the user to the page they should edit. --JimKillock (talk) 07:51, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

It seems the references back to the right pages using {{iwpage|la}} isn't working here for some reason. Odd. --JimKillock (talk) 08:01, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

I just discovered that there is a problem with {{iwpage}} as used in, for example, The seven great hymns of the mediaeval church. If you go to the English wiki web page for that book, you get links to all the content in Latin. But if you try to download the book, you get a PDF/ePub/etc. with only the English text–none of the Latin text. I didn't know about this restriction when I set up Ora Maritima and I wouldn't have used the {{iwpage}} strategy if I had. I'm trying to decide if this is a dealbreaker and if we should move everything over to the Latin wiki. Thoughts? Persimmon and Hazelnut (talk) 18:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

That sounds like quite a serious bug that Wikisource should be keen to see fixed. We should try to get it fixed, or see if it is being fixed. There is a help page here, and there is a bug reporting system called Phabricator. If that doesn't look like working we can fix this one book. --JimKillock (talk) 08:47, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Also, thank you for proofreading this! Persimmon and Hazelnut (talk) 18:56, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

No problem at all. I'm trying to bring together people who are interested in proofreading Latin learner texts; I tried to ping you on the Latin Wikisource chat, there are three of us working on the Latin story within Ora Maritima. I don't much fancy doing the excercises but I am happy to double check them. --JimKillock (talk) 08:47, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Wiki headings

I took out a few wiki style headings, eg ==headng== and replaced with {{c|{{x-larger|heading}}}}; I hope this is ok. The reason is that Wiki headings include edit links which break on Wikisource. --JimKillock (talk) 07:53, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Redacted words

Wikisource policy seems to be that we should make this text match the original as much as possible—no edits—and then if we want to edit the text in any way we should make a new work that is a copy of this.

There is a word that appears on p. 79 and 152 that I want to delete. The text is:

niger, nigra, nigrum, black, [ethnic slur]

I don't think the [ethnic slur] adds much to the text and it's extremely uncomfortable to read. And I don't want to make a whole new copy of the entire book to delete two words. I'm going to leave these two words out. If you feel strongly that Wikisource needs a copy of this book with the ethnic slurs intact, I suppose we can duplicate the whole thing, but that seems excessive to me. Persimmon and Hazelnut (talk) 14:14, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

@Persimmon and Hazelnut No matter how despicable that word is, it has to remain. Hiding the history of racism doesn't make it go away, it obscures it. The usage of that word demonstrates the role that schools played in spreading and teaching racism. Beyond that, removing it would violate enWS policy. Languageseeker (talk) 16:58, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Noted. Persimmon and Hazelnut (talk) 17:01, 19 August 2022 (UTC)