Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

Scriptorium Scriptorium (Help) Archives, Last archive
The Scriptorium is Wikisource's community discussion page. This subpage is especially designated for requests for help from more experienced Wikisourcers. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or a new one. Project members can often be found in the #wikisource IRC channel (a web client is available).

This page is automatically archived by Wikisource-bot

Have you seen our help pages and FAQs?


Interwiki to Translation namespace not appearingEdit

According to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2898441, the page Translation:Tikunei_Zohar is linked to its source language he:s: page https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%AA%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%99_%D7%94%D7%96%D7%95%D7%94%D7%A8 However, althought the link appears in the he: page, it does not appear on the en: page. unsigned comment by Nissimnanach (talk) 16:18, 12 February 2021.

Using modern editions of medieval textsEdit

Can I use modern editions of medieval texts (Old English period 650-1100 AD so very much within the public domain!) without infringing copyright. Obviously the editors of these texts have done painstaking work to digitise the Manuscripts so I don't know whether the modern versions are now their copyright?

Also the Old English section of this wiki is really quite inconsistent. If anyone could point me to a WikiProject page or any key editors of the OE section that would be appreciated.

There is an entire corpus of Open Source Anglo-Saxon poetry out there (https://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/ascp/) which can be copied onto Wikisource and I have access to a number of modern editions of OE prose texts which may or may not be public domain worthy.

Edit / P.S. different editors have different opinions on how to read certain parts of certain manuscripts so to make Wikisource a sort of palimpsest for the various readings would be useful.

Rho9998 (talk) 12:55, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

@Rho9998: I think sacred-texts.com have just copied from others, so they're not a great source. For example, it looks like the Exeter Book was cribbed from a 1995 online version which we have some of: The Exeter Book (Jebson). In this case, all the modern content is almost certainly copyright.
In general, it's preferred if the texts have a verifiable source, which is often a scan of a book. For example https://archive.org/details/exeterbookanthol01goll.
I don't really think there is such a WikiProject (or if there is, it's kept very quiet!). A major problem with OE/Saxon works is they are very often parallel texts and we have, up to now, never come up with a really satisfactory way to handle such texts on the web (it's easier in books where the recto/verso page layout is obvious).
In general, digitisation doesn't create a new copyright (this is called w:Sweat of the brow doctrine, which generally doesn't hold water in the US) Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 13:30, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

@Inductiveload: Thank you for your answer. That answers a few questions and inspires a few. Firstly does that mean that the modern English parts of Wikisource's copy of Jebson's edition of the Exeter Book breach copyright? Secondly, isn't it fine to create a Wikibook for each Old English text (e.g. the Beowulf MS is digitised and available online (verifiable source =British Library Digitised Manuscripts)), rather than for a book for each modern edition? And if that's okay would the contributor(s) have to make decisions about how to read the MS' handwriting etc. themselves or could they copy an edition's readings, then citing the editor somewhere? Feel free to reply on my talk page if it would clog up this page. Rho9998 (talk) 14:18, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

@Rho9998: For the first part, yes, any modern English parts with some level of creative input are indeed copyright. I'm not sure how much modern English there actually is in the original. The titles probably don't qualify for copyright on their own if that's what you are wondering.
As long as the text is in scope for Wikisource you can add it. Functionally, that means one of:
  • From before 1926
  • From 1926 to now, and actually published (mostly to avoid copy-pasting of blogs and things) and either public domain or freely licensed.
    • Some non-published works are OK if they're some kind of "historically interesting", and there's quite some leeway for that, especially if the contributed text is of decent quality rather than a drive-by copydump.
  • Your own translation of one of these
So, you certainly can create a Wikisource "version", as we'd term it, for each MS.
I'm not really sure about the MS handwriting thing. If the reading is unambiguous, then I suppose there is no creative input in it and it doesn't get its own copyright. But, yes, it would still be a good idea to say where you got the reading from to help others in future. If there is creative input, it probably gets a copyright of its own (and then a grey area in the middle where you can argue over the level of input). This is probably worth asking at WS:CV with a specific example of an MS and a modern text. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 14:51, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
Note that transcribing Beowulf from the manuscript is not going to get you the full text; it got burned in a fire and has been flaking a bit since then, so the best editions are based on the first transcription, modified by the known problems of that transcription. I'd think there's better editions pre-1926 of almost everything in Old English.--Prosfilaes (talk) 22:30, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Dotted line listsEdit

Hi there,

Wanting some guidance on how best to present the list given in Some Account of New Zealand/Chapter 11, I've kinda used the {{dotted TOC page listing}} template to make it work, however this looks weird with some lines that get split into multiple lines if there's a dash.

Is there a better template or way to present lists in this format? Any help would be appreciated. Supertrinko (talk) 09:33, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

If you wrap the contents of each line with {{nobr}} then it won’t break (and you won’t have to replace all the spaces with  ). — Dcsohl (talk) 15:17, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Perfect, I see it's been redirected to {{nowrap}}, which does the same job, I've used that. Supertrinko (talk) 23:42, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
@Supertrinko: [Aside from the fact I am not a fan of the dot leaders.] I would be more inclined to wrap it in a centred block and set a max-width (set in em). No one really wants to read a two column spanning table at 100% width on a computer. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:18, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Help to publish a book from Internet archive to Wikisource.Edit

Can we publish the given book from internet archive to Wikisource. Book link 👇 https://archive.org/details/wonderthatwasind00alba/mode/2upTewariKamal (talk) 12:41, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

@TewariKamal: Probably not, that work appears to be in copyright in the US (published 1968, ©1967 with a copyright notice -- 1964 through 1977). I am surprised that IA has it uploaded, not certain how they are getting away with it, not certain what release or loophole they have found. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:57, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
I see a 1963 edition published in India (Arthur Llewellyn Basham, 1914-1986, UK historian) and complying with copyright, so that would make it 2068 in US or (based on w:Copyright law of India) it may be 60+PMT which is still 2047 outside of US, so still no, and I still don't see how IA is hosting that work either. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:06, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
The copyright is probably not being enforced (though that is no excuse for anyone to be hosting it, including us). PseudoSkull (talk) 05:39, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

The subtitle at Page:Sheila and Others (1920).djvu/104Edit

Talking about the part that says "Abel X*his mark* Goodfriend". How do I deal with this type of subtitle/note at Wikisource, where there is xx-smaller text above and below the letter? Do I treat it as a regular footnote (with the <ref> tag)? Or do I do something else with it?

One thought I'll volunteer is that upon selecting that text, I would like at least for "X" to take precedent over the word "his". So when you select the text, I hope it doesn't say "his X mark", but rather "X his mark".

Also I've never seen any kind of subtitle in a book like this in my life, what is it even called? Is it some kind of Canadian typographical thing? (The author is Canadian) PseudoSkull (talk) 23:03, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

@PseudoSkull: One way is to allow flexbox to the rescue:

Example

Abel <span style="display:inline-flex; flex-direction:column; align-items: center; vertical-align: middle; line-height:1.1;">
<span style="order:2;">X</span>
<span style="font-size:80%; order:1;">his</span>
<span style="font-size:80%; order:3;">mark</span>
</span> Goodfriend

Abel X his mark Goodfriend

Copy pastes as "X his mark" (and will probably render as such on export, since not many e-readers handle flexbox). Vertical alignment is a hair off where you might want it, but all in all not bad, I think. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 23:56, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
@PseudoSkull: I would have put it in a tooltip or footnote, instead of trying to reproduce a typographic effect that was awkward even on paper, in this specific case. Xover (talk) 05:09, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Download pdf on Erotica book isn't downloading all book pagesEdit

Hi everyone! I hope you're having a nice day. If anyone has an interest in this beautiful book - the Erotica book "download" button (to download a pdf) doesn't download all the pages, but only 11 pages, not any content pages. Have a nice day. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 13:33, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

@The Eloquent Peasant: the use of {{AuxTOC}} overrides the main TOC. One solution is to wrap the main TOC in {{export TOC}}. There's a bit more detail (that I just added this case to) at Help:Preparing_for_export#Listing_pages_for_export. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 13:47, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: You fixed it! Thank you! I love that book! --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 14:00, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

delete Index:Aladdin-1890s.djvuEdit

Please delete Index:Aladdin-1890s.djvu and all of the pages. I found a much better scan, see Index:Aladdin and the Wonderful Lamp-1875.pdf. Thank you!--RaboKarbakian (talk) 19:44, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

A problem with tableEdit

Please help with «235|-» (The Works of Thomas Carlyle/Volume 2, table of contents). Ratte (talk) 16:31, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

@Ratte: You needed a {{nopt}} at the top to ensure the markup for the second page really starts on a new line. Help:Page_breaks#Tables_across_page_breaks has a bit more background. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 16:37, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Thank you! Ratte (talk) 16:45, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Parser functions...Edit

Template:LR sidenote/sandbox & Template:LR sidenote/sandbox/dummy

The test cases are here:-

Template:LR sidenote/testcases

Having had to abandon an entire morning's effort because of the issue shown in the above I'm not best pleased.

Can someone PLEASE explain slowly, why in the testcases the Expected and Actual results do not match, when all that's being dealt with in the relevant template parameters is simple text or numerical values?

The sandbox is a very simplified version of some template logic I was attempting to use elsewhere to make some other templates considerably more powerful, and I very nearly had the approach working. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:43, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

issue is suspected to be parser function related and so I've reverted the sandbox to be a mirror of the main template.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:46, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Logic simplification?Edit

As part of attempts to resolve an issue elsewhere, I wrote: Template:Right sidenote/sandbox/CSSline with a view to providing a standardised way of generating a CSS attribute, if and only if a non-standard value was used.

I provide a partial-specification and test-cases here: - Template:Right sidenote/sandbox/CSSline

I then used it to re-implement portions of {{Right sidenote}} in a sandbox with the goal of moving the default behaviour to a CSS class, only generating inline styles, when a non-standard value was provided, and having a situation where a template calling {{right sidenote}} did not need to know the default value for the attributes.

The relevant implementations where CSSline is called from being:- {{Right sidenote/sandbox}}, {{LR sidenote/sandbox}}, {{RL sidenote/sandbox}}.

I have concerns that the implementation here is overly complex (it uses 3 parser functions) and would appreciate another contributor using the testcases and partial-specification provided, advising on how these could be eliminated whilst retaining the robust handling this template was intended to provide. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 05:34, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

All caps plus different sizeEdit

Hello, I'm on this page. And, I am not sure how to do the "Synopsis of Events between the Battle..." line. Kindly suggest. Lightbluerain (Talk | contribs) 03:37, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@Lightbluerain: The text in question is set in a small-caps typeface, and it looks like it's centered too. For this we have the {{c}} and {{sc}} templates. The construct above it is a "horizontal rule", for which we use the {{rule}} template. Xover (talk) 04:02, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
@Xover:, Thanks a lot. Lightbluerain (Talk | contribs) 15:44, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Some problems about transcribingEdit

I'm trying to work on Dictionary of the Foochow Dialect, but I am not sure about the format. Take the page Page:Dictionary of the Foochow Dialect.pdf/1902 as example, is that acceptable? How should I improve the format? --TongcyDai (talk) 12:50, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@TongcyDai: I have made you {{DFD index}}, which should help.
I suggest to put each "section" as a new list, otherwise the columns will be extremely long and a reader will have to scroll up and down the entire index at each column break. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 14:28, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Thank you very much!!--TongcyDai (talk) 14:40, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: For Page:Dictionary_of_the_Foochow_Dialect.pdf/1901, the top part is divided into 9 parts, but we don't have Template:Rh/9, how should we deal with that? --TongcyDai (talk) 14:42, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
@TongcyDai: We have it now! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 14:49, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: Really appreciate it! And I just found that the first character of the radical is slightly more to the left than other characters (please see Page:Dictionary of the Foochow Dialect.pdf/1901). Is the template able to show the difference? --TongcyDai (talk) 14:54, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
@TongcyDai: Yep, set n=0 and if should work now. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 15:05, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: Thank you!!! Can you please help make a template for the main part of the dictionary, like, Page:Dictionary of the Foochow Dialect.pdf/177? --TongcyDai (talk) 15:10, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
@TongcyDai: I see you found it, but for the record: {{DFD entry}} (I used 一二 for the doc's chars, feel free to fix!. Fundamentally it is a table, as being too smart with CSS will kill the export possibilities. I suggest a new table for each "pronunciation" (i.e. end the tables where the gaps are). Then, when you transclude, transclude each table to its own page, which will make navigation easier for readers. With >1000 pages, even one page per letter gets very, very long. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 15:59, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: Thank you soooo much!! I've just finished transcluding Page:Dictionary of the Foochow Dialect.pdf/29, hopefully I'm doing right! --TongcyDai (talk) 17:54, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Edits not patrolled yetEdit

Hello, When I check my watchlist here, I see a red exclamatory sign before my edits. The watchlist says that that means that my edits are not patrolled yet. I don't see such things on Wikipedia. Does it mean that every editor here has to be in the Auto-patrolled user group? Or, that's only because I am new here and that red exclamatory sign would go after a particular number of edits made? Lightbluerain (Talk | contribs) 03:21, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

(See WS:APD) Autopatrolled status is done differently here at enWS than at other places. It is given when a user demonstrates that they have a good knowledge/understanding of our policies and style guide. There is no minimum number of edits. We also allow any user to patrol an edit, rather than restricting such to a special group of patrollers. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:52, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
Is patrolling actually paid attention to? If I filter recent changes to unpatrolled changes only, then I see there have been 50 unpatrolled changes made in the last 2 hours... and if I switch it to manually-patrolled changes only, then I can see that only 50 changes in the last week have been patrolled. It doesn’t seem like being unpatrolled means much. — Dcsohl (talk) 21:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Chronological Table and Index of the Statutes/Chronological TableEdit

Index:Chronological Table and Index of the Statutes.djvu contains a lengthy table representing various statutes, the years they were passed and any noted repeals up to the date it was published.

It would not be wise to transclude this as a very large single table, so it was split by Monarch, and for later portions by Regnal Year. See Chronological Table and Index of the Statutes/Chronological Table

Each of the table "Page: s" have a header, this remains the same across the whole table.

The combined table for each Monarch/Regnal year, should have the same header as the individual Page:s.

The current transclusion of the combined tables uses {{Page}} a template (which is deprecated with good reason) and the transclusion fails to fully respect dynamic layouts or Indexstyles, as the transclusion is direct. This is undesirable.

Ideally what I would like to do is to continue to using the existing "sections" via a <pages> tag instead.

What would be a "recommended" way of placing the header for each combined table, because placing a <pages> inside table syntax to achieve this is not advised? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:57, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Request for a script... Section tag Linter...Edit

Wikisource uses labelled "sections" to aid transclusion of a portion or portions of a page.

Would it be possible to have some kind of script/linter that checks if those tags are matched up or if duplicated naming exists within a page? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:48, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Your request doesn't make sense. Sections are free labelled, so how would you make any comparison? Plus you can have multiple sections of the same name—they are independent. There is no logic to follow. Even if we did follow some logic, there is no guarantee that will even be text in the section. This where the user needs to have vigilance and check their work as they go. We do run checks on overall components of works (link on each Index: page) to see if pages are missing.

It also why I don't do s1, s2, s3, ... labelling and I match the labelling to the subpagename, it becomes very obvious immediately if things are not correct. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:15, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

If sections are generally free labelled, then I will clarify what I am looking for as "correct" with respect to the use case I had in mind, is a pair:-
<section begin\=\"([^"]+)\" \/>
<section end\=\"([^"]+)\" \/>

where $1 and $2, the inner groups matched for the section name) are the same for a 'begin' and 'end' tag pair encountered sequentially.

There may be any kind of text apart from other section tags in between a 'begin' and 'end' tag.

The following would be 'error' conditions:-

  • 2 'begin' tags placed without an intervening 'end' tag (with a name equivalent to the first begin.
  • 'begin' tag does not match next 'end' tag encountered sequentially.
  • 'end' tag encountered without corresponding 'begin' tag, or 'end' tag encountered before corresponding 'end' tag.

If such a script is impossible then fair enough.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 07:10, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Page:Chronological_Table_and_Index_of_the_Statutes.djvu/363 and ongoing..Edit

The following contains a complex index statutes.

It would be appreciated if someone could read User:ShakespeareFan00/Statute_index and comment on which of the 3 example layouts I've implemented would be the best option.

I have 3 example layouts in my userspace (none of them is ideal.) and I would appreciate the views of other contributors BEFORE I try to implement a consistent approach across the entire index.

The pages are:

If the intention advice is to provide a a basic list and not worry about matching the formatting in the scan, then I would prefer to use Example3 for simplicity, even though it doesn't match entirely with the nominal spec I tried to write. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 06:52, 7 June 2021 (UTC)