User talk:Ineuw/Archives/2021-12-31

Table of contents needs to be on root page

Hi. Please would you be able to move the ToC from a subpage to the root page of An Index of Prohibited Books (1840). For our works to be able to be successfully exported to other digital formats, the ToC needs to be on the root page. We also need to remember that we are not in paper format, and typeset our works for the digital world. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:35, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Finally found and understood your comment about the TOC on the root page. I pasted it on this page but didn't use it in the main namespace. Is it acceptable to use a blank page for the TOC? Never asked before, but did it on previous occasion.— Ineuw (talk) 15:21, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Broken redirect

Hey Ineuw,

The broken redirect at User:Ineuw/common.js/Gadget-NopInserter.js is showing up in maintenance reports, but since it's CSS/JS in User:-space I can't delete it. Can you take care of it? --Xover (talk) 14:15, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Deleted.— Ineuw (talk) 14:50, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Non-standard pagelists causing problems

Hi, I fixed the pagelist for Index:History of Woman Suffrage Volume 5.djvu, which I believe was causing your display problem. I then got curious. I see that from about August 2020 you started using non-standard pagelists. By "non-standard" I mean that numbered pages have been assigned codes that are not the page number. The statements at Help:Index pages#Page are clear on this and have been in place since December 2012. By using a code that is not the page number you are preventing standardised wikilinking to those pages. Remember that what is entered in the pagelist becomes an anchor once transcluded into the mainspace. Please desist from this novel practice. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:06, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing it up. My thoughts on the subject are posted in the related Help page post. — Ineuw (talk) 19:11, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Index:The despatches of Hernando Cortes.djvu

Hi, your deletion of this Index has left all the pages in the Page: namespace orphaned (over 400). Please sort out their deletion. This will complete the process of deleting the Index that you started. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:44, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

@Beeswaxcandle: Hi. Apologize for my scanty knowledge. No idea how to delete them en masse but will gladly do it once I learnt how. — Ineuw (talk) 02:03, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

I usually put a request in at WS:BOTR. But, if your SQL is up to it, then (as an admin) you can use Special:Nuke/Mass delete. Make sure to turn your bot flag on beforehand so that you don't flood Recent Changes (and turn it off again afterwards). Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:52, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

That sounds pretty scary unless you really really know what you're doing. I would suggest turning on "MassDelete" in your Gadget preferences (at the very bottom) and then use Special:MassDelete instead. It lets you paste in a list of pages to delete so you have much better control over what happens. You can make such a list by constructing a link like Special:PrefixIndex/Page:The despatches of Hernando Cortes.djvu/. You'll also have to use a text editor to add "Page:" in front of each page name since MW hides that for some reason.

In any case, I've deleted these pages for you now. --Xover (talk) 09:38, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

@Xover: Thanks for the additional links and the warning. — Ineuw (talk) 10:46, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, I was looking for them. :-) — Ineuw (talk) 10:50, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Hebrew in Champollion

Hi,

Thanks for checking the Hebrew text in the French Wikisource! I have just one question: at the beginning of the text, you replaced ויהי with ויחי , but I actually took that word (ויהי) from the Hebrew Wikisource. I don't know Hebrew at all but I just checked a high-resolution of that book (see image, or source) and it seems to me that the character is ה and not ח . Sorry if I'm wrong. What do you think? Seudo (talk) 06:12, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Seudo: I don't have to think. ויחי is definitely wrong and you are right it should have been ויהי.— Ineuw (talk) 06:54, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll fix it. Seudo (talk) 07:20, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

The History of Slavery and the Slave Trade

You are an administrator here and expected to lead, and to understand the system that has been reach by consensus, and to lead on its use. I have explained that works such as this will not produce suitable downloadable copy unless the ToC is on the root page of the work. Would you please amend the work so it complies with the standard that the community has set with the contents on the root page. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:00, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Plus for the author for the work, can you please provide the source for "W. O. Blake" => "William O. Blake" as that will hunt in my search to provide fuller information about the author, and to get that data into Wikidata. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:04, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

I didn't forget, except "root page" is ambiguous, and if you want me to do it correctly, please clarify what you mean by "root" and point me to an example, because all my previous works merited no criticism. Is this download issue recent?

As for the author page, I saved it as "under construction", for being incomplete. The source of the information is the US Library of Congress, which seems to be the source of his birth & death dates in other online discussions. But, I didn't know how to specify it, and needed additional time to study various author pages.— Ineuw (talk) 10:12, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

No, the issue with the root page is not new. We have been hammering on about it in WS:S more recently as we have been improving downloads. Root page is not ambiguous, and it definitely isn't a subpage, which also isn't ambiguous. See mw:Help:Moving a page and mw:Help:Magic words#Page names. I fixed the previous work that I mentioned, and probably others over time. Did you look at An Index of Prohibited Books (1840) and see what I did on the root page? It seemed reasonably overt what was happening. To why no one fixed what you are doing is that as an administrator people expect you to know what is going on and most of us don't double-check a fellow administrator's work. @Inductiveload: do we have good clarity in the help: and transclusion pages on this, we may need to review if admins are missing it.

The long held practice used by some of us is for snippets of information about an author to be recorded on the author talk page. Links or rough copy and pastes of the information are useful so that we can share in that understanding rather than having it unsupported in source. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:53, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

TOCs on the root page are required for export. This is not quite true, there are ways to indirect the metadata, but that adds maintenance overhead and is hardly ever a good idea. Multi-level TOCs are possible: the root page needs a list of links to subpages, and any links on the subpages, which must be inside a container marked ws-summary, will be used too. {{AuxTOC}} and {{TOC begin}} apply this class automatically. If you need to manually wrap a TOC, {{export TOC}} is for you, and if you want the TOC to be invisible but still read by the exporter, {{hidden export TOC}} (this is pretty rare and kind of a last ditch thing).

There are details at Help:Preparing_for_export#Listing_pages_for_export, which I just expanded a little. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 08:44, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

A Prisoner of the Khaleefa would have been a far better example. I am assuming that it's OK to have the Contents' pages exist twice? Does this mean that all "main namespace" root pages are to be modified as well? Any mention about the root page of multi-volume works? — Ineuw (talk) 12:38, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Helpme?

Was the addition of the {{helpme}} template here a mistake or are you actually looking for help with something? Xover (talk) 05:59, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Xover: No, :-) it wasn't a mistake, I don't have experience in properly formatting the author's page. Aside from the fact that info is unavailable. I knew of no other author page to compare to and learn.— Ineuw (talk) 06:38, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

P.S: Pls leave it for later. I must end today's session.— Ineuw (talk) 06:38, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Ok. The template isn't designed to be used in mainspace so I have moved it to the talk page. If you add some details about what you'd like help with I'd be happy to assist (and I know Billinghurst patrols new author pages too). Xover (talk) 07:57, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Xover:Much thanks for the reminder about the template use. Don't remember ever using it here on WS, and a few times in WP or the Commons. It was an act of desperation because I found no comparable records to learn from. Limited my search to the LOC which was the source of the other info I found. I knew that others have a more in-depth knowledge of adding the info, I pasted whatever I thought was relevant, helpful and on the wrong page. Hey, at least we got a response.— Ineuw (talk) 21:38, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Author data

Hi. If you don't know author data, please don't add junk data, it just stuffs up categorisation for where unknowns should be. Leaving it empty is perfectly fine. Plus all the metadata will be delivered from Wikidata when it is known, so having junk overrides isn't helpful from that perspective either. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:03, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Billinghurst:, This goes contrary to your previous comments to me about the author's page, in one of your previous posts.

This is a web site based on the contributions of volunteers, about whom your stated maxim was, "any contribution is welcome". So, the question is, do you want to be a janitor, (a concierge where I come from), and slam the door in the face of others every time things don't go your way, or be respected as a valuable contributor to Wikimedia in general and Wikisource in particular?

If I lag in technology, that should be no surprise, since there is an ocean of change from the computing world I knew, and from the time I joined Wikisource.

I came to this site for the love of the written word, and not be a programmer. Nominated myself for adminship for the sole purpose of being able to delete errors I created, and help some users with features that I managed to learn sufficiently to be able to explain. There is record of my question about the deletion of self-created pages in the archive, going back to 2009-2010.

But, if it's rank and position is what you value, I will be happy to resign my commission as an administrator, accept exile to a warm place where the sun does shine, as long as it doesn't entail a Wikisource ceremony in which my user page is defaced, and my ceremonial keyboard is snapped in half. Just ask.

Your ever increasing impatience and aggressive stance with the community is displayed in your posts, and I publicly ask you to take a step back and get some rest.

Your comment here is unnecessary, unhelpful and aggressive. Your contribution to this conversation is unwelcome.

PS: Please do not delete this message, per your usual habit. — Ineuw (talk) 22:00, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey what? I will take reasonable criticism of my personal approach, and it is noted. However, as another adult in this room, you need to be taking responsibilities too. There was zero aggression in my short note, and the expression "junk data" has no intention of being aggressive, just descriptive of its use in the field.

• You put the text "unknown" in author date fields.

  Can you please point to me where our guidance says to do that?

  Can you point to where I said to do that?

  What does our guidance say?

  How is that addition in that form helpful?

• The use of non-standard additions is problematic. It means that things do not categorise properly. This categorisation has been in place for years, and it is not mine. Is it your wish to be adding problematic data to our headers? Is it your wish to be causing unnecessary maintenance?

• The expression "unknown" about a date of birth when used on an author page should not be based on personal knowledge. If you don't know a date just leave it empty. If you want to add commentary, please add it to the talk page. The broad addition of the word "unknown" has connotations and should be avoided in spaces like ours.

• We have been using Wikidata for the provision of numbers of data fields for over five years. What more do we need to do for you to bring you up to speed on how the site works and supplies data, and why we are using it?

As a long term administrator here, you are meant to be a proponent of the style (per WS:Adminship), and you should be proficient in the use of our major templates, especially our header templates like author. If you put in wrong data or don't follow the style, then apart from the errors that introduces, it also gives any other person the opportunity for others to say, "but that is how they do it and they are an administrator".

I have expressed no requirement to do anything at Wikidata, nor any advanced knowledge of computers or computer systems or technology. I am asking you to follow the guidance, the styles, and not make problematic additions. As a long term user and administrator, I am hoping that you can progress, especially as the site evolves.

My advice will not be contradictory to previous advice. My advice is consistent. Though I will note that my advice will evolve as the site evolves.

So, how else are we going to keep you up to date? Tell us/me which is the way that this should happen. I am ONLY here talking to you about it as it is not right. If it was right I would be off doing other things. We all have responsibilities here.

P.S. Where do I delete messages? I don't. I have ZERO deletions on this page in the last 500 edits. Accusations like that are less than helpful, and rather inflammatory. And for what it is worth

• My deletion log last 1000
• My edits in user_talk ns last 1000 to April last year.

Where is the problem? And if I undertake problematic any deletions or reversions, then please talk to me at the time, not throw it at me like this. I am never adverse to discussin such issues. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:32, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Kind request for white list

Respected Admin,

I am the owner of my website FreakToFit. Few days before I was citing few articles for information in your wikipedia site as there was less information. But on one day itself I put so much citation that you thought I was trying to promote my content. But its not the truth. I have a fitness and health website which is fully knowledge base and doesn't contains any promotional material. When I was surfing through few of the articles on your panel I saw few lacks of information, thereby I started to putting the info and doing citation. But since it was over doing you have thought I have misusing the panel and thereby promotion.

But its not that sir. I have enclosed a screenshot of my website so that you can have a look. My request to you sir it will be extremely grateful if you please unblock my page freaktofit. Looking for a positive response Uttamwiki23 (talk) 11:49, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Forum shopping, replied at User talk:Languageseeker#Kind request for white list. 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 (𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 11:56, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

morning chats includes an apology

I started messing with PSM, then I thought I should look to see whose project it is, then I talked to a very simple bot operator, then I figured out it was your project, then I lurked in embarrassment.

At least, if I remember right, I was respectful. Deeply respectful, as I am of the PSM collection and which I am not of just anything. I moved the indexes to an unused page so that they could be transcluded both in the Volume namespace and in the Issue namespace so that the issues could have wikidata and the issues can be downloaded individually for ereaders.

fr.ws has the same problem with their original version of Arabian Nights. Giving the Volume a data means giving one of the stories the whole volume data item. (putting it to words is awkward)

The PSM collection is a beautiful beautiful thing. I think I helped rather than harmed. I think I should have gone about it differently. And then, realizing that, I should have done the preceding differently. However, being a lurker has caused a great fondness in me for you. You seem to have a great deal of class.

So, in summary: sorry, sorry, very sorry, sorry, my very bad. What, where and why. Those darn French. My deepest respect.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 12:48, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

You did the right thing and I thank you. So, "keep on trucking". The table of contents must be on the main page. It took me awhile to recall (started PSM in October 2009) that the table of contents was not part of the text, but was built chapter by chapter. All I am doing now is removing the dead links from the Index: namespace.— Ineuw (talk) 17:16, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

2nd opinion on color

Hola! :) I'm uploading some color wood-block prints and thought of you when I decided to keep the background, instead of hacking out some other other extraction of the object. An other opinion on File:The headswoman - color plate facing page 32.jpg and so on is welcome. Cygnis insignis (talk) 17:55, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for asking. I would keep it as is. It's very nice as it is.— Ineuw (talk) 19:17, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

A drunken walk visits all points (eventually)

I'm currently interested in how people do TOCs and happened to see your edits to Page:Africa by Élisée Reclus, Volume 1.djvu/11. Since I'm also interested in {{table style}} - and having accidently precipitated Xover's nice rewrite - I'm looking how people use that. And having found a couple aliases missed...

I was thus mystified to see "p3.5" in your edits. Did you mean one of either "pl3.5" or "pr3.5"? Or is something still missing? Shenme (talk) 00:54, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

@Shenme: Don't be mystified, and thanks. It was a typo.— Ineuw (talk) 07:24, 29 September 2021 (UTC)