Were you able at all during the Three Years you were there, knowing the different Purchasers of Land, to form any Idea as to any fixed or settled Rate of Value for Land that the Chiefs entertained amongst themselves?
- The general Rule is, that they say it is our Thoughts, not theirs; the Word is, “It is your Thoughts, not mine;" that is, “What will you give me?” The Europeans fix the Price generally under what they really intend to give, and add the other in afterwards as a Reward or free Gift; they generally throw in some extra Price, such as Scissors and Tobacco and Pipes, and so on; Razors and Shaving Boxes sometimes.
When a Chief sells any Land does he keep the whole Price himself, or are there others entitled to a Part?
- It is distributed all round; every Chief takes his Share, and the head Chief seldom takes more than a petty Chief, unless it is given him by the Purchaser; then it is considered as a Present from the Gentleman who bought the Land.
Have you an Opportunity of knowing whether the Chiefs generally were desirous of parting with their Land, or whether they did it with Reluctance?
- They were very anxious to sell it. I had Land offered to me, but I had no Payment to give them, neither did I want any.
In taking the Surface of the Island, as compared with the Population, is there a great deal of Land more than the present Population is likely to cultivate?
- Yes, a very great deal indeed; I have passed over Fifty Miles of Country with not an Acre cultivated, fine rich Soil, from Puriri to Matamata by Land, crossing the River Thames twice.
When an Advance was made for the Sale of Land, do you know any thing of the Manner in which that Land was appropriated to the Purchaser; was there any Ceremony or Form adopted by the Natives?
- There is no Form, no Taboo, to Europeans; that is confined to the Natives; it becomes British Property and they look upon it as such; they may hold it as a Taboo so far to Europeans for a short Time, during a short Absence from the Country, but if the Europeans were to leave it for several Years, and not to cultivate it, I would not be bound to say they would not sell it to a Purchaser after a few Years; they would look upon the former Purchaser as dead.
Supposing a Purchaser to take possession and cultivate the Land, do you consider that the Native feels that he is giving up all Title to that Land?
- He is looking forward to become a Gentleman; he first receives Payment, and then he is employed upon the Land; consequently he is richer, he considers, than he ever would be without that; they get a Payment for the Land and another for working upon it, they say.
Do you mean to say that they consider that an Advantage greater than the Possession of the Land in its unimproved State?
- Yes; they look upon it as useless at present, for they can appropriate it to no Purpose whatever; they say they have no Spades or Ploughs, and what should they cultivate it for if they had, for they have Plenty of Food; this is the Conversation of the Natives to me.
Did you find the Natives generally intelligent?
- Very intelligent; not at all inferior in point of Intellect to Europeans.
Are you aware of any Instance in which Land has been bought by Europeans from the Natives and afterwards sold again by the Europeans?
- I do not recollect an Instance at present. The Natives have wanted to take it back again.
Was that the native Chief who sold it?
- No; the Son, because it was not taken possession of. Mr. Shepherd bought an Island in the Bay of Islands, of a Chief at the Bay; a European from New South Wales arrived, and offered to give Four Times as much, after this Land had lain dormant a considerable Time; this Land had been purchased a considerable Time before this European arrived. The young Chief took part of the Payment, as much as he had received for it, to Mr. James Shepherd the
