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Archived talk between 2013-07-01 to 2013-12-31

Hi by AlexEdit

Hi Ineuw, how do you do? Here I am, and here I'll stay some time. I invite you to User:Alex brollo/Editing tools: the best of my "tool production", I can't edit nsPage without them. :-)

I wait for your remarks, suggesions, and… laughts if my tools deserve them. :-)

Feel free to reply here if you like, and don't waste your time posting an alert in my talk page… I'll keep this page under strict control. But if my reply is too late, then alert me. --Alex brollo (talk) 20:32, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi and welcome back. It’s nice to see you and will check out your editing tools ASAP. — Ineuw talk 20:52, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks; your suggestions would be unvaluable, both for tools and… to verify if documentation is understandable. :-) --Alex brollo (talk) 22:01, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Sure, I already glanced at it and will gladly help with the documentation, but I am waiting for the English translation of the names. — Ineuw talk 22:09, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes! I’ll do; but it’s a little tricky since I’d like to use a "centralyzed" version of scripts, so I’ve to carefully edit main script into it.source "teaching it" to change it’s behavior in different projects/languages. Keep into consideration that these are only a small selection of existing tools… ;-) --Alex brollo (talk) 08:22, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
Of course, I realize what you are doing and how it comes about. The translations I attempted on the the editing tools page earlier were mostly for my curiosity.— Ineuw talk 08:28, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
News here: User:Alex brollo/Editing tools; I added something interesting :-) --Alex brollo (talk) 09:37, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
This is great and thanks for keeping updated. If you wish to further promote your tools, perhaps you would consider linking them to an example on a it.wikisource page? A "picture" is worth 1,000’s of words. :-) — Ineuw talk 10:57, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. Yes, doc is in embryo state; I’ll add both some screenshot, and some "text before/after", since some tools are really tricky to understand ("toggle annotations"!) just as they are incredibly effective (and simple to use!) while editing. The problem is, that I alternate times of furious proofreading (testing and and testing tools….) and times of furious invention/fixing of new or old tools… here I’ve to do both: I’m proofreading Index:De re metallica (1912).djvu just to test and adapt tools to a new environment. I can do two thing (proofread and fix tools) but here I’ve to do four (learning local uses, templates etc; proofreading; fixing/adapting tools… and document the whole thing!) and I feel myself a little confused ;-) --Alex brollo (talk) 11:36, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
There is no rush and don’t push yourself. Although I already envisaged your tool’s use when working in Xubuntu, I am in no hurry to implement them for the very reasons you mentioned. Too much all at once.:-)— Ineuw talk 12:12, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
I documented a little bit the most important tool: "toggle annotations". It can save the life of proofreaders dealing with some terrible, annotations-rich text. Take a look and tell me if it is the usual "wheel". ;-) --Alex brollo (talk) 07:05, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Alex. This is very impressive2!!!! — Ineuw talk 12:37, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
You can't imagine how the code is simple..... and if you like you can use the trick too to inser notes from scratch: simply, add a "bookmark" where the note has to go into the text, apply ref tags where the notes are in OCR (at the bottom of the page), both actions being shot by note button (no selection: bookmark; selection present: ref tags added); so.... click; select, click; click, done. :-) --Alex brollo (talk) 15:58, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Well Ineuw, I'm going to leave again en.source for some time. I got what I needed: the proof that my tools and scripts can be exported into a completely different environment, while letting them in a "centralyzed" location, and that - with some edit - they can be used into other projects. Next step, to test the same into la.wikisource - where the Editio princeps of De re metallica is waiting and finally into oldwikisource, that was - from the beginning - my goal. Feel free to ask me any more doc or details about the tools and the ideas I let here. I hope, they help someway someone. --Alex brollo (talk) 13:20, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
Again many many thanks Alex. The tools really help me with setting up my editing environment in Linux. Hope to see you back soon. — Ineuw talk 13:23, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
What browser do you use under Linux? If it is Chrome, I've good news. --Alex brollo (talk) 04:23, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi Alex. Using only Firefox because I am comfortable with it in Windows and Mac as well (I acquired an older MacBook some time ago to give me mobility). At this point, if I were to explore additional software, it would seriously sidetrack me from proofreading work which I want to advance. But, that doesn’t mean that I am won’t add others in the near future. Your countryman Mpaa, has been encouraging me to delve into Python, and I am also interested in increasing familiarity with javascript . . . slowly. Sadly, there is only 24 hours in a day - So little time, so much to do. — Ineuw talk 14:40, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
My suggestion is: if you like editing, go deeper into javascript (to build your own editing tools, there's a great need of tools to make editing simpler/faster!) and boldly try Scribunto/Lua; if you want to pause yur editing work, and you want to drive a bot, OK, python is needed. But presently I see some confusion about pywikipedia; there's a controversy trunk/rewrite, and pywikipedia has just migrated into GIT... my suggestion is, to wait some weeks/some months. --Alex brollo (talk) 14:19, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Alex. I looked at the issue of the change to GIT from SVN. Although I installed pywikipedia some time ago, I never used it and probably need to reinstall it with GIT. As for editing tools I am content for the time being with what you gave me. — Ineuw talk 14:31, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

krummlauf photographEdit

Hello, I work for a TV show and we would like to use your photograph of the krummlauf (curved barrel on gun). How can I best contact you to give you some more details?


Jenny Beyond Productions

To clarify, I am not the original creator. My involvement was transferring the image from Wikipedia to the Wikimedia Commons. In this particular case, the File:Krummlauf.jpg is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported license. This means that you are required to attribute the image to the original creator Der rikkk on Wikipedia. FYI, Wikimedia Commons images are generally in the public domain, with the exception of trademark logos, but please check the license type and the license documentation attached to the image. I hope this helps and if you have any additional questions, please post here again.— Ineuw talk 10:44, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikisource User GroupEdit

Wikisource, the free digital library is moving towards better implementation of book management, proofreading and uploading. All language communities are very important in Wikisource. We would like to propose a Wikisource User Group, which would be a loose, volunteer organization to facilitate outreach and foster technical development, join if you feel like helping out. This would also give a better way to share and improve the tools used in the local Wikisources. You are invited to join the mailing list 'wikisource-l' (English), the IRC channel #wikisource, the facebook page or the Wikisource twitter. As a part of the Google Summer of Code 2013, there are four projects related to Wikisource. To get the best results out of these projects, we would like your comments about them. The projects are listed at Wikisource across projects. You can find the midpoint report for developmental work done during the IEG on Wikisource here.

Global message delivery, 23:21, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Ports of the world - Canton (1920)‎Edit

Hello Ineuw,

Thanks for the images. While I do not understand some of the changes you made to subj, they are minor and I cannot overlook the fact that you are much better with images than I ever had been and the idea of a full-fledged project is great.

Now talking about PSM, I think I need to clarify my primary interests since I have been randomly proofreading pages there lately. It looks like you know PSM better than I do, so I appreciate the idea that you might direct my efforts when you find a match. I am interested in all things Sino-Tibetan (apart from items about China/Tibet, they include such ethnic/linguistic designations as British Raj's Meithei, Bodo-Garo, Ahom...) and their extension to the New Continent in the framework of Staroistin's Dene-Caucasian theory (that is, Navajo, Salish, Tlingit...). Only a part of this interest is professional, that is, the Tibetan part. I might be interested in Russia and Mongolia, and neighboring or residing ethnic groups as well. I also might be interested in works of broader scope that touch identity issues (race, ethnicity, anthropology...). Tar-ba-gan (talk) 16:56, 31 July 2013 (UTC) PS I live in that Canton (and I am not Chinese)

I am curious what changes in the Canton work you are referring to, and will gladly provide answers. Also, you should categorize Ports of the world - Canton (1920)‎ as Category:China, as well as list the work in the China or a related Portal.
As for PSM, I will send you a note when coming across these topics. Offhand, I remember an article on the Kalmucks in one of the early volumes which may be of interest. Two good places to search are the Wikisource:WikiProject Popular Science Monthly/Categories where articles up to volume 69 have been categorized. For articles between Volumes 70 to 87, only the Table of Contents is available so far. — Ineuw talk 17:28, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
In particular, I do not understand why there were so many changes to the main page of the Ports of the world - Canton (1920)‎. Is there some consensus that dotted TOC lists are not recommended? Also, my main page included publication date transcluded right from the book's end. It is not like I want everything back. I am just genuinely wondering why someone took a job of making an entirely new page while they could rename the old one just as well. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 05:14, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
Hi Tar-ba-gan. The culprit was me and no one else. I ran into problems since I didn't realize that the pages were already transcluded, the .djvu file name was too cryptic, and the main namespace pages had a different root name. After realizing my mistake, I rushed to restore the whole book under the new name and did the layout as I knew how.
To summarize, there are no such rules and its your layout. Apologize if I did something that offended you. In detail: First, if you are referring to dot leaders in the Table of Contents, personally I never used them, and didn't even notice that they existed in your old copy. {{Dotted TOC page listing}} is one of the templates used for inserting dot leaders. Second: I can't find anywhere the page at the end of the book listing the publication date you mentioned, and which I would like to restore. — Ineuw talk 06:05, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
Wow. Now looking at page 60 I understand that my entire proofreading is gone! Unbelievable. The publication date is at the bottom of the page and I remember the page being in good shape. It looks like you recreated the whole book (or the most of it) from nothing (ok, from raw djvu file) again, while in the logs it looked like the pages I created were just being renamed. Not that it is a big deal, but we could be moving on rather than proofreading the whole thing over again. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 16:08, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
I proofread this page now, but also remember that I copied all proofread pages into this copy. If you need help, let me know which pages need proofreading and will help you. Mea culpa.— Ineuw talk 16:49, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
I got it. I left some pages' status "not proofread" because images were missing, and you just did not bother to copy them. Awright, this is not as bad as I thought. Thanks for all the images! Saves me a lot more time than anything! Tar-ba-gan (talk) 01:13, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the wonderful job! Can you please add pictures for capitals A and H? (for page 26 and page 30)? I guess after that the book is complete! Tar-ba-gan (talk) 15:56, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
No problem. Just give me a few hours and will upload it. — Ineuw talk 17:13, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

  DoneIneuw talk 18:01, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Great job! I am wondering what is the proper way to announce the completed work on the WS main page now. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 19:18, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
Place it at the bottom of this list - which at the time of this writing would be number 68. — Ineuw talk 19:39, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Hello! Please check User talk:Tar-ba-gan bottom of page. I never thought I had uploaded a significant part of images for the book (again, I tried to work with that months ago and was running into all kinds of problems). I would not mind if some of them or all of them have to be removed and all of them (that might be left on the commons) renamed. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 14:06, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Hello Ineuw, can you please continue working on the images? Please merge my earlier images into the system that you designed. I am not going to work with images for any book on WS any time soon. If at any point I may wish to do something about the images for 20th Century Impressions of Hongkong, I am going to contact you first, for the pure reason of keeping a uniform system. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 08:30, 28 August 2013 (UTC) 08:29, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Music snippets in PSMEdit

Hi, I've done some music snippets on a couple of pages in PSM Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 30.djvu/802 and the following page. How do you want to play the page layout for these? At the moment I've just centred most of them, but with such brief wordings between the snippets p803 looks all over the place. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 10:14, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Beeswaxcandle, You're a prince! Many thanks for your help because music notation is truly beyond me and I was stumped what to do.— Ineuw talk 13:33, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
All marked snippets have now been done, with the exception of Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 39.djvu/262, which can't be typeset using the Score extension. I recommend that you grab the image for this one. I'll keep an eye on Category:Texts with missing musical scores and pick up any others that the PSM project finds. I should say that I've done minimal page layout of these pages as I don't know what you're doing. George has set up {{FI}} so that can be used for scores (and math). You can find the list of PSM pages with scores on Special:PagesWithProp/score&limit=500&offset=0 currently starting at #300. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:57, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Special thanks for your help. There may be a few pages in later volumes and will tag them accordingly. For page 262 mentioned above, I will insert the image. Thanks again for everything.— Ineuw talk 07:33, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Answers to your WS:S questionsEdit

  1. monobook
  2. randomly
  3. randomly
  4. mostly (per our previous discussion)
  5. not sure what you mean - I've got 14 works or series on my "in progress" list, but there is also the various music pages in other people's projects
  6. Firefox 23.0.1 Win XP

It sometimes happens that I get the full toolbar, custom buttons and all, but the page image doesn't turn up and when I F5 I get the image, but lose the custom buttons. Grr. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:14, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Our toolbar and image page load problems are identical, with the addition that for me it's with every page edit. In line #4, I meant that "if there is a problem of loading, does the work size (page count) affects the issue." I am spending an inordinate amount of time trying to get to the "bottom" of things, but the issue is way way too complex. I am using Firefox's web tools to see how the page is created and where issues are and already found one small issue, but before reporting it I need to find it again.
Hoping that if more users participate, I can post a coherent bug report on bugzilla. Already reported the image loading issue [1] which began with the previous software version when the toolbar loading was not an issue. This is another problem: version changes occur faster than the bugzilla team can respond. — Ineuw talk 17:32, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
I've also got the clean-up scripts (Hesperian's) only loading sometimes. It's a rare time when I've got all three at the same time (image, scripts and full toolbar) in the Page: namespace. Never a problem in other namespaces. So, it's something to do with the Proofread extension loading. Might be worth tossing to Micru or Tpt or the other Summer of Code people. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:04, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
Yes. Mpaa, you, and I are having the same issues. We are very frustrated because our productivity has dropped. In my case, I can't take advantage of the bad weather. I never connected with anyone from the Summer of Code people. If you don't mind, it's worth a try. I am also surprised that no one else commented on this yet, hoping that it may be due to the beginning of a long weekend in North America. Are you in NA?— Ineuw talk 02:21, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
Spoke too soon. Toolbar not always loading in Mainspace. I'm in NZ (the other end of the alphabet from NA) and 19 hours ahead of you it being mid-afternoon on Saturday here. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:24, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
How nice, a Kiwi. Nice to know you. :-)

Questions related to custom edit toolbar I asked in the Scriptorium:Edit

  1. Skin:
  2. Toolbar loads normally:
  3. OCR page image loads normally:
  4. If there is a problem, what is the page count of the file being edited?:
  5. Browser, version and OS:

I don't know if its related to your troubles but I noticed mwCustomEditButtons is no longer a valid load.php option and was marked deprecated at the start of this month --> See Bugzilla:50310. They've been making it clear for several months now that the "old" javascript way of adding buttons was no longer going to be supported & was eventually going to be phased out when WikiEditor/VisualEditor gained a toe-hold - that might have been the last gasp (officially that is) & your spotty performance might somehow be related to that ongoing process (but I've been wrong before). -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:11, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. Yes it is directly related as I posted 3 Bug reports early this morning EST. For me it's a big problem because I only need the 12-14 German/French characters used regularly in PSM. Wonder if I could independently declare my own object variable like "mw.toolbar" and its elements, actions & properties? — Ineuw talk 04:30, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
I wouldn't know; sorry.

I get the sense you are in a bit of denial here - dropping the old custom .js butons support was a long time coming & the same is going to happen with the custom edit toolgroups found at the bottom of the old-style editor too. What are you going to do then? Keep patching things everytime the base code changes?

I didn't like the "new" WikiEditor at first either but by current standards its not all that bad. Eventually those menus will be customizable too so why not make the switch already and get a head start? (If anything, WikiEdtor has too many freakin' special characters and groups loaded by default so all your editing needs should be covered by it as it stands today). Its just a pain in the ass to relearn something that was working fine for all this time is all. -- George Orwell III (talk) 05:21, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

It's not that I am in denial, it's that over the summer the toolbar convenience helped me to develop a very productive routine where I was able to proofread up to, and sometimes exceeding 60 pages per day. Now, I have to familiarize myself with a decidedly poorer system with superfluous and time wasting features. This is specially upsetting because from what I gather it's going to be temporary. Just look at the related problems mentioned in bug reports #54309 and #54310. Sorry if I offend anyone, but I find it a very poor approach in planning and implementation.— Ineuw talk 06:53, 20 September 2013 (UTC)


Not sure where I read about the "Your edit has been saved." message banner being a problem (or if even this will help) but I figure best to let you know how to disable the class in your custom .css file anyway. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:32, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

/* Hide popup "Your edit has been saved." */
.postedit {
	display: none !important;
Thanks GO3. I added it to my custom CSS. This issue was around last August. I think they did some correction but the message still slows down editing. I will let you know the results later
Um FYI, the SyntaxHighlight tag is just a more advanced way to accomplish what a PRE tag wrapper normally does in our discussions - you shouldn't have pasted those tags into your local .CSS file with the class attribute setting(s) (which I took the liberty of making more closer to being spec. compliant at the same time as removing the SyntaxHighlight tags). See if you are still having SOURCE tag, etc. display issues now. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:57, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Feel a bit stupid, but then, there is nothing new there. The answer to your question is: the save message disappeared. Again my thanks. — Ineuw talk 02:21, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Native Flowers Of New Zealand (1888)Edit

Ineuw, here is the book for Beeswaxcandle, —Maury (talk) 17:13, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Downloaded both the djvu and JP2 versions. Working with the JP2 version in which every page is a separate scan, this is the preliminary info:
  • The book is really nice and there is a clearly scanned paragraph on it's own page preceding each image.
  • The images are in beautiful color and are preceded by two empty pages (one regular and one tissue paper) and followed by a single blank page to protect the images, thus making the 240 page book with about 83 pages.
My question is, shall I attempt to reduce the number of blank pages or upload it as is? I am also placing a {{Talkback}} on Beeswax candle's page linking this post. — Ineuw talk 23:14, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Reduce the number of pages. I had the problem when downloading .pdf files one-by-one from HathiTrust as required of anyone who has no affiliation with a university, &c. That system will also stop downloading one-by-one and make us wait a few minutes which is also annoying but I edited for a while. It was most annoying downloading so many blank.pdf pages. I deemed them to be excessive and I do not think we need all of those blank pages on en.WS They just take up space and have markings on some of them. I suppose the best idea is to delete the "tissue" pages--or whichever blank image looks the worse. I see no reason for the extra pages UNLESS there is a text layer embedded within any of them. Are there? I never touched the already individual .PDF pages. I just combined them all in Adobe Acrobat Pro XI. (11.0.04) The watermarks are very easy to remove. Google ads, university ads, and other water-markings "nevermore". I think we should use as little space as possible. A paper book needed the blank and the tissue pages but we are not doing a paper book here. Question: Do blank pages ever carry a text layer or other hidden information within which would be needed for any reason? If not then I would have cleaned those blank pages as only blank images. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 03:46, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
The blank pages were used to surround and protect the images in the original. There is no text, so I will remove them. — Ineuw talk 04:46, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Removing the tissue pages sounds fine to me. However, I recommend that a note is added to the File page when it's uploaded to Commons to indicate that this was done. This way we show that we haven't compromised the integrity of the original work, and at the same time have made it more usable in a digital format. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:51, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Will do that. It'll take me a few days to split the book to so many parts and remove the empty pages. — Ineuw talk 05:36, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Ineuw, have you ever seen any of these flowers of New Zealand? I am not familiar with any I've seen and I used to do various kinds of work with flowers for my mother such as planting and photographing them for her. She placed the photos in albums and as a nurse, she started taking her flower albums to the hospital where she worked. If you have ever been stuck in a hospital you will probably see what I saw, one danged picture hanging on a wall day after day. Mom's flower albums cheered elderly patients up. I also sneaked some unnamed flowers in - such as flowers that were tiny and didn't come from a flower garden but rather a vegetable garden. &c. e.g. the tiny yellow flower of a cucumber. This way I could learn without asking patients which of them grew up on a farm and remembered what that little yellow flower came from. It was fun for them and most all of the ladies at some point recognized that flower. They became happier than before seeing the flower albums. Hospitals should have the modern digital rotating photos instead of one framed on the wall. I used a close up lens and the smallest of flowers looked large. I started this after my father died. He planted all kinds of foods and helped mom in her flower garden. I picked up when my father passed away. It became a fun and productive hobby for me. I've loved flowers ever since. But these New Zealand flowers don't look at all familiar to me. I wonder if Beeswaxcandle has seen any of them, or if these flowers are common or rare in New Zealand. Wouldn't the author have picked flowers only unique to New Zealand? This is a curiosity and botanical learning situation! —Maury (talk) 06:22, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Need your helpEdit


Long story short - I've screwed up my access to the Bugzilla site which is preventing me from requesting the change outlined & supported in my Scriptorium proposal. Is there any chance you can add it there for me?

It's coming up on being 2 months old as it is so there is no rush; let me know either way. -- George Orwell III (talk) 06:37, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

You bad boy. :-D Thoroughly read your proposal, including the links relating to the topic, and created this bugzilla request. If I missed something, just let me know. FYI, I have no problem with helping you or anyone else, so don't hesitate to ask for help when you need it.— Ineuw talk 09:06, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
GO3. There is already a response to the issue on Bugzilla.— Ineuw talk 10:03, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I really don't care to debate the request's merits - Either enable the tag recognition or don't - nobody is asking to be able to use the IMG tags with any "external" images; only those images already hosted on Commons, MediaWiki & other secure foundation sites.

Please reaffirm the fact we aren't looking to have the IMG tags to work with anything external let alone external image Files. -- George Orwell III (talk) 10:21, 15 September 2013 (UTC)$wgAllowExternalImages (leave set to 'false')$wgAllowImageTag (change setting to 'true')
Posted as instructed.— Ineuw talk 16:46, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Guess by now you've read all the posts on Bugzilla. — Ineuw talk 23:23, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
<sigh> yeah; just did. It confirms my theory unfortunately - the File: mark-up/short-cut wasn't only dreamt up to make life easier for newcomers when dealing with images - it also was used as a layer of security; though what idiot thinks disallowing a common & universally used HTML tag is a sane approach to security instead of just maintaining a fairy static whitelist of 2 to 3 dozen wiki foundation domains is beyond me.

I have no problem maintaining a "whitelist" of allowed sites in spite of the fact all wiki foundations should have been the default whitelist of sites that were allowed to host & call image files from day one (lazy & stupid programming imo - like a dog chasing its tail).

If they can't make it first possible to enable the use of the IMG tag without having to also enable external sites only to retard that by additionally having to add a whitelist (which would never point to any external domains anyway), then I guess I'll play along with this Obama-style 'programming from behind' mentality we seem to suffer from. -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:21, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

I really sympathise with you, but please leave Obama out of it. He's got enough problems as is. :-D.— Ineuw talk 07:46, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Good news?Edit

Andre Klapper changed bug 54144

What Removed Added
Keywords shell
Summary AllowImageTag @ en.wikisource Set $wgAllowImageTag to true on en.wikisource
Severity normal enhancement
Nah... looks like some housekeeping changes were made only. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:52, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
Just posted an inquiry. — Ineuw talk 23:18, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Block on my js toolsEdit

Hi Ineuw, yes, my tools have a banal problem coming from http: -> https: shift, I fixed them into it.source but I forgot to fix them here. I'm going to try to fix the issue. --Alex brollo (talk) 04:22, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Alex, there is no hurry. mystery solved :-) — Ineuw talk 20:07, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm happy to tell you that I fixed a series of issues, and I got my aim: to have a set of centralyzed scripts (on oldwikisource) running into any project, and a single "project specific set of tools", the former ones calling the latter one.
If you like, take a look to User:Alex brollo/common.js (calling the set of oldwikisource scripts) and to User:Alex brollo/PersonalButtons.js (calling the list of "local button tools"). I'll test the whole thing editing some pages of Index:De re metallica (1912).djvu. --Alex brollo (talk) 13:48, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
One by one, I am fixing my tools. They run under my so ketpuppy account too; let mi take a look to your code..... ok, found; please copy as-it-is User:Alex brollo/PersonalButtons.js into your User:Ineuw/PersonalButtons.js (now empty), then purge and purge again "deeply". As soon as you'll see your buttons, I'll tell you how add new ones with their very simple syntax. --Alex brollo (talk) 13:41, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi. I created the page as instructed - did several cache cleanings - still no results, but I am optimistic.
Sometimes lots of patience is needed. Are you using Chrome? If you'll get no result, I'll copy all your code into my socketpuppy account and I'll test it for subtle, user-related bugs. A suggestion: if you never tried, merge the code of your common.js and vector.js pages - the less js pages that the software has to upload, the smallest the probability of such bugs. --Alex brollo (talk) 14:27, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate your giving so much time. I am using Firefox 24. and I removed all code from the Vector.js and the Common.js is empty. The code in vector.js may have interfered. I'll keep on proofreading and see.— Ineuw talk 14:37, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
All runs for me under Firefox 2.4.0 as Alex brollo bis. --Alex brollo bis (talk) 15:03, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Please Ineuw, as soon as you can I need beedback.... or I'll forget anything for months! ;-) --Alex brollo (talk) 13:54, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
I see that both your vector.js and common.js seem empty... you need those three rows of code into one of them, or nothing will run:
--Alex brollo (talk) 13:59, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
Everything seems to be working. Thanks. Now. . . . can I ask how I can add buttons? :-) — Ineuw talk 15:48, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
Hurra! Yes you can for sure: but I'll add "button sybtax" into User:Alex brollo/Editing tools, feel free toedit theat page and/or to ask anything into its talk page. --Alex brollo (talk) 15:56, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
I studied the button instructions and understand. Thank you again.— Ineuw talk 16:08, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
Consider the whole stuff a pre-alpha version; some of actions are really complex. I just added a little bit of doc about building new buttons. Feel free to use/to edit/to share anything you like. --Alex brollo (talk) 16:43, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Model for special char insertionEdit

Try this "model button":

newButton("//", "incapsula('Æ','')", "es");

It drops a Æ at the cursor position, or it adds the character at the beginning of selection. But it can't replace selection - if you would like something whic replaces selection, a new function is to be written (far from a difficult task). --Alex brollo (talk) 21:40, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to your suggestion, I added a new replSel(text) function to shared library, it replaces selection with text and can be wrapped into a "special character button". All your buttons are ready to be copied from User talk:Ineuw/PersonalButtons.js into User:Ineuw/PersonalButtons.js. I added them to my personal set since I'm profreading some Latin pages and I feel them useful :-) --Alex brollo (talk) 22:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Future changesEdit

I'm going to rewrite all the stuff again; but I will not change present scripts, I'll test a new set with different sources. The idea is, to merge all general library into one script only, and to generalyze the "personal buttons trick" so that any personal script could generate an "edit tool" or a "button". Did you test the "show" tool in view mode? Isn't it very useful? --Alex brollo (talk) 07:10, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Proposal about Alex toolsEdit

Hi Ineuw, can we talk about tools here: User:Alex brollo/PersonalButtons and/or its talk page? Your questions/comments are extremely interesting, they could be appreciated too by other users. --Alex brollo (talk) 07:24, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Tools are running into any textarea or input areaEdit

Please replace all incapsula( with incaps( in your page PersonalButtons.js and test the result (after purging purging...).

Thanks for vis a tergo. ;-) --Alex brollo (talk) 14:56, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Formatting help neededEdit

My turn of asking for help.. I put some questions here: Wikisource:Scriptorium#Formatting_.26_images_help_needed, can you take a look? Thanks! --Alex brollo (talk) 09:11, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

It's my pleasure to help. Let me visit the page links in the Scriptorium.— Ineuw talk 09:33, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
In the meantime I'm working about a promising "edit trick".
Imagine to have your focus just before a character a; imagine that you simply click your mouse while keeping ShiftKey pressed; imagine that as a result the character a rotates into the options "aàâäæ". No button, nothing but Ctrl+click; and imagine that any difficult character could rotate with the same trick into a list of its common variants ("oœôö", "eèêë","nñ",...). Would you like such a shortcut? It's only a matter to add some code into User:Alex brollo/Crtl-click ... presently it only works with a :-) . --Alex brollo (talk) 19:44, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Let me know how I can link it to currently.— Ineuw talk 21:00, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
It seems to run.... and it runs into any field/textarea. To test it copy what follows "now let's try the "click + ShiftKey trick:" in User:Alex brollo/PersonalButtons.js into your page. I'll move from there as soon as I tested the trick a little deeper. --Alex brollo (talk) 05:42, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

It.source newsEdit

Can I invite you to come and see two gadgets working in it.source? I and a friend, Barbaforcuta (deep into "editing interface manipulation") have a sysop account there, so tahan we can create and share gadgets.

You know the first one - it's name is "Click" and implements the "Click + Ctrl" trick to rotate, into a list of alternative characters, the character following the focus; Barbaforcuta implemented "" that collapses/expands navigation menu (installing the default script that works into translate tool... do you know it? if you don't, try that little arrow on left top of the linked page. You'll findthe same into it.source. --Alex brollo (talk) 07:45, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

About FreedImgEdit

I imported tl|FreedImg into it.source, but I can't understand how it runs here (it it.source obvioulsy it doesn't run since img is not resized). Where the trick to self-resize the imag is hidden? Is perhaps some js script, or some extension? I see that there's a class=FreedImg into inner containers, but I can't find the code defining/using this class. --Alex brollo (talk) 20:10, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

It's still being imported from my user subpages... see User:George_Orwell_III/common.css/dynimg.css for the class attributes and settings. I think that's all you need to copy/mirror in the .it Common.css file to make the dynamic resizing work. FYI - All the other stuff (FI template subpages) are other folks trying to standardize FI for their own works & not always really inline with the primary FI "goal". Again, if my request for IMG tags on WS.S is made a reality, I could really finish up FreedImg and possibly make it a standard snippet or something. Feel free to ask me anything if you have ideas/questions related to FI. Prost. -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:04, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi! Thanks, now it runs perfectly into it.source too.
I found a band-wasting drawback - the image is downloaded in full size then it's resized; but I saw that you can "inject thumbnail size" into the parameter file simply adding pixel size using usual wiki markup
|file=042 Lecco - sullo sfondo il Resegone.jpg
|file=042 Lecco - sullo sfondo il Resegone.jpg|640px
--Alex brollo (talk) 06:02, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
The specified image (Smile 3.gif|link=User talk:Alex brollo) is invalidIneuw, thanks for your link to the so-inspiring, even if so difficult, Template:FI! My hope is, to have contributed usefully. You see on the right an example of the new version of FI, but to show resizing you need to copy into your common.css or vector.css the mostly simple css you find into User:Alex brollo/common.css; note that link is running too. The css is so simple that I can to post it here:
a {width:inherit;}
img.newFreedImg {width:inherit;height:auto;}
--Alex brollo (talk) 20:57, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

FreedImg behavior changedEdit

Kind of confused in light of Alex's notification, etc. above. For instances where you don't really want to dynamically resize an image based on the source file's dimensions but size it relation to some other element (like floating an image as if where a span of text within a larger paragraph of text [without causing line-breaks etc.] just use {{FIS}} instead of {{FI}}). I'm really sorry if that was not made clear enough.

so in your Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 82.djvu/291, the image "floated" to the right is more about only taking up half of the column body of text starting within a partcular paragraph than re-sizing to half of the .png file's width dimension. Fixing the width (px) only makes rendering in the mainspace problematic for Users that have display settings far from your own never mind the Dynamic Layouts thing. -- George Orwell III (talk) 07:29, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again for the wonderful solution. First of all, I didn't yet add Alex's css code to my css page, so I can't comment on it. I have an inkling of the problems I will be facing in the main namespace and decided to deal with when time comes - which is far off. Currently, I am struggling with the changed mouse behavior where scrolling was changed to magnifying. However, I will pursue this issue in the Scriptorium. Many thanks again. — Ineuw talk 13:38, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
Ummm if you currently see the image floating right & the width of the image always around half of the text-column body, then there is nothing to add - it's already part of the .CSS that I'm 'feeding' to the site's Common.css scheme.
to recap..... the issue, boiled down to the most basic of terms, is that this....

[[File:Example.png|right|alt=Example alt text]] not the same as this...

<span style="float:right;">[[File:Example.png|alt=Example alt text]]</span>

The latter produces the output most folks want (captions aside that is) but are stuck on thinking and doing using the former all the time and for every situation.

Don't concern yourself over any this for the time being, Viewer2 & I are looking for a way to have just a single template that floats like the latter (inline, no line breaks/returns) within paragrphs as well as reproduce a stand-alone block for when images appear between other blocks (like between paragraphs). Looks promising so far but there are too many other things "not working" at the moment to be sure. -- George Orwell III (talk) 15:20, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. The image Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 82.djvu/291 is proper only as far as the line breaks are concerned but when I checked another image: Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 65.djvu/430, and changed the template to {{FIS}}, it doesn't have the proper top margin/padding, (5-8px?) the font-size (85%), and the line-height (95%-100%).— Ineuw talk 18:16, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
Thats what happens when hyper-active Italians are allowed to roam free I guess; check it again. And I did say "captions aside that is" earlier. I added a catch-all param ('cstyle' for container style) so you can tweak things like that 'cause addressing "minor" settings & their defaults is a very looong way off right now. -- George Orwell III (talk) 19:20, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
grazie :-) — Ineuw talk 19:47, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

main namespace title page editsEdit

I noticed that there is a Category formatting error(?) in the pages you have been creating. Scroll down to the bottom of each page to see. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:10, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi. This is a work in progress. I generate the title pages from a database and each header contains an empty Category link. I have to do it this way because numerous articles are multiple part and are assigned the same subject categories. This way I save a lot of time by not having to flip back and forth and searching. Categories are assigned once the the main pages' creation is completed - the end of Volume 87. Then, using a list of all articles and their categories, I fill in the missing by reading the articles. — Ineuw talk 00:25, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
Okay. There were two that I "fixed" yesterday since they hit my watchlist radar, but I just reverted myself. Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:30, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Aww, that trick never works.Edit

No.   Viewer2 (talk) 05:35, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

If you are referring to my attempt to create a single login you're right. all wikis create their own cookies again. — Ineuw talk 15:24, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

PSM sdelete requestsEdit

Hi, there are too many links to both of these for me to be comfortable about deleting them. Could you sort those out first? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:30, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi, I am cleaning them up. I know where the links are.— Ineuw talk 07:32, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
PS: Please wait until I change the links :-) It's quicker that way.— Ineuw talk 07:35, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
Completed link updates.— Ineuw talk 07:54, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
  Done Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:10, 22 December 2013 (UTC)


it is hard for me to believe that this multitude of images is ready! I thought it would have taken years. Happy holidays! Tar-ba-gan (talk) 15:43, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

You are most welcome and good luck with the project.— Ineuw talk 18:41, 24 December 2013 (UTC)


Hi, I've declined this speedy deletion. The correct general plural for "fish" is "fish". "Fishes" is only the plural when discussing multiple kinds of fish (c.f. wikt:Fishes). This has already been discussed on the Talk page and the parallel category on enWP is also Fish. I have no problem with Category:Fishes being a redirect to this one, but this one must be the main category. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:37, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying. I don't care which we use. The reason I moved the articles to "Fishes" was because both contained a mix of both, but articles about "fishes" were the majority. Should I move articles on a specific fish back to "Fish"? — Ineuw talk 08:16, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
As you were. In starting to sort it out I've found a conversation at WS:PD in Nov/Dec last year which was closed as redirect from Fish to Fishes. Therefore I've changed it to a soft redirect using the {{Category redirect}} template. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:56, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I assume "as you were" means to leave things as they are? — Ineuw talk 08:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
Yes. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:02, 31 December 2013 (UTC)