198.84.253.202

Wikisource

This is the English Wikisource. Works hosted here must be in English. Works in Latin should be added to the Latin Wikisource, and not here. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:26, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: My bad. There happens to already be a page with the text in Latin anyway on Latin Wikisource, I'll just go and fix the page on WP, and the page here can be deleted (under whatever criteria is applicable, including creator request). 198.84.253.202 03:30, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for checking and responding. I'll take care of the deletion. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:31, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Hymnal, and Please get an account :)

Thanks for your musical fixes on the Army and Naval Hymnal.

If you are serious about editing on Wikisource, Please get an account, so I can thank you in the interface. :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:15, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Also on some of the tunes you may wish to consider if differing instrumentation is appropriate, https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3AmidiInstrument+prefix%3APage%3AThe+Army+and+Navy+Hymnal.djvu&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns100=1&ns104=1&ns106=1&searchToken=3fm4xrdimur7qylx0k02u39zd being some earlier ones that were changed -

(There's a list of instrument names for Lillypond here - http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/midi-instruments.en.html, but it may take a little experimentation to find the right match for some tunes.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:29, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: Yes, concerning instruments. For consistency,:

A) Should we have the same instrument throughout (either piano or organ, but honestly the MIDI piano is sometimes more convincing than the organ (especially when there are multiple repeated notes, ex. here) or

B) Should we adapt depending on the tune (for example, the slower ones, such as Abide with me (which is, usually, performed quite slowly (quarter = 80 beats/m or even less, ex. King's College Choir) - but that tempo doesn't make any sense if we keep the MIDI piano) would get the organ sound or some other sustaining instrument (flute, english horn, or other wind) while the more upbeat ones (ex. this one would keep the piano. 198.84.253.202 02:11, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

It depends on the age of the work, you might need to research into what the original composer was likelty to have used.. Pre 19th century composers are less likely to have used a piano obviously. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 02:13, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Who knows, maybe they used a harpsichord? Just joking, obviously. I was thinking about this more from a purely aesthetic approach - which instrument does better justice to the tune in question. 198.84.253.202 02:16, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: Any idea what might be causing the odd rest in between the two staves here?

Nevermind, fixed. 198.84.253.202 02:29, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Externsive complex lillypond isn;t my area of expertise. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 06:23, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

It's not mine either. 198.84.253.202 14:29, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

On the instrumentation, you clearly know what you are doing, feel free to pick appropriate instrumentations as appropriate.

(Aside) Currently the Lillypond generated audio is single verse samples because it's picked up directly from the display version, a longer term project may be to implement fuller instrumentation/arrangements on sub-pages if you had the time and passion to do so? (And if you had an account, you could certainly place such arrangements on Wikimedia Commons :) )ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:44, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Page:The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu/32

Currently piano, Not sure would work here, as most examples I've heard tend to be specific brass accompaniments to very distinct sort of choral sound you get in a particular part of the United Kingdom. (smiles) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:27, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

There's this version of the Westminster abbey choir (see wikitext) which has pretty much a full organ (at least for the verses where the congregation joins in.) Such instrumentation would also fit with the text associated to the tune. Of course, I kind of mildly dislike the MIDI organ sound I get from the computer, but its the best we can get with lilypond. 198.84.253.202 17:35, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: However, the real issue is that somebody badly formatted the first staff and its impossible to add an instrument without causing an error (I tried). Since I am not interested in toying around with lilypond until I get it right (not in the short term, at least), it can stay as piano for now. 198.84.253.202 17:39, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: Now, after looking around, I think I found something. This website has organ soundfonts in sf2 format (useable with MuseScore, that is), and it is under a compatible license (CC-BY-SA 2.5 license) [I have other, more varied options, but the licensing is incompatible). The simple thing to do is to download the midi files for each of the hymns, then use MuseScore to assign multiple stops (i.e. "instruments") to the tune, export the resulting file in an appropriate format, and upload. I could do that. The only thing left would be to figure out how to include the sound files. 198.84.253.202 18:40, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

In terms of MIDI files, I'm not sure if Wikimedia has Support, I'll ask... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:41, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

The midi files are generated from the lilypond. See any of the hymns. Click at the top. You'll see "download MIDI file" 198.84.253.202 19:43, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

That suggests something may well be possible to do for specific MIDI files generally server side using free sound fonts :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:07, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

I'll ask some more questions of someoen technical when I have more time.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:07, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Hymnal Lyrics

Mediawiki doesn't have an option for 'thanks' to IP contributors but adding the Stanzas helps immensely.. It means I can start to deprecate the poem text versions of the lyrics which were intended to be a stop-gap until proper scoring/stanza markup was implemented. (Rhetorical: How often does a temporary stop-gap become a de-facto permenance on a volunteer effort? ;) ) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:39, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

You're welcome. The answer is, of course, more frequently than one would expect too frequently. 198.84.253.202 20:57, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Hymnal lyrics

Hi. By moving the lyrics into the score, you are making them non-searchable. Having them able to be searched was the rationale for leaving them as poetry below the score. As an example, try putting "Christ the everlasting Lord" into a search. People (including me) don't always remember the first line of a hymn and so we need to make it as easy as possible to find things. [cc @ShakespeareFan00:].

This doesn't mean that I'm not grateful for the tweaks and fixes you're making to the scores. It is very nice to have another experienced LilyPond user here. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:31, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

@Beeswaxcandle: No problem. Though, there are already plenty of indices just for that purpose included in the original material (The Army and Navy Hymnal/Hymns). 198.84.253.202 19:01, 9 June 2018 (UTC)