Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

Scriptorium Scriptorium (Help) Archives, Last archive
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Multiple works on the same topicEdit

I have recently transcribed four works about the forger, William Booth. He is not known to have ever published anything, so does not require an 'Author:' page. How can I group the works together? Would Wikisource policy support a category, or a portal page? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:02, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Wikisource:Portal guidelines suggests that a portal would be appropriate. Moreover, person-based categories are generally not used here. BethNaught (talk) 08:12, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: definitely portal, you can use either {{person}} or {{portal header}}. Categorise to category:People in portal namespace. We would also link that portal to the person item in WD. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:17, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Done. Why doesn't {{person}} automatically apply category:People in portal namespace? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:06, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Probably just hasn't had the focus as they were developed separately. {{person}} desperately needs to be converted to be Wikidata native as default. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:23, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Modern spelling edition of John Ball's "A Treatise of the Covenant of Grace"Edit

I would like to do a modern British spelling (not modernised wording) edition of the 1645 work "A Treatise of the Covenant of Grace". Examples of modern spelling would be "do" instead of "doe"; "symbolical" instead of "symbolicall"; "Sovereign" instead of "Soveraigne" but NOT "has" instead of "hath", NOT "innocence" instead of "innocency". That is, I would only re-spell if I would read the word aloud the same way whichever spelling was used. I incline to leave capitalisation, italics, etc, as is, to retain the feel of the old book without the barriers of spelling. I already prepared several chapters of modern spelling text of this book in the 1990s (nothing to do with Wikisource) so this should give me a head start, although I would carefully check such pre-made text against the original for each page of djvu.

Advice? --PeterR2 (talk) 23:08, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

  • I believe {{custom substitution}} could be used for this purpose, although the template is not currently in use. An example: to replace “Soveraigne” with “Sovereign,” you would enter {{custom substitution|Soveraigne|Sovereign|archaic-spelling}}. The third parameter (“archaic-spelling”) would be the same for all such replacements, but should be standard across all works. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:42, 18 October 2020 (UTC).
    Ugh, no, please do not use {{custom substitution}} for this purpose. It was designed essentially as a backend for templates like {{long s}}, not for extensive inline use in pages (Inductiveload will correct me if I'm wrong). It is not really suitable for entire words (vs. single character substitutions) and for either use it has some technical limitations (both variant characters are emitted into the markup stream, but one is hidden with CSS). In fact, as it currently stands I question whether it should exist at all. --Xover (talk) 05:44, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
  • @PeterR2: That is not really our gig, see WS:WWI. We reproduce works, not interpret or particularly annotate. Typically I would just find a later version of the work where there is a modernised spelling. Maybe see if English Wikibooks has an interest in what you are looking to achieve, and take it there. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:45, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Our annotations policy has traditionally been held to permit this, provided a clean original text exists first. But we do not have good technical facilities to enable it (cf. the point about the unsuitability of {{custom substitution}}) above. Since we require a clean version, and we can only have a single Index: page for a given scan, it is not currently possible for such an annotation to be scan-backed (which is sorta the raison d'être for Wikisource). It would be nice to be able to host some such annotated texts, and there are some possible ways we could enable that with software changes, but for right now you are probably going to be better off looking to WikiBooks as Billinghurst suggests. --Xover (talk) 06:04, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
  • @Billinghurst:, @Xover: Despite this being a seminal work referred to in many books, unlike many other works of Puritans there is no later printing (whether Victorian or recent) apart from print-on-demand facsimiles. As far as I know I issued the first modern facsimile (apart from a basic photocopy published without ISBN), before Google Books scanned it and took away the market for my edition by providing the basis for POD facsimiles which have not been physically tidied up as mine has. I thought I had seen something about treating a modern spelling edition as a Wikisource original translation, but I can't find this now. I'm not clear what this is: User:Sbh/Clyomon/Scene_i/Modern_Spelling --PeterR2 (talk) 08:26, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
    I am not what you are asking. I have editing here a few years now, and the statements that I gave reflect what we have been telling people for years. We are not all things, we have a scope, and we provided what we see as a reasonable alternative. We don't tread in WB's space, and they don't tread in ours. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:57, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
  • @PeterR2: Let me stand as an admin on your side. As Xover says, the annotations policy has traditionally been held to permit this. I don't see any reason to prohibit it here, especially if there was a good original transcription that would be worked from. I don't see any evidence that Wikibooks wants such works, so we wouldn't be treading on their space. Wikibooks says:
    Although we do not permit verbatim copies of pre-existing works, we do permit annotated texts, which are a kind of text that includes an original text within it and serves as a guide to reading or studying that text. Annotated editions of previously published source texts may only be written if the source text is compatible with the project's license. As a point of overlap between the two projects, Wikisource also allows the inclusion of annotated texts. If you would like to write a sparsely annotated text or a sparsely critical edition of a text, consider hosting your work more appropriately on Wikisource instead.
  • Wikibooks:Annotated texts adds
    An annotated text contains ... Various kinds of study aids for understanding or teaching the text. These annotations may include introductions, explanatory notes, summaries, translations, questions and answers, charts, lists, indices, references, wikilinks, media, etc.
  • So, yes, I believe this is good here provided we have a transcription of the original without respelling.--Prosfilaes (talk) 20:40, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
    If we had an existing version first, then we have a different answer Prosfilaes. The proposal, as I see it, was to just produce a version with modified spelling without producing a clean version, and without reference to scans. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:24, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
    Certainly my idea was to use a DJVU from Archive.org - In my original enquiry above, I said "I would carefully check such pre-made text against the original for each page of djvu" - in other words "scans". And I can understand if a "clean" version is necessary first, and also that a modern spelling edition may be regarded as a Wikisource original translation. In any case it was just an enquiry, and the idea of having to do the clean version first may make me carry on with the other projects I have been working on, rather than starting something new. I haven't decided yet. --PeterR2 (talk) 08:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
    OK @Prosfilaes: I'm uploading A Treatise of the Covenant of Grace using IAUpload for the purpose of creating a clean version. It says The author 'John Ball' doesn’t have a creator template. So I've set up a Creator:John_Ball_(1585-1640) at Wikimedia Commons with data from Wikidata. Do I change the "Author" in the "Commons Description" from "John Ball" to "John Ball (1585-1640)", or what? --PeterR2 (talk) 23:30, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

How to make tables align to the right?Edit

Also refer to Index:Prevention of Child Pornography Ordinance (Cap. 579).pdf, page 17 (A1415) of the document. So how can I make a border-less table align to the right when transcribing the file? Many thanks.廣九直通車 (talk) 01:23, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

@廣九直通車: Template:Table style is our uniform formatting space, and see Help:Tables. When you say align table, do you actually mean the table, or the column? For a column that needs to be right-aligned, we would need to mark the respective cells in that column with {{ts|ar}}. Plenty of examples around. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:39, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Follow up. Typically we would not right align the table itself, and we would center it with something like {{ts|mc}}. It is one of those bits of formatting that just usually make sense when reproducing. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:38, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Indeed. Nothing on that page is actually right-aligned. If you look carefully at the text you'll find all similar pieces of text are aligned along their left edges, and variable amounts of left margins, with some blocks additionally having a hanging indent. What looks like right alignment is actually just justified text that wraps at the right margin. --Xover (talk) 05:33, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, but how can I achieve such effect? I mean, the way they inserting the schedule is similar to using ":" to make texts move to the right (not sure about the exact phrase), but how can I make a table achieve this? Many thanks.廣九直通車 (talk) 12:19, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
@廣九直通車: Hanging indent => {{ts|it}} is a set version — billinghurst sDrewth 14:17, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
@廣九直通車: If you want to shift table position from the center of a page, then use the codes {{ts|fll}} or {{ts|flr}}, meaning float table to the left or to the right.— Ineuw (talk) 17:12, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Help with Translation...Edit

Hi, I am working on the "Novalis" page for Wikipedia, and after a thorough search, I've found that there is no free translation available for a work by Novalis, called Glauben und Liebe oder Der König und die Königin (Faith and Love or the King and the Queen). I feel this is a gap in the Novalis project.

I figured I have sufficient knowledge in German, knowledge of available translations, and access to machine translation (along with fluid use of translation tools) to create a functional copy for public access.

I looked at the de.wikisource.org page on Novalis and see that the essay is linked externally to etext.zeno. Using external links seems to violate translation guidelines, does it?

I have found the original Germanpages I need in archive.org, but the rules for translation seem more complex, involving things like interwiki links to pre-existing pages and the like.

Could you possibly give me some guidelines so I can create a translation for the page. Thank you for your help!Wtfiv (talk) 21:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

@Wtfiv: I have uploaded all four volumes of the Novalis Schriften to Commons. Since they were published in 1907 and the editor died in 1912, they're PD in US and in the origin country of Germany. I have created the index pages (transcription volumes: 1, 2, 3, 4) too. The section in question is Volume 2, p146.
You can translate the work in the Page: namespace here at English Wikisource, so the image shows German and the text you enter is in English. This makes it easier for an interested party to "validate" your translation against the original. It is transcluded as usual, but to the Translation: namespace.
Remember that you may not incorporate any still-copyrighted translated material into your own translation, even if it's a paraphrase! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 23:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
@Inductiveload:. Thank you very much! This makes the work much easier! And yes, I don't plan to use the copyrighted translations, except as something to interrogate, as I go along. (No intention to paraphrase, but thanks for the reminder!) Fortunately, the edit history will be preserved which will provide documentation of the translation process along the way. I very much appreciate your help, and your very quick response! No, I'll have to tackle wrapping my head around just getting started on my first Wikisource project.Wtfiv (talk) 23:25, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
@Wtfiv: great! Just take it easy and let me know if you run into any obstacles.
One thing when translating against page scans is that sometimes you can't have the same pagebreaks, especially when a language like German very long sentences has and the verb right at the end geputt ist. So don't worry too much if you have to "hoist" the entire English sentence onto the prior page or something.
I started you off with a single roughly translated sentence at Page:Novalis Schriften - Volume 2.djvu/156 so you can see what I mean. Of course you can remove it and replace with a better rendering!
I'm off for the moment, but leave me messages and I'll have a look tomorrow. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 00:05, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: Thank you again! I think I'm going to be able to start the process. It may take me a bit of time to get going, but your help has made this seem...at this point at least...easy enough. Thanks also for posting all the getting started materials on my talk page. It's good to know that if I need help, you are out there!Wtfiv (talk) 01:50, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Import to-be-deleted file from CommonsEdit

Could the file File:Lustra (private print) - Ezra Pound - Frontispiece.jpg please be imported from Commons before it gets deleted? It turns out it has UK copyright (photograph d. 1966), but it's used in a 1916 work here (Lustra). Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 10:24, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

  Done and that is 20x harder than it needs to be. I will see if I can get imagetransfer.py to be updated for some sort of force or overwrite, rather than tell me NO as it is at Commons. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:34, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 11:37, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Index:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large,_1763.djvuEdit

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large,_1763.djvu

For some reason this was raw OCR dumped at some point, In places the OCR is very poor, and the scans not necessarily as readable as would be desirable, when compared against the source material at IA.


I am wondering if there is a way to remove all the 'dumped' OCR, so that someone with the time can do it PROPERLY.
ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:56, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: The contributor in question alleges that this is not raw OCR (if I understand correctly, they consider it to be "partially proofread" and appear to take offence at it being characterised as "raw OCR"), and is vehemently opposed to deleting such pages. That means the only avenue to removing it is a community discussion at WS:PD. --Xover (talk) 16:59, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Well if it's considered 'partially' proofread, then I'll withdraw the discussion. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:17, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
resolved ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:36, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
  • I believe you are mistaken, Xover: the text referenced was that here, for example; the actual creation of pages is not by any stretch of the imagination even ‘partially’ proofread, it is (for the most part, some works may have been more proofread) entirely the OCR output, with no valuable change. This has been done to many works, and (for me, at least) discourages me from working on the work in question. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 20:28, 14 November 2020 (UTC).
    Note that I did not say that I agreed with the assertion. I merely advised that there is currently no policy or clear community consensus that would allow any admin to delete such pages, and as such the only avenue for deleting them is proposing that at WS:PD. --Xover (talk) 21:12, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Anchors for Sidenotes...Edit

@Xover:,@Billinghurst:,@Inductiveload:

Affected templates: {{left sidenote}} {{right sidenote}} {{LR sidenote}} {{RL sidenote}}

Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 2.djvu/52 has sidenotes, and these can be associated with a particular section of the text. whilst I could add {{anchor}}, it would be sensible if these could be added from the sidenotes templates directly, so as to limit the amount of Templates needed in a long work.

The fix would be to do something like:

  <span {{if:{{{@|{{{anchor}}}|}}|{{{@|{{{anchor}}}|}} ....

in the relevant templates, so that the x.y style numbering suggested previously could be included directly, for this and other works using this template family. unsigned comment by ShakespeareFan00 (talk) .

Template for algin vertical & flip imageEdit

Is there any template to vertically align text and image to page centre? Also, looking for a template to flip an image. 991joseph (talk) 15:04, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

As far as I know there is no template to align text vertically. Pages in the main namespace do not have fixed height, so such a template would not make much sense in most cases. What do you need it for?
I am not sure what you mean by flipping an image. If you mean mirror images, we do not have such a template. There is only a template {{FreedImg}} which enables to rotate images, see Adding classes to the image. However, we usually do not rotate images, unless there is a real reason to do so. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:21, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Depending on what is wanted to be achieved for aligning vertically, there is {{block center}} with a width parameter; {{vertical text}}; or {{vrl}}. If we had some idea of which page you wanted to do this on, we'd be better able to advise. In respect to rotating images, if the image has been imported with wrong orientation, then the best solution is to rotate it off-wiki in image manipulation software and re-upload. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:30, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
@Jan.Kamenicek, @Beeswaxcandle: Thanks for your input. Sorry for the late reply. I didn't get any notification when you replied, although this was page was in my watchlist. I mostly contribute to Malayalam Wikisource. I came across a page (it's the cover page) of a book where the title and illustration are vertically aligned to the centre of the page. So, wanted to know whether there is any template in English Wikisource to achieve this. Also, came across a page of the same book where an illustration is also appearing flipped vertically in the source. I later achieved this by using the {{Rotate}}.--Joseph 💬 07:10, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
OK, gotcha. We don't normally bother about centering vertically on a page because that's an artefact of the printing process, whereby the text is made to look pretty on a printed page. Instead we're putting the content of the printed pages on to web-pages. That said, there is {{dhr}}, which can be used to insert some space before and after some text.

In respect of the lamp illustration, this is a watermark that the scanner has picked up and reproduced. Because of the way that large sheets of paper are printed on and then folded before forming a book, the watermark will be found in various orientations. It's certainly not something that needs to be reproduced in the Wikisource version. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:34, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

It's not the lamp watermark I tried to reproduce, it's the decorated lines that are seen above and below the text. Anyhow thanks for the help.--Joseph 💬 13:55, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

A problem with Template:CoR65 para/sEdit

If you go to Page:Constitution of Rhodesia, 1965.pdf/28, you will see that this page has (i), and because it’s not the same level as (1), (2) I tried to type CoR65 para/s|4|(i), but I didn’t work. I think this houle be added because if I do para/s|3|(i), it will be shown on the same level as (1), and it isn’t that way in the real document. -ElfSnail123 (talk) 13:29, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

@Inductiveload:, I see that you have created the template. Can you please help? Thanks in advance, -ElfSnail123 (talk) 20:23, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
@ElfSnail123: I have adjusted the CSS, please take a look and see if {{CoR65 para/s|4|(i)}} works for you now. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 21:36, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you very much! It works! -ElfSnail123 (talk) 09:46, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Naming conventions for certain U. N. worksEdit

I was thinking specifically about (United Nations) Security Council works. Resolutions are listed at “United Nations Security Council Resolution x,” which is possible because the numbers are sequential over the years, and are not repeated. I was thinking of adding some works like “Small arms and light weapons” (S/2015/289), a “Report of the Secretary-General.” How should this be listed? The final number (289) is not unique, so some reference to the title will be necessary; perhaps “Small arms and light weapons (No. 289 of 2015)?” Also, is this work in the public domain? I think it should be, but I’m not sure, so confirmation would be much appreciated. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 19:42, 16 November 2020 (UTC).

Section names being converted into textEdit

I have noticed some edits similar to this one recently; when editing the page, the ##section## text which should be represented as <section begin="section" /> displays as

    1. section##

Does anyone know why this happens, or how to stop it from happening? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 00:11, 17 November 2020 (UTC).

It's a problem with the Easy LST gadget. When a page with sections set up using it is edited by an editor who has it switched off, the double-hash code will sometimes change into an ordered list—which is what a # command beginning a line is usually interpreted to mean. IMO Easy LST was one of the sillier additions here and has caused far more problems than it is worth. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:51, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
@Beeswaxcandle: If it is problematic, then we remove it, and if anyone is truly attached to it, then users can implement it through turning it on in their common.css. The conversion happens at the time of editing, so turning it off should not impact any pages without consequences to the existing pages and future pages. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:23, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
I am for once going to disagree with you both on this one. I think EasyLST is brilliant, making this otherwise obscure syntax approachable and understandable to users, and I can recall only a single instance where it has caused problems. Considering the Gadget has sat more or less untouched for 5+ years while MediaWiki changes have been rolling on, I am downright amazed at its robustness.
Don't get me wrong, I do see your point; but for me, so far, the pros far outweigh the cons. --Xover (talk) 06:22, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
I have to agree with Xover: East LST is really helpful, especially as section tags are more complex than they seem. For example, you are technically able to omit start or end tags, and you can interleave sections. Both of these abilities have theoretical uses, but generally end up going wrong at transclusion time in confusing ways. The #### format is more restricted (consecutive sections that end before the next one starts) and IMO is way clearer for non-power users.
The other thing about Easy LST's technique is that if it does go wrong, the markup renders badly, but the #### wikicode is still there, so it can be re-edited and saved (with Easy LST hopefully getting it right) without complex intervention. For example, simply editing TE(æ)A,ea.'s example with Easy LST on and saving inserts the sections correctly.
How often does Easy LST drop that ball? I don't think I've ever seen it, except when it chokes on some manually-entered section syntax (e.g. when a start tag is missing).
@TE(æ)A,ea.: how many other edits have you seen: it's possible there's some quirk of the exact pages which is triggering some defect in Easy LST? Has anyone ever seen this happen to themselves? Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 08:38, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
  • I remember seeing it only one or two other times, and they were not by this user nor related to this specific work. I do not remember where they occurred, however. Edit: I have tested it here; you seem to be right, the tool picks up on the initial “##” as the first item of a numbered list. All that is required to correct it is for a user to edit the page without using the tool. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 22:34, 17 November 2020 (UTC).
@TE(æ)A,ea.: it works for me. I have the gadget on. I edit that page, it shows ##s in the wikicode and when I preview, it turns them to section tags. How are you getting it to save with the ##s? Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 23:17, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
  • I selected the pen icon, visible in this image (to the left of the OCR buttons). Upon selecting this, and only upon selecting this, have I been able to load the page as using a numbered list. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 02:19, 18 November 2020 (UTC).
@TE(æ)A,ea.: a-ha! So the syntax highlighting is what breaks it. This isn't that surprising since the editor becomes a vety complex mini-web-app when in syntax mode. I'll have a look, if this gadget breaks, quite a few other scripts may break too. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 08:18, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
@TE(æ)A,ea.: I have modified the gadget so that it works for the syntax highlighing edit box. Could you give it a go and see if it also works for you?
For the record, the issue was that editbox.value = text; doesn't work on the syntax highlighted editor, but $(editbox).val(text); does. I've also applied some other tidy-ups and added Help:Gadget-Easy LST documentation for it. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 10:37, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Yes, the tool no longer causes the page to load incorrectly. The code is still highlighted as if it were a numbered list. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:53, 18 November 2020 (UTC).
Good to hear. I'm not sure supporting the ##-syntax in the syntax highlighter is possible without server-side support from the CodeMirror extension. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 15:05, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Sandbox1Edit

Okay why does this not work? I was using {{Authority reference}}, BUT NOTHING defined in the respect of the content concerned, displays. Have I failed to find yet another typo, because it's getting tiresome trying to find a workable solution for the cross-references in the margin for the source work used. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:23, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

{{authority reference}} was broken by this edit. It should be fixed now. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 12:01, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
That sovles that issue, I am now seeing an error about a template loop. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:02, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

User:ShakespeareFan00/common.jsEdit

How do I get the dynamic layout to ACTUALLY appear? As opposed to just being present in my common.js? Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:29, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Looks like a JS load order issue. Adding the following before it
if (self.ws_layouts === undefined) {
  self.ws_layouts = {};
}
works for me. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 09:12, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

File:ManInBrownSuit-Christie.pdfEdit

This is not an original file; it is merely generated from the Project Gutenberg text. A suitable alternative may be found here, if someone wants to replace, (and, preferably, proofread,) the file (work). TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 03:27, 18 November 2020 (UTC).

  Done @TE(æ)A,ea.: file replaced and index updated. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 09:06, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

index page layout roman numeralsEdit

This index page has roman numerals starting Djvu #12 as roman numeral vi and ending with djvu #41 and roman numeral xxxv. Can someone show me if and how it's possible start with vi and auto increment? — Ineuw (talk) 20:02, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

The secret ingredient is 12to41=roman 12=6. You can also use highroman for I, II, III, IV, etc. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 20:09, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. I had very little need of roman until now.— Ineuw (talk) 20:38, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Content review : Template:Dropinitial/testcasesEdit

First testcase example, the repair is minimal but it solves a long standing rendering anomaly with the fl parameter.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:59, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Okay this change should have worked without issue. - But when I change the main-template the documentation breaks, so what should be a a SIMPLE re-ordering of where certain content is generated, turns into yet another hunt the BUG (not of my making) BECAUSE of some obscure interaction that can't be pinned down definitively. Sigh .

I have checked the examples given using Special:ExpandTemplates and they expand without causing any problems in respect of both the main template and the Sandbox version. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:07, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

It's seems I can't read.. In the mainspace edits, I'd made a copy paste error, and UTTERLY failed to notice it . I'm sorry to ask, but I think I am going to need a script that I can use to stop me editing templates. Or this template which is highly visible needs more protection.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:26, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
Per your request, I have restricted your access to Template: ns for a month. If there are clear errors or clear problemst then please use {{edit protected}} on the corresponding talk page. 06:22, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:36, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Request for watermark removal on Google Books's version of Waylaid by Wireless, and upload to CommonsEdit

https://books.google.com/books?id=Y2siAAAAMAAJ I know there is an upload of this book to archive.org, but it is a poorer quality version because the title page on that scan is degraded. PseudoSkull (talk) 06:08, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

@Ineuw: as an example of someone I saw in the archives of this page having helped with this type of thing. PseudoSkull (talk) 06:11, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
@PseudoSkull: is the PDF available for download by you from Google Books? It's not showing for me, but might be a geolocation thing. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 06:21, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: Try this link: https://books.googleusercontent.com/books/content?req=AKW5QafcX_f50Lm46d7o1CALfRdkKqnkZ67WxUfW3z-KIGFArIf_orw7yze4QYtVHtR-0w4qUDADojPRDxVe-DicsQYTpQXtMzFV1uJVIhrcJ60F2qABmTdbZlTzOo-Ml3XWiXKJzKCU4iOayLLEtxgXCzLxO7Z-WfvIj5IlVN5DuO1IDytvfZTp1R_PZF-k2WPi4ltnwZGj8NOvAWbWfQv89vuoPVV-ZqDDQRB0YagAdGWJZO8Tyy7iRjCVQ_mjXrJ79-icBsin PseudoSkull (talk) 06:23, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Whole scan looks to be of suspect quality. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:25, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Yep. Standard Google scan. The Hathi version is much better: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nyp.33433074801253. It's actually the exact same book (NYPL, same stamp position), so I guess Google just smashes the files with a super-intense MRC compressor for public access and Hathi somehow gets better images. I'm converting it now. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 06:34, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
And here we go: Index:Waylaid by Wireless - Balmer - 1909.djvu. Enjoy. Original images can be obtained from Hathi directly (please don't extract from the DjVu). See H:EXTRACT or I can do it for you. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 07:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: Thank you for taking the time to do this, but is it possible for you to make a clipped version without the Google and NYPL watermarks? Thanks. PseudoSkull (talk) 07:23, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
It's technically possible, but it's not really necessary as that text is insufficient to attract copyright (thanks, Google for using a wordmark!). The Google cover pages are a bit more suspect, but no one really seems to care at Commons any more. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 07:26, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
  Done , since it's not too difficult in this case. But some books have the watermarks too close to text to do it easily. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 07:55, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, didn't see the message in time, but keep me on your list. — Ineuw (talk) 19:58, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

File import from CommonsEdit

Hi, could File:Letters of Aurungzebe - tr. Bilimoriya - 1908.djvu please be imported from Commons? It's a 1908 work and I can't find an author death date, so it fails Template:PD-old-assumed by 8 years. On the other hand, the title page also says it was registered in 1867, so I'm not sure where it stands. Thanks, Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 18:01, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

@Inductiveload: I didn't understand. Do you want to import it to Wikisource or link it from the commons?— Ineuw (talk) 01:24, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
I had thought it would need to come here, because it was published in 1908 and therefore is less than 120 years old. But the original may actually be 1867 and therefore A-OK at Commons. So now I'm not sure. Or maybe someone can work out when the author died? Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:28, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
1867 just seems to refer to the year of the copyright act. India is life+60, so PD assumed should be 110 years; I'm not sure I'd stress about moving it until someone wants to argue the matter.--Prosfilaes (talk) 01:31, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
I have found two bits of information about the translator: He passed I.A. in 1902 from Wilson College, Bombay (1) and passed B.A. in Persian from the same college, under Bombay University, in 1905 (2). Accordingly, his birth year was 1902 - 18 = 1884. Hrishikes (talk) 06:46, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

SP template.Edit

Hi,

Does someone have the ability to generate a list of all invocations of this template that have a second or third argument supplied?

I was wanting to check for a subtle and not obvious mistake in assuming the second argument to this template is the end (unspaced of a word or phrase) when that should be the third arugment supported by {{lp}} instead.

Thanks.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:28, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

@Xover:, @Inductiveload:? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:39, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm looking for calls like {{sp|WOR|D.}} Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:50, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Should be possible.
The real question that'll bake your noodle is how many calls to either {{sp}} or {{lsp}} without the 3rd parameter are actually correct in the first place. The CSS letter spacing juts out at the end, so it's very common that even if there isn't un-spaced punctuation at the end ({{lsp|1em|SPACE|D.}}SPACED.), it should be {{lsp|1em|SPACE|D}}SPACED, not {{lsp|1em|SPACED}}SPACED. It rarely makes much of a difference, but it can skew things like centering:

SPACED
SPACED

Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:25, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
  • A system for this does already exist (here), but it doesn’t work on English Wikisource. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 17:49, 25 November 2020 (UTC).

A bulk moveEdit

The Sketchbook of Geoffrey Crayon to The Sketchbook of Geoffrey Crayon (1819) as there are several different versions. --RaboKarbakian (talk) 17:47, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

@RaboKarbakian:   Done , but please check for link breakage, since many links are not relative. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 22:42, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Image transclusionEdit

Is there a policy for where images should be placed in relation to the text they're around? I see in Waylaid by Wireless the page before the image appears ends with a hyphenated word, and on the page after the image the hyphenated word ends. So how would we transclude the image and the text together? PseudoSkull (talk) 22:32, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

I suggest using {{hws}} and {{hwe}}. Then the word will stay divided in the page namespace, but it will be connected into one in the main namespace. The picture can be displayed using {{img float}}, then the image will float in the text and the text will not end in the middle of a line before the image. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:41, 25 November 2020 (UTC)