Lokal Profil

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Again, welcome! — billinghurst sDrewth 03:55, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

pages, plates, headers and footers

Hi (again).

Pagelist

I thought to help by doing the first 100 "book" pages in the <pagelist /> and leave the rest for you to do. ShakespeareFan finished it though. That was a very complicated bunch of pages for a first book here! Having the scan page linked to the page number can be really helpful while proofing and also does a lot for when the pages get transcluded into the Main space.

Plates in the pagelist

I made the plate pages, which were not numbered in the book, Pl1, Pl2, etc. There is a template {{nsl2}} which will show the links from the transclusion. So it is really easy to link the list of illustrations also, once you know what chapter the illustrations will be in. An example might be (I am making this up) {{nsl2|The Beehive Nebula|/Chapter 3#Pl7}}. The number is included because there are more than one plate per chapter, and this will allow the anchors to work from the imbedded "page numbers". SF called them Img or some such, which will not be helpful for the nsl2 template.

Table of contents

I was impressed to see {{rh}} being used for the table of contents! It worked really well! Truly, it was that which made me to only start on things, as I thought you are probably smart enough to finish them and maybe make them a little better than my start! SF finished that also, but without the links to the scan pages. {{scan page link}} {{scan page link|book page|(scan page - book page)}} is how that works. It is easy math, but I start to use a calculator when the last number of the scan page is smaller than that of the book page. 101-38, for instance. Easy enough but give me the calculator. That does nothing but link the TOC to the scan and only within the "Page and Index" (not on transcluded pages), but I really like it and find it useful.

There are quite a few opinions here about TOCs. I made the least controversial at your book -- I used a fairly simple wikitable. One thing about using templates on them, is that depending on the template and the number of entries, it can be a real rendering drag or even refuse to make all the pages when transcluding. This would not have happened with this TOC, but you might as well start out right. I was able to drop the {{sc}} templates from each entry by starting the table with {|style="font-variant:small-caps;". That portion of the TOC should render very quickly. Not all can have a style like that, but yours can as every entry is in small-caps.

Tables in general

Tables that end on the scan page but don't end in the book, are a problem here that are managed with {{nopt}}. That template has pretty good instructions about how to include them. The ends are put into the footer and the next page beginnings are put into the header. Using that makes the table work on the proofing page and also it will appear as one big table in the transclusion, when the pages go together.

Finished book viewing, the headers and footers

Proofed books here can be "seen" in several ways. One is in the Main, almost everyone is familiar with that. The other(s) can be accessed from the Index page at the top. It is possible to view the book as the pages it started life with. Hence, the header and footer sections on each page. {{rh}} works very well there and at the bottom of the documentation for that, are others that might suit you better. So, I left the header section on the index page blank. I did put some instructions into the "footer" section, so that when you make new pages, a centered page number should appear.

When there has been too much help

Also, I know for sure that you can revert my changes or SF's changes and not hurt either's feelings or mar any future relationships. I really did mean to just start things so that you could see how they work and take it from there.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 22:47, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi. Many thanks for the help. I have some Wikisource experience from sv.wikisource but am less familiar with the templates and conventions used on en.wikisource so help is always welcome.

The {{rh}} trick for the TOC came from A_Simplified_Grammar_of_the_Swedish_Language which happened to be Septembers featured text. While neat in that you can handle it line by line (rather than a table which must be finished in one sitting) it was also heavy on templates so the table solution seems much neater.

I was not at all aware of the header/footer sections of the Index page. Those are super helpful. Many thanks for that.

I have two follow-up questions:

For the pagelist I have a question around conventions. Right now I see that some of the images and some of the blank pages have been marked as "img", "-" (or as a numbered plate). Should this only be done when the corresponding page is not included in the page numbering (mainly the plate pages)? Whereas images and blank pages which are included in the numbering (even if the pages themselves aren't numbered) should be left as numbered in the pagelist?

For the TOC. Looks like you used {{DJVU page link 2}} here for the first entries and then {{Scan page link}}. Both of these are really cleaver in how they change behaviour based on namespace. The first one however does not seem to allow for adding chapter links. Is it simply the case that that functionality has not yet been added to {{DJVU page link 2}}? I also spotted {{Scan page link 3}} which looks like it should work in both cases (and does not require one to keep track of the offset). Is there a preference around using one over the other?

Thanks again / Lokal Profil (talk) 08:42, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello! Questions:

"Img" vs "Pln" in pagelist: I had intended to only do the first 100 book pages, both in the index and in the pagelist, because for many, the doing is more instructive than seeing the example. So, I left that for you. Then another user did those -- not me and not you. I use the "Pl1", "Pl2", etc. when there is more than one such image in a chapter. This is for linking the illustration list to them as whatever is in the pagelist appears as an anchor in the transclusion. See Alice's_Adventures_in_Wonderland_(Rackham)#xi (the "xi" in that link is an anchor being used) and Page:MU KPB 050 Alice's adventures in Wonderland - by Lewis Carroll.pdf/19 (which uses a different and controversial toc template) which is how the links work with the anchors.

The various scan links: I use "djvu" in the name due to old habit. That template was changed to "scan" link and the "djvu" named templates are redirects to the new templates. It is confusing and I did not help with the confusion. Please accept my apology. {{scan page link 2}} does not require a number for display. It will link to "xii" or "Frontispiece" or "Title" while {{scan page link}} requires a number as it does some math. {{scan page link 3}} is completely new to me today, when you mentioned it -- and it looks very nice as it does one thing within the Page: world and another thing within the Main! This "3" template for certain also will require numbers for the math.

About the featured text that uses {{rh}} in the toc. I feel like I would have not been allowed to use that; but it is a feeling. I am also not certain how a completed text goes from new Index to featured text, either. And, a confession: I did not even look at it. I have seen mass conversions of over-used templates and I have also seen several times when long indexes refuse to render -- and I have made one of those also. I have also had plenty of good help; which is time for me to pass along. About help here, not all of the help has been "good" but most of it. Such a warning would include help from me also. Excessive template calls is almost always a good reason for advice.

Culture here, no pop quiz, not relevant to anything, really: About "Swede". There was a movie that I truly enjoyed "Please Rewind" about the end of movies on video tape. In the movie, a video store suffered a disaster in which all of the cassettes were erased. They then remade the movies with cardboard and tin foil and about 3 actors and called these reversionings "Sweded" when they rented them out, and when they took orders and money for new ones to be created. Great movie, but unfortunate that every time I see "sv" or "Swedish Language", etc. I think of the movie. The whole country deserves my apology, starting with Stric and andersca, my first Swedish friends.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 17:38, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

a beautiful book!

Your book really looks nice! I hope your enjoyment of the process is equal to its beauty.

Personally, I love these star books. Maybe the chapters should be hooked up to wikidata each so we can keep track of these "articles" of a sort? Wikidata has a "described by source" where the chapter on Leo can be used at the data for the constellation, giving all the wiki easy access to it.

You can easily call it done now and well done at that. (Set aside my data mining for a while and enjoy that maybe.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 18:36, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi @RaboKarbakian. Many thanks for your kind words! This was a classic example of a wiki rabbit hole where I'd originally uploaded the scan because I needed one of the images for another project. But I felt that it deserved more than that and so brought it over to Wikisource.

I have really enjoyed working on it both as a low intensity wiki project and to better get to know the ins and outs of en.Wikisource (I've done a book on sv.wikisource before but the two projevts differ greatly!).

I've also enjoyed exploring the Commons/SDC-Wikisource-Wikidata connection and I was actually looking at how I could best connect the chapters with their topics. So I think that, and maybe some SDC enrichment of the illustrations, will be how I wrap this project up :)

And again, many thanks for the support from you and the others. Even as an experienced Wikimedian it is nice to get hints, tips, suggestions and support when getting started on a new Wikimedia project. / Lokal_Profil 19:47, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Something to muse about (for SDC). The best thing I ever did (in my opinion) here was to amass the wealth of articles and mentions of Bodes Law and build a little sub-portal for it at Portal:Astronomy/Bode's Law. Since it was sub-portaled, it can appear on the Portal page via transclusion, but the sub-portal itself can link directly to the wikipedia article, and wikiquotes or wiki-whatever, if it is there. That collection is probably all that will ever be written about that weird little Astronomical unit thing, and yet, it is still a good place to go when determining if a measurement or an idea "is a thing or not". Between this book of yours, the Night Sky Handbook, the Astrology, the Popular Science articles and others, we might get three links for some/many of the constellations, which should make for a nice enough sub-portal. Wikivoyage made it to Mars (at wikipedia) before Wikisource did, a fact that embarrasses me a little.

Wikisource is not as set up to send general information around as it is set up to send literary information around, but it could be.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 20:52, 3 January 2023 (UTC)