Scriptorium Scriptorium (Help) Archives, Last archive
The Scriptorium is Wikisource's community discussion page. This subpage is especially designated for requests for help from more experienced Wikisourcers. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or a new one. Project members can often be found in the #wikisource IRC channel (a web client is available).

This page is automatically archived by Wikisource-bot

Have you seen our help pages and FAQs?

Linking to different sections of a periodicalEdit

I'm validating some pages for the Popular Science Monthly Magazine Vol 19 and I've come across an article on page 324 (printed pagination) with a footnote "Continued from page 197." So my questions: 1) Would it appropriate in such a case to embed a helpful link in the "[To be continued.]" sign on page 197? 2) If so, how would I best go about doing this: perhaps with the anchor template in the page namespace? Thanks Helrasincke (talk) 10:48, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

naming of items without obvious nameEdit

i recently started adding the royal warrant granting the coat of arms of Australia see Index:Royal warrant of coat of arms of Australia.png. how should i go about naming sources like this with no obvious name?Serprinss (talk) 06:17, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

@Serprinss If there's truly no known "parent" work that it could be a subpage of, then any sensible name like Royal Warrant Granting of Coat of Arms of Australia (1912) would do fine (I only added the 1912 because I see there's another warrant from 1908, if there were just one, you would not need this).
Often these things are extracted from some collective work like w:Hansard or some other government gazette, in which case they should theoretically be subpages of the work as published, but if you don't know the parent work, then it's OK. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 09:00, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Table Trouble AgainEdit

I'm currently dealing with Page:Bribery Act 2010 (UKPGA 2010-23 qp).pdf/18, in which there is a minor problem relating to the column header of the text. As this will be used as a basis for other British laws, I'd like to ask how to achieve the desired effect (i.e. no straight line between "Short title and chapter" and "Extent of repeal or revocation") as generated in the index? Many thanks.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:05, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

@廣九直通車 the easiest thing to do is to style it with CSS using Index:Bribery Act 2010 (UKPGA 2010-23 qp).pdf/styles.css and then use ! syntax to define the headings as actual table headings, and give those cell a special style by selecting tr.
The HTML attributes rule and frame are deprecated in modern web standards. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 13:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: Many thanks, but what did you just did actually? Or more precisely, what is the CSS stuff?廣九直通車 (talk) 13:35, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
It depends. If the formatting is re-usable across multiple documents, the best thing will be to create a template (e.g. named {{UKPGA schedule table start}}, but the exact name will rather depend on where this kind of table is used). Then you put the CSS at Template:UKPGA schedule table start/styles.css and the template would be something like:
<templatestyles src="UKPGA schedule table start/styles.css" />
{| class="wst-ukpga-schedule-table"
and the rest of the table is as normal.
If the formatting varies between documents, it might be easier to just use custom CSS in the index's own CSS each time. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 13:40, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Just another humble request, it seems that the bottom line is not added. I think when all the pages are complied, the bottom line between "Scotland Act 1998 (c. 46)" (in p. 18 bottom) and "Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 (c. 24)" (in p. 19 top) should not appear (i.e. using {{nopt}} and placing the table end for p. 18 at the footer, and table beginning for p. 19 at the header). Can CSS do this?廣九直通車 (talk) 13:46, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
@廣九直通車, yes, you can just set border-bottom: 1px solid black; on the table's class. It will have a bottom border at the end of the page in page namespace, but at the end of the whole table in the transclusion. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 13:57, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Two types of tables used in UK ActsEdit

I've take a look on the styles, and in general, it seems that the Stationary Office used two type of tables when printing British Acts:

Can someone familiar with CSS consider create corresponding templates (like, Template:UKPGA schedule format 1/styles.css and so)? Many thanks.廣九直通車 (talk) 08:40, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

@Inductiveload: Sorry to interrupt you again, I've tried to mimick that kind of table format on Index:Criminal Damage Act 1971 (UKPGA 1971-48 qp).pdf/styles.css, but it seems don't working. Can you help with the table style? Many thanks.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:43, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
@廣九直通車 perhaps, but I can't see any table that actually uses that class, so I can't test anything without also having to transcribe the table itself. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 13:53, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: Thanks for your reminder. Based on the tested style on Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997, I've made a test version on Page:Criminal Damage Act 1971 (UKPGA 1971-48 qp).pdf/9 and Page:Criminal Damage Act 1971 (UKPGA 1971-48 qp).pdf/10. It looks almost the same, except that for unfinished tables, there should be no bottom line at the ending of the ended table.廣九直通車 (talk) 14:12, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
@廣九直通車 I don't think the presence or not of that bottom line in page namespace matters much. If you wanted to, you could override manually with something like {{page other|1=style="border-bottom:none;"}} to suppress it in page namespace only. You can also use CSS to target page NS only by targetting .ns-104. But, IMO it's a waste of time to worry too much about Page NS presentation. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 14:21, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Headers and footersEdit

Esme Shepherd (talk) 15:36, 12 November 2021 (UTC) Why have headers and footers suddenly disappeared? I can't put a header on the main page because it remains visable on transclusion. Are headers being dispensed with?

Esme Shepherd (talk) 15:42, 12 November 2021 (UTC) Ok. I have found the tool under Proofread tools. I was just surprised at the sudden disappearance.

Esme Shepherd (talk) 15:50, 12 November 2021 (UTC) I note also that the summary box no longer remembers previous usage, so the single letter 'h' will have to suffice for 'header'.

The prefill list for that field is stored (I think) in your browser, not in Wikisource. So if you've changed browser or computer or otherwise reset something, that could be it. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:16, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 20:59, 12 November 2021 (UTC) Thank you. All is well again. I am about to change computer, so I'll bear that in mind when I do.

Transcribing Valuable Data from Biodiversity Field Notes? Is this possible?Edit

Dear Wikisource Experts,

I'm investigating the use of Wikisource as a citizen science platform for scientific data transcription. This transcription activity is similar in nature to the Old Weather project but with a focus on the extraction of biodiversity data. Currently, there is a lot of data that is buried in these digitized historical texts. Here is just one example of the content:

Is there anyone in the Wikisource community that has experience transcribing tables and if so would it be possible to chat with you to understand your process? I have three main questions:

Is this transcription work of interest to the Wikisource volunteer community? Can/Could Wikisource import and export data formats? e.g. csv, xls, tsv, json, xml? If not, do you know of any other transcription platforms that can transcribe data?

Many thanks,

--JJFord BHL (talk) 22:59, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

@User:JJFord BHL The answer is that, yes, Wikisource can be used for such data. However, it doesn't represent such data in any inherently structured format that would map directly to something like CSV. At best you could use a carefully arranged HTML table and hope that the format is consistent enough for handling. And for importation, you'd need some kind of script to generate the markup for display.
At a technical level, an extension or sufficiently advanced scripts might be able to provide an editor and exporter specifically for this data, but it's very doubtful that such a niche thing would find traction at a general purpose project like WS. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 23:19, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
I made a separate page for some type species so that they could be used at wikidata (wikidata doesn't accept id links) and even though they were connected to wikidata, they were deleted. I see the dead links for them at wikispecies sometimes. JJFord BHL this is a very good place for all biodiversity poetry.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 02:58, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
@Inductiveload and @RaboKarbakian would either of you be interested in being interviewed about Wikisource in general? The BHL Secretariat has sponsored the writing of a whitepaper on the Wikimedia Ecosystem and they would like to understand the Wikisource community and platform a bit more and how it can assist with their OCR challenges. (273,000 OCR files to date in BHL)
If an virtual meet-up is of interest please feel free to add yourself to my calendar here. Many thanks for your helpful responses regarding tabular data -- I understand that this content is challenging to handle from my talks with others who are active transcribers.
Hope to speak with you soon, warmly,
JJFord BHL (talk) JJFord BHL (talk) 20:04, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
@User:JJFord BHL You picked a good time to try out such a project because of two major upcoming changes that will make this easier. First, Wikisource is getting a new imageviewer for the Proofreader Page extension baesd on Seadragon that makes magnification and panning much easier. Second, their is a new generator coming thanks to Inductiveload that will make it easier to export all the pages from an Index. One of the biggest challenge will be getting images of sufficient resolution so that they can be legible. You can do an image based Index which generally run better than a massive PDF. Also, think about how you want to structure the data. A consistent structure will be easier to parse than a hodgepodge. My hunch is that raw wikicode will be easier to import than processeded HTML. Languageseeker (talk) 00:11, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Poetry in the main: conventions, recommendations, good practices?Edit

I encountered a fully transcribed work that was not yet transcluded: Index:Memoir and poems of Phillis Wheatley, a native African and a slave.djvu and thought I would transclude it Memoir and Poems of Phillis Wheatley, a Native African and Slave. I checked around (a bit) and saw that the "chapters" for works of poetry are typically the name of the poem.

The poems in this book have really long names and the title of the work is also really long. If I just do this with those names, the pages will be like: Memoir and Poems of Phillis Wheatley, a Native African and Slave/To a Lady, on her coming to North America with her Son, for the Recovery of her Health and I am not happy with this.

I would like to shorten everything, like Memoir and Poems of Phillis Wheatley and Memoir and Poems of Phillis Wheatley/To a Lady, on her coming to North America with her Son (which is still long) as there is another "To a Lady" in the collection. But I will happily do whatever the conventional thing is, once I know what that is.

Also, with this question and in regards to my last comment here about poetry: If you have something snarky to say, please 1) say it (it will be appreciated by me, really) 2) say it on my talk page and not here. And if this suggestion causes snark to be, all the better, but on my talk page.  :) Thank you.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 16:01, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

  • RaboKarbakian: “To a Lady (1)” and “To a Lady (2)” is what I would do. A few of the other poem names should be shortened, as well: “Lines, on hearing of the Intention of a Gentleman to purchase the Poet's Freedom” can be shortened to “Lines,” &c. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 16:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
  • IMO, far too much effort and worry is expended on page titles in general. They're strings that identify the work a little more readably than the page ID numbers, and that's about the measure of them. The only actually functional part of page titles is the slashes that organise pages into a subpage hierarchy, everything else is window dressing. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 16:27, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Additional suggestion: It is not necessary for the primary page to use the full title. The primary page could simply be Memoir and Poems of Phillis Wheatley, without the subtitle. It is only necessary that the primary page be unique. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:03, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
Phshew and thank you!--RaboKarbakian (talk) 17:08, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Best practice for missing words in source scan?Edit

In The Poetical Works of John Keats, two lines in book II of "Endymion" are printed defectively in the original scan:

Gold dome, and crystal wall, and turquoise <floor>, (II.596)
High with excessive love. "And now," thought <he,> (II.904)

Can/should anything be done about this? If so, what? (A SIC template, perhaps?) Eureiachthon (talk) 19:47, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

I usually use the {{SIC}} template in those situations. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:50, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks very much; that's what I'll do, then. Eureiachthon (talk) 20:13, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
There is also {{reconstruct}} which uses the appropriate brackets for words inserted by a transcriber/translator to ensure accuracy or sense. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
I also had this very issue in the book I am doing. An editor suggested searching for the nearby words of the missing/unclear word on Google with quotes. This helped me two times so far on my book. You too can try it for yours. Lightbluerain (Talk | contribs) 18:21, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

magnifying toolbar tool is messed upEdit

First the magification group was moved from the toolbar to the top right of the editing box and the vertical scrolling is broken. It only magnifies or reduces the image but cannot be scrolled no matter how many times it's clicked. — Ineuw (talk) 02:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

The top right is the new place for the viewport controls for the OpenSeadragon-based viewer (there will be more once the OSD patch queue is addressed: rotation and marker lines, which you can see in action here)
As for the scroll behaviour, it's currently got the default OSD configuration, which is click to zoom in, drag to pan and scroll to zoom. I set up phab:T296079 to evaluate if we should re-implement the old system as-was, or find out if there's a better option. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 12:20, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: Thanks for the technical explanation. My post was about not working, not that it was moved to a different location. I just want to be able to scroll the page. But, I see that it was reverted. Thanks.— Ineuw (talk) 17:28, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
@Ineuw it's not necessarily gone forever. it's just not yet implemented in exactly the same way in the first iteration of the new viewer. It's only been deployed for a day, ironing out usability bugs will happen.
If you (and everyone else!) could comment on phab:T296079 (or here, I guess) about what your ideal interface would be, OSD is probably flexible enough to make it happen. For example "scroll = scroll up/down, Ctrl-scroll = zoom, Shift-scroll = sideways scroll" is a very common way to do it. We can (probably) make it feel exactly like it used to, but perhaps we can do even better. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:39, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay. I had to re-register my phabricator account access - it's been so long. I am in the midst of a long reply to this post, but first thing first. Don't introduce two handed operation like a keyboard and a mouse, where the mouse middle click, or an imitation of it, was sufficient until now.— Ineuw (talk) 18:40, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
@Ineuw That's a valid point. Personally (bear in mind, I did not implement the PRP OSD viewer, I have just been adding on top of someone else's implementation, so I didn't "do" anything here in terms of the UX) I almost always have my left hand on they keyboard so Ctrl-scroll is much faster for me (especially as the click-to-toggle was always very buggy for me), but it's important to hear how everyone uses the tools.
Also more things to bear in mind:
  • this weeks release train has been rolled back for unrelated technical reasons (a memory leak), so OSD is reverted too. I am not sure if it will be un-reverted, so OSD might be nixed until -11 (not -10, because...)
  • there is no release next week, so we have nearly two weeks to come up with and merge an "ideal" solution anyway
  • if it turn out we have multiple different "ideals" for different people, we can actually have it user configurable (it's already going to be configurable for things like animation speed and zoom rate) Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 19:16, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

This problem is back. It's the same problem. Cannot scroll the scan. It changes the magnification instead. Aren't these changes tested??????— Ineuw (talk) 23:30, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps I can copy this script to my namespace and remove the magnification? All I would need is the script's name.— Ineuw (talk) 01:01, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Namibian Acts: Move to En:WS and Formatting IssuesEdit

I recently nominated the Promulgation of National Symbols of the Republic of Namibia Act, 2018 and National Anthem of the Republic of Namibia Act, 1991 on Commons for deletion, as Namibian copyright law protects government works for 50 year since publication, plus there are no exemptions for edicts. Can someone move the two files to English Wikisource locally under {{PD-EdictGov}}? Many thanks.廣九直通車 (talk) 10:15, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Besides, the format adopted by MarkLSteadman seems to be quite inconvenient for searching and categorization. Will it be better to cleanup the format and titles based on South African legislation, as Namibian legislation share similar format and structure with their South African counterparts?廣九直通車 (talk) 10:15, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

technical issueEdit

Not very sure if this is some technical issue or what? I use Wikisource through mobile in desktop mode. Everytime I go to the edit tab, while matching the OCR-ed text with the text in the photo by enlarging in the photo in the edit window, I cannot get out of the photo: if I try to zoom out, the photo gets zooned out; if I try to swipe through the screen, the photo gets swiped not the window. I only see the option to reload the tab, which sometimes looses the unsaved edits. Anyone knows the reason behind it? And, is there any solution other than matching the text before entering the edit tab? Lightbluerain (Talk | contribs) 18:37, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

They've changed the way Zoom function works on the scanned page. To avoid this problem, tap/swipe/select in a location other than the photo. It will take some getting used to the new mechanics. I still try to scroll using my mouse, but end up zooming in/out on the photo. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:16, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Racist text in old booksEdit

I am in the process of transcluding a book of poetry to Cy Wikisource. It's a book from the turn of the 19/20 C. I have some dilemmas regarding one of the poems which is extremely racist. The translated title would be "S***o and the pipe - he wants to be white". The poem is a moral lesson in the evils of smoking. It talks about a boy of African descent smoking a pipe in order to be as good as a white man, but the tobacco makes him ill. The moral is that smoking never improves your status. What should I do with the poem 1) Publish it, to be true to the original work, 2) Publish it with a note of explanation of the aspects of the period, with a disclaimer on the part of Wikisource, 3) Completely omit it?

If I do publish it, with or without comment, would I (and / or Wikisource) be liable for publishing racially hateful materials under the laws of the US; where the poem would be hosted, or England and Wales from whence it would be published? AlwynapHuw (talk) 03:30, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@AlwynapHuw: The goal of Wikisource is to accurately digitize and preserve texts. Such texts, while deeply problematic, provide crucial evidence of past values and beliefs. Altering such texts would destroy evidence of past racism. Their transcription does not reflect either that of the transcriber or that of enWS. Languageseeker (talk) 03:38, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
@Languageseeker: Thank you very much for your prompt reply. This is the first time I have encountered the issue so your guidance on how to deal with it is very much appreciated. AlwynapHuw (talk) 18:50, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Please delete these:Edit

I am trying to get rid of schizophretic software. Thank you.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 15:01, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

  Done --Jan Kameníček (talk) 16:35, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Move Constitution of Brazil and related pagesEdit

There's no "move" option at the top of the page for regular editors, unfortunately. These are clearer titles, especially when more parts/versions are translated and uploaded here.

If anyone with moving priviledges could move these that would be great, thanks. Linshee (talk) 00:18, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Linshee look at the menu under "More" at the top of the page.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 02:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
RaboKarbakian I'm only seeing "Purge", "Hard Purge", and "Null edit" Linshee (talk) 12:46, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
Linshee Ah, I am sorry. There is an admin here who doesn't like to delete redirects. I can move them, but I cannot delete the redirects and was told not to move things when I left a lot of those not wanted redirects. Hmm, I think that I even tagged them with sdelete.... Apparently, the admin have tools that can make these moves and also delete the leftovers but it also puts a lot of work on them either way. Whether or not this is due to the recent admin who doesn't like to delete things that have been moved, I am sorry that I got involved and pointed you in the wrong direction. That "Move" would have been removed due to a vote of one, iirc.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 16:56, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
There was no vote, and this page is not protected. Move is not available for User:Linshee because they are not yet autoconfirmed here at English Wikisource, as they have only 4 edits (10 are needed). You must be autoconfirmed to be able to move pages at all. This is not special for enWS, it's a standard right that comes with autoconfirmation. Indeed, you must be a sysop to move pages without leaving redirects (since this is functionally a move-then-delete).
@Linshee I will move the pages for you, but if you make 6 more edits, you will be able to move things as well. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:19, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  Done (but the pages are numbered in Arabic numerals in line with wider convention, so the links are "Title 3", etc). Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:38, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

How to transclude pages missing in DjVu?Edit

Hi all, Please have a look at s:nl:Index:Frederik van Eeden-Johannes Viator(1895).djvu. Page 123 and some others are missing from the DjVu file. Therefore, they do not show up in the readable version, e.g., note 123 missing. How to fix this? TIA, henne (talk) 21:48, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

@Hamaryns what you can do here is proofread the page from an alternative source (which appears to have been done). The text will transclude as normal, even if the scan image is just a placeholder. Normally, you should leave a note somewhere, perhaps on the index talk page and a comment <!-- like this--> on the page to inform future editors where the text came from.
You can also optionally repair the scan file by inserting pages from an alternative source. WS:LAB can help you with that: to request such a repair you would just need to indicate where the alternative pages can be found and which pages need to be replaced. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 22:12, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: I’m not sure I understand you correctly. Pages 123 and 127 are proofread, but if you go to the reading version ([1]), they are not there.
I will have look at repairing the file, but I do not have a scan of the missing pages. Hamaryns (talk) 19:29, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
@Hamaryns: -- Those two pages have the format png, not djvu. They are not actually part of the file. That's why they are not showing up on transclusion. Hrishikes (talk) 01:23, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
@Hamaryns: -- As for the missing pages, they are available in the HathiTrust scan. -- Hrishikes (talk) 01:45, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Merging Two IndexesEdit

A Roster of General Officers has been proofread from Index:Southern Historical Society Papers volume 03.djvu and Index:Roster of General Officers (1872) by Charles C Jones Jr.djvu. It's not really missing pages, but two duplicate scans that need to be merged together. Languageseeker (talk) 22:19, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

If I understand corectly, these are not duplicate scans. Rather, one scan includes the same material as part of the scan which makes up the entirety of the other scan. "Merging" these would involve moving all of the pages from the shorter scan by both renaming and renumbering them. Is this correct? --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:32, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Yes, that is correct. Languageseeker (talk) 23:07, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
The other potential issue I see is that many pages are page-spreads in the shorter scan, but are individual pages in the longer scan. This isn't simply a matter of transfer of pages, because the page-spreads are tables of information. Splitting a table vertically across two pages is not a simple thing to do. It might be better to simply keep the shorter scan separate. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:22, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
I fine with transferring the pages from the longer scan to the shorter scan. It just feels like A Roster of General Officers should be transcluded from one source. Languageseeker (talk) 23:42, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Charinsert helpEdit

Hello, I'm having a problem with my custom charinsert. I'd like to add <div style="line-height:1.3;"> but the decimal in 1.3 is interpereted as a space. Is there a way fix to this? Jpez (talk) 06:03, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

@Jpez: Where are you trying this? When I input
|style="vertical-align:top; line-height:1;"|Testing<br/>
|style="vertical-align:top; line-height:1.3;"|Testing<br/>
|style="vertical-align:top; line-height:1.5;"|Testing<br/>
|style="vertical-align:top; line-height:2;"|Testing<br/>
the result is










which looks like the 1.3 line height is working. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talkcontribs) 01:38, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

It's in the charinsert tool where you can enter your own custom entries. Line 17 here
Jpez (talk) 05:09, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
@Jpez: Please don't use raw HTML markup in works. If you need to adjust the line height (and think carefully about whether you really need to do that; on, e.g., Page:Heaven Revealed.djvu/216 replicating the tighter line spacing is not strictly needed), use the {{lh}} or {{lh2/s}} templates. There is now also the possibility to apply CSS per work using the "Styles" tab shown on the Index: page, which can target the containers provided by other templates. Xover (talk) 09:24, 4 December 2021 (UTC)