TeysaKarlov

Welcome to Wikisource

Hello, TeysaKarlov, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for joining the project. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• Help pages, especially for proofreading
• Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource
• Style guide
• Inclusion policy
• Wikisource:For Wikipedians

You may be interested in participating in

• Proofread of the Month
• Monthly Challenge
• Requested texts

Add the code {{active projects}}, {{PotM}} or {{Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your user page and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either

• Wikisource:Scriptorium; or
• Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use! In discussions, please "sign" your comments using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username if you're logged in (or IP address if you are not) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click edit) and place {{helpme}} before your question.

Again, welcome! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 07:57, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Monthly Challenge :)

Just a quick note to say thank you for your work on the Monthly Challenge!

Also, just to maybe save you a few key presses, you do not need {{hws}} and {{hwe}} for most text: the software automatically joins hypens that cross page boundaries (see H:HYPHEN for details).

Thanks again! Inductiveload—talk/contribs 00:01, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

I would like to second Inductiveload's sentiment. I'm profoundly grateful for all your hard work on the Monthly Challenge. Languageseeker (talk) 00:27, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello,

Thank you both for the appreciation. However, I expect my current contributions are 'above-average' (not that I yet have an average), as it is only while my thesis is under examination that I have a bunch of spare time to commit to something productive.

Anyway, thanks again for the kind comments, and, of course, thanks for all of (both of) your past and present contributions to Wikisource.

If you would also humour me two questions:

First, is there a way to filter non-monthly challenge texts based on e.g. <50 pages to proofread, validate etc.?

Second, is there a way to finish partially complete texts that are "live" on Wikisource? For example, one of the works I always used to like reading was "Poems That Every Child Should Know", and I hoped that on joining Wikisource I could just proofread the last of the poems in Book IV. But there don't seem to be scans for them. The same seems to be true for "Grimm's Household Tales Volume 1 and 2" (1884, Margaret Hunt), and, of course, the same is probably true for many other texts I haven't read. Anyway, are these scans located somewhere on Wikisource that I just can't seem to find, or have they not even been digitized whatsoever? TeysaKarlov (talk) 00:53, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Page number location

Thank you for moving the {{smallrefs}} to the footer [Page:The Works of H G Wells Volume 4.pdf/55 e.g.], but please note that the footnotes should appear above the page number, not below it. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:19, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for the hint. I had where refs should go on my list of things to check up on, and was looking for another work in the monthly challenge that had page numbers at the bottom to see what order things should turn up in, although I guess I don't have to now.

Thanks again, and I will fix the order of things up if you haven't already. TeysaKarlov (talk) 01:26, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

End of page br

The <br /> at the end of a page is there to ensure a blank line between a concluded stanza and the next. If you add one, it will separate two parts of a stanza.

Yes, it is true that you will see a bit wider separation between final lines in the Page namespace. This is a known bug. Proofreading should focus on making the transcluded copy work, even if the Page namespace is a little wonky. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:26, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello,

Thanks for the hint. I wasn't sure about this, and as is my general way of doing things, I thought I would just keep working through to see how often I might see a break at the end of a page you had proofread (I only saw one, and wondered whether this was intentional).

Thanks again, and I will go back and change things. TeysaKarlov (talk) 01:29, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

I have been making a second look, so you do not need to go back through. I like to know if I am making errors, and if so, where I made them. You did catch some errors in the front matter. Thanks.

Also, I have only transcribed through page 53, and Notes at the end, so there are 25 pages I have no yet done. I do hope to have it finished by tomorrow. Thanks for Validating! --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:32, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello,

Given the line break issue, I thought I would check first, but some of the italicized scene settings, e.g. '[The Soldiers do such and such' that are on their own lines are not all float-righted. However, at least I cannot figure out the reason why some are and some aren't. Should I float-right them all? Or is this just a 'its okay if the Page namespace is a little wonky' sort of an issue, and I shouldn't be concerned about it? TeysaKarlov (talk) 23:28, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

If they were floated right, then the way they align would vary depending on the margins and type size chosen by a reader. So, for any that are lengthy, I applied a hanging indent at a fixed set of values. The layout in the original varies a bit from page to page, but depends upon the margins being fixed, as well as the fact that only one is visible at a time. If they were all floated right, the indent will look wrong when the pages are transcluded, with them being indented to various degrees and not wrapping correctly. Did you take a look at the transcluded text? Yes, this can be considered a "Page-space can be wonky" issue. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:00, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Please don't convert breaks to the poem tag, it usually indicates that a user deliberately avoided it. Cygnis insignis (talk) 14:21, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi,

Could you please remind me when/where I did this, as I don't remember doing so more than once or twice? I am assuming it was something to do with the Poems of William Blake. If so, I think I presumed that it was multiple people who had been working on the proof reading, which might I have been why I converted it. It might also have been the same poem across two pages, that had two different formattings. All things considered, the formatting for the Poems of William Blake seems to vary haphazardly.

Ultimately, I am sorry if I actually screwed something up with a page you proofread, but it looked alright from my (relatively inexperienced) perspective.

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 22:49, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

smallrefs template

Hi, I see you're adding {{smallrefs}} to lots of pages in the Page: namespace. It's only needed there on pages where there are references. If there aren't any references, it's ignored. If there are any references in a transcluded section of text, then it's needed on the page in the Mainspace. It's not wrong to have a references template on a page with no references, so there's no harm done other than use of your time. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:08, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi, if you see the Scriptorium/Help, you will realise I posted a question about this there (unless you have realised this already). As for what you probably saw in the recent changes log, it was just that I misinterpreted Languageseeker's response (about what "each page" was referring to). Anyway, I have now fixed things, and realised that (what you saw) was a waste of my time. TeysaKarlov (talk) 03:12, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Help with two works in the MC?

I was wondering if you'd be willing to help with Index:The Works of H G Wells Volume 5.pdf or A Study in Scarlet. They're both about to expire this month which would be shame. Languageseeker (talk) 20:23, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi,

Short answer: possibly.

Long answer: I am often hesitant to work on multi-part works (I don't know what to call them, but think of things like the Dial, where there are a bunch of articles put together). If you are just asking for help with a Study in Scarlet p. 50-95 (+ the problematic table), and not the rest of the Beeton's Christmas Annual work, I could probably squeeze it into my plans for this month. As for H.G. Wells, well, I think there is little that can be done about 500 pages in the remainder of a month (I believe I proofread the significant majority of V4 in more than a month, and not being a story, I feel like it was easier to proofread, e.g. less quotation marks and the like). If you can convince a bunch of other people to help with H.G., then I also can, but otherwise I would rather not start. It might be an idea to leave H.G. Wells off for a few months, and maybe add it into the Monthly Challenge later in the year (their are still some cool new to PD texts that I would prefer to work on first, which may also be true for other MC users).

Regards,

TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:34, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Yes, I’m only interested in a Study in Scarlett. You’re probably right about Wells, it’s a bridge to far and there are plenty of other fascinating works. Cheers, Languageseeker (talk) 21:45, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Page:Historic highways of America (Volume 4).djvu/200

Thanks.

You are using the TOC templates to get the Dot leaders? Was there a reason you couldn't do this as a normal table , and set up an Indexstyle? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 06:36, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00 Yes, I was using the TOC to get the dotted lines. I am not sure what an index style is, or how to set one up, which is probably the reason why I didn't use one. If you provide some hints about how to (or a link to the relevant help page) maybe I will next time. TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:33, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Orley Farm

Thank you so much for getting through verifying/correcting my Orley Farm transcriptions, index updates, etc. You've been really helpful :) Nmarshall25 (talk) 23:11, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Nmarshall25 No problem at all. Really though, I should be thanking you. It is a refreshing change to have a new user both daring enough to attempt all sorts of things from the get go, and to be so receptive to changes (as I have been working through, your continued improvements both in accuracy and in matching styles for this work have not gone unnoticed). At this point, it is only a few minor things to fix, like using the longest version of the conventional dashes (— not –; I think the latter is for page number ranges and the like), and using SIC properly, if its use is appropriate. If so, you should put text inside the template, like {{SIC|tpyo|typo}}, although these don't come up all that often, as it is usually just some archaic spelling, or British vs. American English non-issue, which sic isn't really right for. If you were using sic solely for the validator, to tell them to leave something as is, you can always leave a comment instead with < !--comment--> (except without a space between < and !). Anyway, thanks again, all help with the MC (and Wikisource in general) is much appreciated. TeysaKarlov (talk) 05:31, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

@Nmarshall25 It seems, had I finished validating, that you had also figured out dashes and sics. At the very least, I can say that if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Actually, one final hint, page end hyphen is for when you want the hyphen preserved. If the word shouldn't naturally have a hyphen, don't use any template, just leave the hyphen. TeysaKarlov (talk) 06:52, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

The Gospel of Buddha

Hi, the transclusion problems for this work apparently came from the use of {{float center}} around the transclusion command in the main namespace pages ([1]). Nevertheless, I already removed the work from the MC on your request.--Tylopous (talk) 06:15, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Tylopous Okay. Ultimately, I was just concerned (particularly given the discussion over the Elene of Cynewulf) whether the way those pages have been formatted would be considered acceptable by Wikisource standards, particularly for compatibility across multiple devices. It also seems a little odd with the sentences not "connected" because there is an image in the way (although I realise sometimes images are placed mid-sentence and that that is okay). If you personally want it transcluded, I am happy to start a Scriptorium discussion about the right way to transclude the text, but I would be hesitant to proceed as is, (not that the float center fix isn't helpful/good to know).

Thanks,TeysaKarlov (talk) 06:19, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

The work is not on my list of priority projects. I may work on the transclusion myself at some point.

Thank you for being one of the contributors most active on transclusions in the MC.--Tylopous (talk) 06:48, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Tylopous No problem. Feel free to add some more. Also, not sure why, but when I edit the MC Module, nothing seems to happen any more (or at least not for a while). Is this just me and/or am I doing anything wrong (note that v17 Orley Farm and the Defensive Ferments entries I have updated recently to no avail, although Orley eventually appeared as completed, while I am grateful that the duplicate for Historic Highways was noticed and removed)? Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 07:00, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

I also noticed these lags. Now I can see the changes in my browser, but it has taken at least half an hour, if not more, for them to appear.

For me, these lags not only affect the MC page, but also other main namespace pages. For instance, when I removed some paragraph break in the Elene of Cynewulf during validation, it also took at least half an hour before I could see the change in the transcluded text. When I performed analogous changes last year, they appeared almost instantly in my browser also for the transcluded text.--Tylopous (talk) 07:37, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Tylopous I have also seen said main namespace lags, particularly with links being created not immediately swapping to blue. At least there, I find that if I click "edit"-"publish changes" again, even if making no changes, I get an immediate update (including if I edit the source of a text). TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:27, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Greek accents

Hi, the curved variety of accents appears only word-initially and marks whether there is a "rough" or "smooth" breathing (in other words, whether the word was originally pronounced with something equivalent to English "h" or not. But a word starting with a diphthong like alpha+upsilon can have the curved accent on the second letter. Most of the times, there's exactly one other accent (for example one of the straight accents) in a word. But you can safely assume accents appearing late in a word as not being of the "curved" kind.--Tylopous (talk) 21:17, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

There will be some exceptions, where these breathing marks occur in the middle of a word, such as on a double rho, or on a vowel where two words have been contracted together. If you're unsure, you can always ask for help in a specific case. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:50, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey, @Tylopous Thanks for the hints, I will try and keep them in mind. At this stage, my focus is still mainly on getting the letters right, with a bonus if I get the accents (although I swear I can never even find the ones for omega), just to save some work for whoever might look over it. That said, always good to try and improve. Thank you both for whenever you have looked over things in the past, and possibly in the future, as there is now only one page left to be double checked: Page:Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire vol 1 (1897).djvu/536. TeysaKarlov (talk) 02:29, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

I use a toggle setting that allows me to type polytonic Greek using my keyboard, so I don't have to hunt. :) --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Ellipsis w/o spaces

Hi, I see you reverted my edit on page 252 of "The works of H.G. Wells vol. 6", and inserted a space before the ellipsis. As the documentation of this template explains, "The intention is replace an ellipsis with single, non-breaking spaces between the ellipsis marks." If you insert a space between the previous word and the template, there is a chance that the ellipsis "breaks", i.e. is shown on a new line, and not following the previous word. Furthermore, in all the volumes of this work that I've worked on, we have been consistently avoiding the use of that separating space, and I think we should keep it that way. Tromaster (talk) 20:10, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Tromaster,

First, I'll just preface this by saying I don't mind which convention we use. From Vol. 4 onward, I have been consistently using ellipsis the way I originally proofread the page. My interpretation of your above comment and the template page is that the template naturally stop breaks between the ellipsis marks, without needing nowrap. However, the template also doesn't say anything against a break between a word and the ellipsis marks, which I think is intentional, as it just prohibits breaks between the marks (which wouldn't have happened). When you put the ellipsis next to the word (no space) it looks like an end of sentence, and then two ellipsis marks (and I thought that generally 4 ellipsis marks were used at the end of a sentence, but only three were printed). Again, if you are determined to have no space between word and ellipsis, feel free to switch it back again, and I'll leave it as is. I also put an alternate nowrap alternative with the space, if you prefer that.

Regards,

TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:05, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Principia Ethica

Hi, I've been converting the ToC pages into TOC format and have been marking those which have entries split across pages as 'problematic'. I was planning to fix them en masse using <noinclude> and <includeonly> markup so that both the individual pages and the transclusion render correctly. Regards, Chrisguise (talk) 10:57, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Chrisguise,

I see, sorry for meddling then. I guess I figured that if you have to look at the next page to validate the previous anyway, that it may as well be kept simple, and so moved the text.

Thanks for all your help with the MC, particularly the transcluding, TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:11, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you were meddling. Help from any quarter is always appreciated. Chrisguise (talk) 19:33, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Dressmaking - Thanks...

Thanks for working on this :- A_Complete_Course_in_Dressmaking/Lesson_2

I've split the patterns stuff out into it's own section, which works better thematically. You might want to do that for subsequent volumes :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:34, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @ShakespeareFan00,

Ah, no problem. If it ends up in the MC for transclusion there is about a 50% chance I end up working on it.

As for sections, I have generally been sticking to sectioning whatever titles are all caps. Feel free to adjust as you see fit, but I generally avoid such judgement calls if I can.

I didn't notice this before, but do you know why some of the sub-headings don't seem to be transcluding correctly, e.g. Page:A complete course in dressmaking, (Vol. 2, Aprons and House Dresses) (IA completecoursein02cono).pdf/31.

Regards,

TeysaKarlov (talk) 03:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

It's to do with mediwiki trying to wtrap text fragments and failing in this specfic use case. I'm not sure how to solve it right now, other than converting all the headers back to plain-text formatting again, which is waste of my time when someone should sit down and actually FIX the backend so I don't have to implement convoluted workarounds for shortcomings in the wrapping behaviour. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Happy New Years!

Happy New Years! May it bring you all the best this year. Languageseeker (talk) 00:27, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Hey @Languageseeker,

You too! Thanks for the well wishes. Definitely seemed more subdued over New Years here though. No frantic scanning on your end? All good either way, of course. And here's to me hopefully finishing HHoA this year, assuming I can make it through the captivating Volume 16 that awaits me, while it looks like you have a few more (happy) years of Sherlock Holmes ahead of you.

Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 01:25, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Historic Highways of America vol. 10

Hi, after validating the last few pages of volume 10, I wondered whether it might be useful for the coming volumes to work with includeonly and noinclude tags, in order to avoid moving text across page boundaries. The usage of these tags is explained here: [2]. (Chrisguise once pointed me to this useful help page.)

Moreover, in Appendix A, perhaps the table construction could have been avoided by using the template {{-}} after each use of {{float right}}.--Tylopous (talk) 06:28, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Tylopous,

Thanks for the hints. I did think that table got a little out of hand, with how many times I had to move text, however, I don't understand how the includeonly and noinclude tags help with that. Don't I still have to move text, but also have a duplicate on the actual page the text appears? See something else Chrisguise was working on where I hadn't done this but they had: Page:Principia Ethica 1922.djvu/24, Page:Principia Ethica 1922.djvu/25. Thus, when validating, if there is an error, you have to change it in two places, not one, which seemed more annoying. Sorry if it turns out that this is actually less annoying than moving the text.

I was also completely unaware of the {{-}} template, I'll have to try it out.

Thanks again (and particularly for all your validating of HHoA so far), TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:34, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi, you are right, the text still needs to be moved. I didn't put that correctly in my message above. But the tags help to keep the single transcribed pages closer to the original ones.

The {{-}} template more or less adds vertical space so that the next paragraph doesn't collide with the float right above it.--Tylopous (talk) 07:02, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Having seen your comment on Page:Historic highways of America (Volume 11).djvu/63, I wondered whether your problem with this page might be remedied by clearing your browser cache. (I once had a similar problem while proofreading The Country of Pointed Firs.)--Tylopous (talk) 09:42, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

@Tylopous I tried doing this, but it seemed to stubbornly refuse to clear. Never mind now I suppose. Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:37, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Historic Highways of the United Kingdom.

Not quite as organised a series but - https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Harper%2C+Charles+G.+%28Charles+George%29%2C+1863-1943%22&sort=date

You might also need to search Hathi and Google for the other volume of a paired set ... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:43, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00 Thanks for the info. Not sure how interested I am in more historic highways, but maybe. If I don't end up working on one of the other long series in the MC (Philippine Islands, or maybe the Mythology one that went through a few months back), I was thinking of maybe requesting Parkman's Montcalm and Wolfe be added. I thought I might read a couple of pages first to see if I like how the author writes, though. We'll see how we go. At any rate, thanks for keeping an eye out, TeysaKarlov (talk) 19:35, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Poems spanning pages

Hi, and thanks for your edits in the [[History of Woman Suffrage]] volumes. This topic was often discussed and tested more than a decade ago. The best result is ending the poem independently on each page. This should be guided by the final result displayed in the main namespace page, from where one would print. That is what needs to be considered alongside the display. — ineuw (talk) 05:47, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Curly quotes, etc. in 'Tristram'

Hi, Don't mind either way. I tend to make quite a lot of use of the 'Clean up OCR' tool, which converts curly quotes, commas, etc. to straight ones, but I also have the tool installed that converts them back too. Chrisguise (talk) 12:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Works for the Monthly Challenge

In case there are few nominations for the MC in any particular month, alternative places for finding works include:

• Wikisource:Requested texts and yearly subpages
• Wikisource talk:Proofread of the Month declined
• Category:Mainspace pages with transcluded OCR errors
• Category:Migrated texts requiring clean up
• Category:Incomplete texts
• Category:Texts to be migrated to scans
• Works by authors previously in the MC
• Previous incomplete works

I also include one or two documents related to current affairs. MER-C 10:44, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi @MER-C,

A very helpful list of lists. I might add a couple more, but so many choices...

Thanks,

TeysaKarlov (talk) 21:38, 1 April 2024 (UTC)