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Formatting HelpEdit

Hi, I need help in formatting this page. I do not know how to make border boxes. --Abhinav619 (talk) 06:55, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

@Abhinav619: you can use the template {{border}} for border boxes, and {{rule}} for horizontal lines —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:43, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Anthology of Modern Slavonic LiteratureEdit

I have uploaded File:Anthology of Modern Slavonic Literature in Prose and Verse by Paul Selver.djvu from, but only then I noticed that there are several pages missing at the end of the book. Hathi has more copies, but they are not available outside the U. S. I tried downloading them with the Hathi Download Helper, but it failed this time for some reason. May I ask somebody from the U. S. to replace the file? Thanks very much! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:38, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

I think it will make no harm when I start proofreading, and if the pages don't match after the files are replaced later, they can be moved. But it would be great if somebody were able to get a better copy. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:51, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
  Done but the quality isn't the best. Also there is no ocr but you can use the ocr button for that. I'll see if I can create a better copy when I have the time. Jpez (talk) 05:13, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
@Jpez: Thanks very much! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 09:10, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

This page problematic?Edit

This page was previously deleted on 16 September 2012 by George Orwell III who unfortunately does not seem to be around atm. Is it good to create and proofread? Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 09:36, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes, was formerly used with a different scan, you can create it again for this new scan. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 11:28, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks!Zoeannl (talk) 07:26, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Use of a Government Seal (Question)Edit

I have almost completed 2015 Philadelphia train derailment NTSB report, but I have a concern about this page. It uses an official government seal (this one). While it is listed as in the public domain, use of a government seal is decently regulated.

At the moment, I have written [Seal Omitted]. Should I leave it as that or add in the seal? Thank you, –MJLTalk 05:26, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

But the seal is in the public domain copyright-wise, and we won't have any copyright problems using it. There's no reason to not use an image that's already on Commons.--Prosfilaes (talk) 07:43, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
@Prosfilaes: Okay, then; thank you! I'll update the page now. :) –MJLTalk 11:22, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
Further to this: regardless of the copyright issues (which there are none), the fact that the government agency themselves placed the seal on this document means that we are not violating any regulations by reproducing the seal when we reproduce the document. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:25, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
Actually, that makes a ton of sense in retrospect. I had wanted to be on the safe side with this, but I am glad my to confirm these concerns were unfounded. –MJLTalk 03:53, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Header, main window and footer temporary resizing issueEdit

I reported this bug and wondered if anyone else has this problem. Would other editors check this and please reply here indicating the OS and the browser used? Thanks in advance.— Ineuw talk 03:45, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

It works for me (Firefox and Chrome); do you see the same problem when you are not logged in? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:16, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
@Beleg Tâl: an excellent idea. Thank you. It works when logged out.— P.S: Deleted all the cookies and logged in and the problem remains.— Ineuw talk 20:26, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
Issue is resolved. There was a code line in the common.css causing all of the above problems. Thanks again. — Ineuw talk 21:21, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

top caption with FIS?Edit

On this page {{FIS}} allows me to insert the floor plan the way it should be, except that as far as I can tell it doesn't allow for the caption at the top. Can the top caption be added using FIS, or is there another way to get the floor plan right? Levana Taylor (talk) 03:24, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

I would use {{img float}} instead. It's got an option for top captions. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:44, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
Problem with that: the "capalign" parameter of {{img float}} aligns both the top and bottom captions the same, whereas in this case the text above should be centered and the text below should be left or justified. Can some HTML expert suggest a way to get the correct result "by hand" instead? (replicating what img float does, but with separate alignments for top and bottom captions)? Likewise I want to put the bottom caption in smaller font than the top one, which means specifying different line heights. Levana Taylor (talk) 14:18, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Jesus and Satan meetingEdit

Some where in Ellen Whites writings, there is a reference when Jesus meet Satan some where in space and Satan wanted to return and Jesus turned and cried, where is that found? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

Have you looked at Author:Ellen Gould White? --EncycloPetey (talk) 13:38, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Wuthering HeightsEdit

Can this page be fixed? The OCR hasn't worked? Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 08:40, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

And this one? Zoeannl (talk) 09:40, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
It seems the text layer is either missing or incomplete. I used the WS OCR button to generate text, but this method has several issues, including (1) text rife with scannos, and (b) curly quotes instead of straight.
It may be worth looking for a better scan of the novel instead of proceeding with this particular file.
Also, we already have the 1st (UK) edition, and the 2nd (UK) edition of 1850 is considered the authoritative one. So, is the 1848 US edition worth having? --EncycloPetey (talk) 13:31, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
It must be your browser, it's working fine with Firefox (Mac) and Safari (Mac only). The only thing not working with me is the header - which says - wuraaaxnc acres-rs. 5 --kathleen wright5 (talk) 14:03, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
Not the browser. I created that text layer using the OCR button (see above). --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:31, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Any consensus? Should this be abandoned? The scan isn't a good one... Zoeannl (talk) 08:23, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

I would say so. It's a poor scan, with a bad text layer, for an unimportant edition, of a work for which we already have the 1st edition. The 2nd UK edition of 1850 would be valuable, but an early US edition of this novel is more a literary footnote. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:20, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

The name of the main namespace page does not link to the Table of Contents entryEdit

Can someone please look at these pages and tell me why a link is not made? The text in the Table of Contents was copied from the main namespace page title.

Main namespace page:

Table of Contents 1st entry:

Ineuw talk 08:15, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

I also ran this search and there are two main pages by the same name Page title search.— Ineuw talk 08:38, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Minuscule "e" in the word "expedition". --Jan Kameníček (talk) 09:08, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
I copy-pasted the link from the address bar that uses underscores instead of spaces, and it's linking now. I have no idea why it didn't work before though. Jpez (talk) 12:51, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Set this problem aside in the past few hours, But I think it's best to delete all main namespace pages cascading from the two roots, and then delete the root pages. — Ineuw talk 21:44, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Too long ContentsEdit

It seems that the Contents on the right side of Index:Anthology of Modern Slavonic Literature in Prose and Verse by Paul Selver.djvu is too long and so the last pages are not transcluded. May I ask for advice? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:26, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

The same transclusion problem has appeared at Anthology of Modern Slavonic Literature in Prose and Verse. Besides the last Contents pages the license template has not been transcluded either. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:50, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
@Jan.Kamenicek: Five pages of Contents are not too long. First, it helps if the pages appearing in the Contents list exist. There is an error somewhere in the list of contents. If you look at the end of transclusion on the index page, there appears three page numbers outside of the Contents structure. — Ineuw talk 16:43, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
@Ineuw:I looked at it again, but there are only existing and proofread pages transcluded. When I try to remove some of the the pages transcluded in the beginning and look at the preview, the pages in the end are transcluded without any problem. That is why I guess the problem is with the length of the pages (maybe they contain too many complicated templates...).--Jan Kameníček (talk) 16:52, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
@Jan.Kamenicek: Tried to find the problem by pasting all five pages into this sandbox. Please look at it if anything is missing. Unfortunately, I never used this template. Isn't there supposed to be end of list template?— Ineuw talk 17:17, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
@Ineuw:It is interesting that direct pasting resulted in more content being displayed in your sandbox, but still the last rows do not work. The documentation to the template {{Dotted TOC line}} does not say anything about ending the list. Anyway, when the list is shorter, it works well, see, e. g. this experiment, when it is longer, transclusion of the last pages stops working. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:15, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
@Jan.Kamenicek: You're definitely running into the post-expand include size limit (~2MB). II'm guessing the main culprit to be {{Dotted TOC line}}. Every single invocation of this template will spit out ~10k characters (and assuming all of them are stored as 8 bits, one byte, that's 10kB), meaning you can have a maximum of 200 of these before hitting the limit provided there are no other templates or content involved. Your pages break down like this (post-expand include size in bytes):
  • 19: 284,451
  • 20: 420,260
  • 21: 480,968
  • 22: 443,746 ← hitting limit here due to other content and templates.
  • 23: 457,835
  • 24: 122,368
My immediate advice would be to drop {{Dotted TOC line}}. I'm all for reproducing works visually as close as possible, but this particular template looks downright pathological: the sheer amount of markup it spits out for each single line is just astounding. For a long(ish) ToC it's never going to work reliably and will have a measurable impact on readers' systems (download time, performance). Case in point, replacing it with {{TOC line}} on Ineuw's sandbox reduces its post-expand include size from 2,097,152 bytes (capped by the limit) to 252,726 bytes. That is, something on the order of 90% of it comes from {{Dotted TOC line}}. --Xover (talk) 20:47, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
I was afraid the problem is something of this kind... It is quite bad if the dots have to be left out. The reason is not only the effort to reproduce the original, but dots really make such long lists much easier to read :-( --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:36, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
@Xover: A sincere thanks for the explanation. For table of Contents I always use tables. I find it to be very flexible. @Jan.Kamenicek: Sorry for the wrong info.— Ineuw talk 21:40, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
@Xover: I have replaced the template with {{Dotted TOC page listing}} which seems less massive and it helped. Thanks very much for pointing out the problem. @Ineuw: No problem, I do appreciate you tried to help me! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:05, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Should be no links to deleted redirect...Edit

Not understanding why this still has entries as I moved/updated all the pages to use the new edition stucture, Explanation? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:36, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Subpages keep links to parent pages. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:00, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
[edit conflict] It is possible that these are automatic backlinks generated because of the forward slashes. I.e. the software assumes that a page named Traffic Signs Manual/Chapter 3/2008/1 will be a subpage of Traffic Signs Manual/Chapter 3, and automatically create a link. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:02, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
I also see a number of redlinks in those pages that appear to need correcting, such as links to ".../Chapter 3/Chapter 5" in the text --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:02, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

2 columnsEdit

I'm working on this article and there is a page break where 2 columns begin. It is important that what is in the second column is exactly next to the corresponding part of the first, at Page:The Journal of English and Germanic Philology Volume 18.djvu/510. I don't know how to do this. Radioactive Pixie Dust (talk) 23:03, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

It also looks as though the line returns, at least in the left column, are deliberate. It may be easier to match the columns if you replicate these line returns instead of having the text wrap. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:59, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Drop initials are incompatible with other formatting...Edit

See: - Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 2.djvu/94. Can someone take a sledgehammer to the relevant templates and MAKE them interact in a SANE manner please, there having been considerable efforts made to make the templates used here not screw up the layout?.

If this isn't fixed I will consider nominating the ENTIRE cl-act-p based family for deletion, on the basis that they just seem to be too incompatible, It is not as if they are widely used. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:43, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

What I don't currently understand is why the same approach on Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 2.djvu/93 does NOT screw up the layout.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:46, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
These templates rely on floating elements. If you familiarize yourself with float positioning you should be able to figure these out. In this case, {{cl-act-p}} depends on {{margin block}} which by default clears floats to the left. This forces each cl-act-p block to appear below other cl-act-p blocks, or any other floated blocks that precede it. The dropinitial is also floated, and is not cleared, so it will be positioned beside the floated block immediately before it - which is the very last cl-act-p block. You can get around this by putting all the cl-act-p blocks inside a container block. The dropinitial will then be positioned next to the top of the container block (which is now the immediately preceding floated block) instead of next to the top of the very last cl-act-p block. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:01, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Right so dropintial is (currently) incompatible with cl-act-p, Perhaps at some indeterminate future date it will be possible for Wikisource to have templates that do not have obscure interactions issues, until then it seems an overly complicated and otherwise uncessary workaround is needed. What a shame :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:36, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps YOU are able to provide a "compatible" drop-initial template that doesn't rely on a contributor knowing precise CSS details and the minutiae of obscure Mediawiki/HTML/CSS interactions? Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:03, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
lol nope. Templates are just shortcuts for CSS. If you want to format a text with complicated floating blocks of text, it's up to you to understand how complicated floating blocks of text works. Dropinitial needs no further changes to work the vast majority of the time; if you want a version of dropinitial that accounts for the behaviour of whatever cl-act-thingy is, then that's on you. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 17:26, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Whilst that may be so, there wasn't anything in the documentation for {{di}} or {{intial}} that mentions this issue in any detail. Once again I am supposed to KNOW apparently by intution or telepathy, various miniutiiae of CSS/HTML/Mediawiki markup interactions. This is NOT conducive to positive long term contributions. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:18, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
The documentation for {{di}} explicitly says "This template simply generates a left-floated span (w/style display: block;) containing content with the proper CSS styles applied to it." Floated elements are well documented on MDN, W3Schools, and many many other websites. No intuition or telepathy required. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:57, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
The incompatibility of {{di}} with other "floating" templates is NOT howver documented. It seems I'm wasting my time trying to get anywhere with this issue (sigh).ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:12, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
See also Page:Test_page#Testing_/s_/e_version_(5d)_with_inline_at_start,_layout_specified_and_a_drop_initial_(I_said_let's_have_some_insanse_test_case!) , The 2 sidenotes/titles should be level with the dropinitial, but that seems to currently be outside the limitations of Mediawiki/CSS/HTML to handle in a SANE and CONSISTENT manner. As I said perhaps SOMONE ELSE can come up with an approach that means that the SAME concerns and arguments do not occur again and again EVERY SIX MONTHS until someone finally gets around to ACTUALLY providing the functionality needed, instead of stalling by saying it's down to me. Either work out a fix the templates or put it in the documentation, that DI and other templates can't be used alongside other 'floated' elements. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:25, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
From some further analysis it seems that what I am trying to do in terms of interactions is NOT currently feasible, due to CSS/HTML limitations. Hopefully when the CSS Text spec, properly supports true drop initials (and browsers do as well) this can be revisted. In the meantime the work around seems to be use a right-hand position for the sidetitles universally. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:39, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

OK, anyone here good with LUA code?Edit

Page:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large_-_vol_6.djvu/775, a template used on this page was recently updated. I can't figure out WHY the change should have caused something that worked previously to suddenly start generating BAD markup. Can someone else here please provide an explanation, and a repair, so that the templates behave in the SANE and DOCUMENTED way they are supposed to. Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:49, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with the linked page. What are you talking about? Which template? What update? Where is the bad markup? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:06, 16 April 2019 (UTC) and Template:cl-act-p/1, I put in a TEMPORARY fix by explicitly naming the text param. The template should be able to cope with the text being the unamed first parameter.(i.e an implied 1=}} which in the revision shown didn't work as expected. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:17, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

See also Template:Cl-act-p/testcases ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:54, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Which has been solved for the time being by reverting the changes made recently. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:18, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Tom SwiftEdit

I want to download the whole book Tom Swift and His Motor Cycle as pdf . What do I do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

It's my understanding that our PDF export function is still broken. If you need it in PDF format, your best bet may be to download the original book scan from Tâl (talk) 12:42, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Page-spanning tableEdit

Page 8 and Page 9 of The Lucknow Album are currently proofread as two separate tables, which is causing misalignment on transclusion. I have tried formatting as page-spanning table, but for some reason it is not working on transclusion. Can someone make a fresh attempt please? Hrishikes (talk) 08:06, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

  Done , looks like it was because page 8 and page 9 were transcluded separately with two separate <pages /> calls. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 11:38, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
Many thanks. I had overlooked that aspect. Hrishikes (talk) 16:19, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Book from Google booksEdit

Can somebody from the U.S. check, whether the following book is available in the United States, please? [1]

Thanks very much. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:59, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@Jan.Kamenicek: -- Is the book same as this: ? I can download this one. Hrishikes (talk) 17:00, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
@Hrishikes: That is exactly what I hoped to find out: whether the two books are identical or not :-)
However, I would be really glad if you downloaded at least the one from the Hathi Thrust. Thank you! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:12, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Index:President of the Czecho-Slovak Republic, Thomas G. Masaryk.pdf -- Hrishikes (talk) 01:19, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks very much! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 07:46, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Help with braces in a tableEdit

I marked this page "validated," but in retrospect my approach is pretty kludgey. Could somebody with a better understanding of how to handle curly braces in tables offer an alternative?


(Note, this is the final page needing validation in this work.) -Pete (talk) 18:46, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Alignment affecting line spacingEdit

I uploaded File:Sassoon, Siegfried - Counter-Attack and Other Poems (1918).djvu from the Internet Archive, and have taken a crack at correcting the OCR'd text and formatting it, but I'm having some issues with text alignment. Spefically, when I use {{centre|lorem ipsum}} or {{right|lorem ipsum}}, it seems to add spacing between the lines, as though they were new paragraphs. For example, on this page: Page:Sassoon,_Siegfried_-_Counter-Attack_and_Other_Poems_(1918).djvu/35, the following lines:

"The war'll be over soon."

"What 'opes ?"

"No bloody fear!"

have more spacing between them than ordinary lines do, despite there being no extra line spacing or paragraph breaks applied in the source.

Also, I'm not quite sure how to achieve the indenting style from the original text, as you can see on the same page, when a line runs over, it's a hanging indent, but the second line is right-aligned, but then slightly indented from the right margin. -- I, Podius (talk) 18:11, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

@I, Podius: {{center}}, {{left}}, and {{right}} all wrap their argument in a HTML <div></div>, which is a block element like <p></p>, and so will always have the same vertical whitespace properties. Your best bet is probably to leave the text as such left-aligned but use {{gap}} to indent the relevant lines a suitable amount. I wouldn't worry about that final word on the last line. It doesn't appear to be deliberately wrapped for artistic reasons: it's just wrapped due to the space constraints of physical books. The weird alignment is just to mark such a wrapping point. Just unwrap these lines and you won't need to worry about trying to reproduce it. --Xover (talk) 18:36, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
@Xover: Ah, I see! What annoying behaviour. That's good to know. I wasn't sure how closely I should try to match the original formatting, so that's helpful; I'll just add a standard hanging indent for when the text wraps, in that case. Thank you! I, Podius (talk) 03:29, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
See also Wikisource:Scriptorium#blocks of text w/o blank lines between paragraphs. I have tried the method there, of removing automatic paragraph margins by surrounding every paragraph with {{p|m0}}</p>, and it works fine. Two clarifications: 1. {{p|m0}}</p> should be placed inside all <div> templates such as {{right}} 2. You can specify spacing before and after a block of no-paragraph-break text by using {{dhr}} Levana Taylor (talk) 19:48, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
@Levana Taylor: Very helpful, thank you! It took me a while to figure out how to get it working because I didn't realise I needed to add {{p|m0}}</p> to the preceding and following paragraphs, as well. But now it all looks right. Cheers! I, Podius (talk) 03:29, 26 April 2019 (UTC)


I found the English translation from the 2 vol. books Travels in Brazil, in the years 1817-1820 by Carl Friedrich Philipp von Martius and Johann Baptist von Spix and I'm having a problem: I know that, by the date (1824) is Public Domain worldwide, but I'd like to credit the translator (that only goes by the name "H. E. Lloyd") and I cound't find anything about him. Someone here can help? Thanks, Erick Soares3 (talk) 16:17, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

@Erick Soares3: It's Hannibal Evans Lloyd (1771–1847). --Xover (talk) 16:49, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
@Xover: Thanks! Ĩ will soon upload the books! Erick Soares3 (talk) 17:11, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots)Edit

I would like to proofread the play R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots) by Karel Čapek (the one which introduced the word "robot" for the first time). Unfortunately, the copy at Hathitrust is not very good, e. g. instead of the four sketches of the stage at the end of the book there are only two repeated twice, and some inscriptions in the sketches are illegible. I have found a much better copy at the, but it seems it can be only borrowed for some reason, although it should have been out of copyright already. Is there any way how to get the book from the --Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:40, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

I've got a scan I made many years ago on my hard drive; I'll see if I can get it up to tonight.--Prosfilaes (talk) 03:08, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
That would be absolutely perfect! Thanks a lot! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 07:52, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
That was one of my first scans, and the worse for it. It is available on, but it's not really usable directly. However, Google Books had a better copy of the same edition I scanned, so I uploaded it to File:R U R Rossum s Universal Robots.pdf. It does not have the sketches of the stage, instead having photos of the action, and I'm not sure it's the exact same play text, but there it is.
BTW, we should probably move the Paul Selver books from Commons, since he died in 1970, leaving his translations under copyright in his home nation.--Prosfilaes (talk) 09:14, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
All these linked publications are published in the USA; does that not make USA the source country for this work? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 11:19, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
True, though it was first performed in the UK. The other Paul Selver works in Commons:Category:Paul Selver were all published in the UK, though.--Prosfilaes (talk) 01:00, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks very much! I will start working on it soon :-)
As for the Commons, their rules seem too complicated to me, so I am really not sure whether the movement is necessary or not. However, the R.U.R. was published directly in the U. S., so I guess it could have been uploaded to Commons. However, I do not care very much if it is uploaded here or there. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 11:43, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Now I looked at it in more detail and found out that the editions are not the same, comparing e. g. the descriptions of scenes, which are much longer and more detailed in the version published by Samuel French than the description in the uploaded version published by Doubleday (besides the missing sketches). So it would be great if it were possible to get the Samuel French version somewhere too, I would be happy to proofread both of them. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 12:06, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
PS I've converted it to djvu so you can proofread from File:R U R Rossum s Universal Robots.djvuBeleg Tâl (talk) 00:45, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, although it seems that the djvu file has lost the OCR layer. Besides that I have to confess I prefer pdf files as they can be also easily viewed outside the proofreading extension directly in a web browser, while djvu files require to download some additional software (I have it but other people who may also want to see the file usually don't). But I thank you for trying to help! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 07:53, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
DJVU works better with the proofreading extension though, so it's good to have both! —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:26, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Duplicate pages deleted, but still showing on Index:CAB 129 post war memoranda 73-38.pdfEdit

I've deleted the duplicate pages from the above, but are still showing. I also deleted them from the Index namespace. What have I done wrong? --kathleen wright5 (talk) 02:01, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

@Kathleen.wright5: The underlying PDF at Commons contains 6 pages, which is what ProofreadPage will show in the Index: for it. You may wish to consider whether duplicated pages are a significant (i.e. worth preserving) feature of the original edition, or whether it is incidental or an error introduced during digitisation. In any case, you can just mark them as not needing proofreading in the pagelist if that is indeed the case. --Xover (talk) 06:19, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
@Kathleen.wright5: Another way to handle it is to blank out the text and mark page as "Without text". Pages with this status will not transclude. — Ineuw talk 06:47, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Formatting: braceEdit

After spending two days wrestling with the formatting of an article on cryptography, I have got it all solved, except for one point. On this page, in the paragraph below the cryptic message, one line has a brace under it, and I could not find a way to insert that. Luckily, though, it might not be necessary to include this brace at all, because it isn't part of the text proper, but rather a proof notation indicating "Obviously some error here - query what is intended" which didn't get corrected before the final printing. (This isn't the only muddled sentence in the article either; a pity there wasn't another round of proofreading before press-time.) Thoughts? Levana Taylor (talk) 22:53, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

@Levana Taylor: Absent other examples it is hard to generalise, but in this instance it appears the brace might be marking the repeated "b" (which seems an obvious error, indeed) specifically. If that is the case you might use {{SIC}} to mark that letter. If other instances truly mark a line or sentence fragment of indeterminate length I'm not sure there is any sensible way to replicate those particular markings. If the latter situation obtains it may be best to simply not try to reproduce these at all. --Xover (talk) 04:22, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
@Levana Taylor: I would suggest that we should reproduce the marking; we have a policy of reproducing typos. You can probably replicate it by experimenting with {{dual line}} and {{brace2}}. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:16, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
Aha, that {{dual line}} is what was needed. Levana Taylor (talk) 20:12, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Notes in The Natural History of SelbourneEdit

Could I have some ideas for dealing with these Notes. For example: this page. Some Letters have multiple Notes referenced, from different pages. Cheers Zoeannl (talk) 06:57, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

The answer partly depends on how the transclusion will happen. Is each letter going to be transcluded separately? Or is it going to be a single section with all the letters together? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:14, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
I don't know. There are no descriptive titles, just Letter # so I don't know if there is any advantage to transcluding separately? Hence, looking for ideas... Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 21:43, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Multiple columns across pagesEdit

I have a current project which includes a list of names several pages long. Each page is laid out in two columns and the entries are in alphabetical order (of surname) so for example one one page column 1 goes from John Freneau to John Hammel and column 2 continues from John Hibon to James Le Mome and the next page from Isaac Le Doux to Gentien Maret and Paul Maigne to John Picquet.

I started adding these using tables but then it occurred to me that once the pages are linked into a view of the full chapter the entries will be out of sequence as John Hammel from Page 1 col 1 will be followed directly by Isaac le Doux from page 2 col 1.

It looks as though the {{Div col}} template would solve the ordering problem when the pages are combined but the formatting options seem limited. The entries are quite widely spaced, are justified rather than right aligned, there is a large default line space, and the original uses a dividing rule between the columns.

I have been able to use an HTML <div style='column-count:2; column-rule: 1px solid black;'> to give me the rule but so far have not found a way to tighten up the text layout within the columns.

See the 'table' formatting here and the '{{Div col}}' version here

Any suggestions appreciated GreyHead (talk) 13:26, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Another problem I see is that some entries of the list which should be at the bottom of the left column are at the top of the right column.
I think the solution is in {{multicol}} and {{hin}}, see, e. g. Page:The Spirit of Russia by T G Masaryk, volume 1.pdf/499. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 14:27, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
The standard solution here is to not use columns at all—or rather do it all in a single column. We are aiming to make the text available, not reproduce what the publisher had to do to keep the number of pages down. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:08, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
Thank you both. I have opted for the single column solution and have also used the <poem> tags from the pages that Jan linked to so tighten up the formatting. The only niggle there is that it seems they can't be used in the page headers/footers. The section (currently unfinished) is here. GreyHead (talk) 12:41, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
@Beeswaxcandle:: As you can see in the linked page above, the multicol template is used only in the noinclude sections, so the text is divided into the columns only in the page namespace, while there is just a single column in the main namespace.
@GreyHead: Yes, the <poem> tag cannot be put into the header or footer and has to be repeated in the beginning and end of every page. Another option (though not very comfortable one for long lists) is to use <br /> at the end of each line. Do you need any help with the unfinished part? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:46, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
@Jan.Kamenicek: Thanks for the offer, I'm fine thank you, it's a lot faster now using the <poem> tags and, all being well, I will finish this section over the weekend. GreyHead (talk) 13:20, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

page numbers in main namespaceEdit

Can anyone please help/explain what is happening here. For instance With axe and rope in the New Zealand Alps/Chapter VIII. The pages up to 86 are given to the left (in different layouts), but after the first image there are no longer page numbers visible. This is also the case in other chapters. What do we do wrong? Help appreciated, --Dick Bos (talk) 11:04, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Fixed. There were two problems, see [2] and [3]. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 11:35, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
@Jan.Kamenicek: - Thanks a lot! --Dick Bos (talk) 12:12, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
@Dick Bos: You are welcome. The problem partially continues at some other subpages, e. g. at With axe and rope in the New Zealand Alps/Chapter VII, where the page no. 67 is not numbered correctly. It is due to an empty page included among the transcluded pages. The solution is to exclude the empty page, similarly as I have done at [4] . --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:07, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Is this the place for a translation?Edit

I'm looking to develop a new way of publishing translations of historical music theory sources. Could Wikipedia do this? Would another platform be better?

(1) The entire translation should be freely accessible and easily searchable online. (2) All users can comment on specific passages, identify typos, and suggest changes, and this revision history is archivable and viewable (3) A very high volume of foreign language and English text can be viewed in parallel format, with links to images of the original source (or just searchable images of original file on one side) (4) Notation examples and audio files are integrated within the parallel text. (5) Two systems of footnotes (original and editorial) are possible. (6) Integrated bibliographical citations are possible.

Wikipedia would not publish translations, but Wikisource can under certain circumstances. See Wikisource:Translations, specifically the section on "Wikisource original translations". There would need to be a scan-backed copy of the original text at the appropriate language Wikisource (e.g. the Italian Wikisource for a text written originally in Italian.) Then, a translation can be created here based on that original.
Parallel texts are generated dynamically, rather than hosted as a single work. To create a text that is simultaneously in two different languages, you would need to work at the multilingual Wikisource instead. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:37, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
Wikiversity would publish an original translation or even an original book, Derekremes. If it meets Wikisource's guideline, tho, it's probably better here; Wikiversity is for more general teaching and research resources. HLHJ (talk) 01:56, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Academic journal articlesEdit

Is there any standard way to format the metadata for academic articles? I'm thinking something like Wikiversity:Template:Article info. If not, would it be OK to just copy over that template? HLHJ (talk) 01:52, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Normally we would just put that info in Wikidata, and link to it from there. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:01, 22 May 2019 (UTC)