VGPaleontologist

Welcome to Wikisource

Hello, VGPaleontologist, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for joining the project. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• Help pages, especially for proofreading
• Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource
• Style guide
• Inclusion policy
• Wikisource:For Wikipedians

You may be interested in participating in

• Proofread of the Month
• Monthly Challenge
• Requested texts

Add the code {{active projects}}, {{PotM}} or {{Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your user page and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either

• Wikisource:Scriptorium; or
• Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use! In discussions, please "sign" your comments using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username if you're logged in (or IP address if you are not) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click edit) and place {{helpme}} before your question.

Again, welcome! — billinghurst sDrewth 02:46, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Indexes

Please do not create indexes for works you do not intend to proofread, thank you. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 02:48, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

• VGPaleontologist: Please stop creating such indexes and not-proofread pages, thank you. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 02:55, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

  I am sorry, I will stop creating indexes I do not plan to proofread. VGPaleontologist (talk) 22:35, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Use of header

Hi. Please see special:diff/13136997 for how we would typically do the subpage of a work.

We use relative links; no requirement application of a licence; no use of year. Where something applies for the root level of the work, it is presumed to flow down through the work, so we avoid repeating them. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! That saves us both lot of time. VGPaleontologist (talk) 03:17, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Help:Editing#Links for information about relative links. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:28, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I tried to use your way, but whenever I tried to use it, it simply didn't work. Next time I do it, I'll use the instructions provided, but that's probably just because I don't understand it.

I'll keep trying to get it to work. VGPaleontologist (talk) 02:30, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Proofreading notes

Hi, thanks for your work proofreading Index:Popular Tales and Romances of the Northern Nations (Volume 3).djvu :) Just a few notes:

• {{peh}} keeps the hyphen when transcluded into mainspace, so should only be used when a word that would normally be hyphenated (e.g. "well-hyphenated") is split over two pages. For words that would be joined back together without a hyphen, then just use a normal hyphen at the end of the page, without {{peh}}. See H:HYPHEN for more info.
• {{gap}} shouldn't be used to indent the start of new paragraphs. This indentation is just the way publishers marked new paragraphs, and our aim is to let the reader choose how to display paragraphs if they want to (i.e. they could decide to display paragraphs with a vertical space between them, or with any amount of initial indentation), while adding {{gap}} forces a gap to appear at the start of each paragraph. See WS:SG#Formatting #5 and Help:Beginner's guide to typography#Paragraphs and sentences for more about this.
• If a paragraph ends at the end of a page, adding {{nop}} makes sure that the paragraph isn't merged with the next page's first paragraph when transcluded.
• If a book has already been started, please try to keep the formatting as close to the rest of the book as possible (e.g. keeping the same type of quotation marks and apostrophes – “either like this” or "like this" [see WS:SG#Formatting #7], chapter headers, etc.), so that when it's completed the formatting is consistent across the book.

--Yodin^T 11:48, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! VGPaleontologist (talk) 13:59, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Empty parameters are better

Hi. Please do not poke question marks into {{author}} fields where you don't know the data, it doesn't add value and requires editing to remove it when data is known, or the author page is linked at Wikidata. Thanks. Leaving them empty is fine. In general in the whole Wikimedia hierarchy it is my opinion that leaving fields empty is better than forcing "unknown" type data. Whole range of reasons for my opinion that I will elucidate, beyond my recommendation to not do it. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:35, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

👍VGPaleontologist (talk) 02:44, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

New texts

Hi ! Red links for authors aren't wanted in the new texts. Do you think it better to link to the Department of Defense portal, or have no link there ? -- Beardo (talk) 19:41, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

I believe we should create a redirect from the current redlink to the DoD portal, which may solve problems concerning the possible creation of a portal for the Immigrant and Employee Rights Section. VGPaleontologist (talk) 19:43, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

OK. That works. -- Beardo (talk) 20:14, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Emma

The most recent addition to New texts was mentioned in a work you transcribed, called "Letter on Left-Wing Extremism to the Secretary of Defense". The letter said the film "describes marching in left-wing social protests as “defending freedom,” depicts “two moms” raising a child, features a lesbian wedding, and refers to the subject of the video’s service to this country as “shattering stereotypes.”" It also incorrectly stated that the film was called "The Calling" when in fact that's the name of the film series, not the film itself.

Now readers of the letter have access to the full context. Hope you enjoy. PseudoSkull (talk) 01:33, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I was kind of confused regarding the topic of the letter myself while transcribing. VGPaleontologist (talk) 01:35, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

How to Become President of the United States

Just wanted to inquire to see if you were finished with this film transcription draft, or were you intending on reviewing it later first? I can go ahead and process it into the other namespaces if it's ready. For future reference, (and I don't fault you for not knowing this because I forgot to put instructions on the page), the link should be moved to the "Ready to process" section when it's done. PseudoSkull (talk) 03:42, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I am done with it. Thank you for your inquiry. VGPaleontologist (talk) 15:13, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for undergoing this cool film project. A couple of notes on film transcription for future reference:

1. The template {{ft/i}} is only for in-scene text, such as if a sign or book cover appears in the film itself. Most of what was inputted can be {{ft/s}}, which is for textual narrative text. And, for pages like 14, which has dialogue, you use {{ft/d}}. See Help:Film for more info.
2. The <br /> tag is not usually needed for when there are line breaks in on-screen text, in a very similar vein to how they aren't needed for every line break in a book. They're not semantically applicable; they were only placed in the film itself because of a lack of space to display the text in one line, so for technical reasons.

Thanks, and happy editing! PseudoSkull (talk) 17:05, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks again. That was my first attempt at it, and I hope to transcribe better in the future. However, if you do like this particular film, I took it from the YouTube account of the web portal of the United States Federal Government. Many federal agencies' YouTube videos are also PD-USGov if you wish to transcribe them. VGPaleontologist (talk) 17:11, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

How to Become President of the United States — The film, and a related poster, have been transcluded. PseudoSkull (talk) 18:50, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Please replace long s with s

Hi. The community made the decision a long time ago that we were not going to reproduce the the long s character and we would instead use a normal s. The compromise is that where users which to see that still in the Page: namespace that they can use {{long s}} though that only reproduces in the long form in that namespace. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:23, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Similarly, we also just do a standard "ct" rather than try and reproduce the typographical of the time. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:25, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Alright, I'll do that. VGPaleontologist (talk) 22:26, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I have fixed up those in the article using regex tool, so think that aspect is cleared. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:32, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh, thank you! I was going to use Ctrl+f, but when I entered the long s it also highlighted the regular S's, so that saves me a lot of pain. VGPaleontologist (talk) 22:34, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Transcluding a jpg

Hi, I know they are a beast, though we prefer that the <pages> tag is used rather than using {{Page}}. I converted its use which you can see at special:diff/13305910. Information for this is at mulWS => mul:Wikisource:ProofreadPage — billinghurst sDrewth 05:57, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Please do not red wikilink Translation: ns works from author pages

Hi. Please do not add so many red wikilinks to pages like Author:Tadeusz Cieślewski. Happy to add the works as that is accurate, however, there is no likelihood that these are going tpo be translated by volunteers, so please just add them as text. Easy enough to convert them to active links if by miracles someone does a translation.

Also I would encourage you to add {{authority control}} to author pages, after the copyright statement, per the guidance at Wikisource:Author pages. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:58, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Alright, can do. One more thing, would you still like for me to provide a source (scanned file/external link/Commons category) after their works? VGPaleontologist (talk) 14:04, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

The practice has been to use {{ext scan link}} and {{small scan link}} as indicators as they have predominantly been the two we have. Your Commons examples seems reasonable if the files exist. I am agnostic on the practice as it is never going to be me in that space. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:47, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't know if others agree with me, but I don't think that you should have redlinks with {{ssl}} - better to use {{esl}} or {{IA small link}} - there's no guarantee that someone will create a page of the name that you have assumed. @Billinghurst - what do you think ? -- Beardo (talk) 17:17, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

 Comment I definitely will say that I don't necessarily like that we have such a sheer volume of substantially empty Index pages. I feel like to call something a "transcription project" would be to imply that it's being actively worked on, or at least that it's been worked on at all. And most of our Index pages barely have any content. Uploading massive amounts of PDFs is great, but dumping Index pages for every one of them seems like the wrong approach. Really an Index page is just a representation of data (a lot of which really ought to be migrated from Wikidata anyway, because most of what's on Index pages is really just a duplicate of what's already on WD, as well as manually duplicated in several other places as well...). PseudoSkull (talk) 17:24, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

If the corresponding File: ns page is present, then I am not about to complain that it is a redlink, as it is a relatively easy to create them from there. If there is no file present, then no. To also note SSL targets have not been the target for abuse, or other problematic edits, so it is a more controlled space. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:50, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Wary with templates with red links galore

Hi. With things like Template:United States Executive Branch Navbox and all the red links that where contained, can I offer a note of experience. The blithering idiots, the vandals, and the otherwise clueless can see that as an invitation to participate in a way that few in the community would find complying with the desire style, and I am sure that you know the type. [One of the reasons that I hesitate to over redlink on author pages and the like.]

What I have done in this case is created Template:iflink which will test whether the target page exists, and if it does it will display the link. If it does not exist, it will just show the corresponding text. When we create the corresponding portal at the target link, then the template should update with an active link. It is an expensive template, so only really suited for those more static (cached) pages like that navbox. 11:54, 17 July 2023 (UTC) — billinghurst sDrewth 11:54, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

I have not seen that template used before, but it does seem useful. And, considering I do much more transcribing than any sort of interpersonal moderation, I don't know "the type." However, being one very recently myself, I have found that providing the transcription link is often a directory enough to divert such people's first attention away from creating a new page and towards the proper index, where they can provide in a more beneficial manner. However, since you have much more experience in the field, I will take your advice. VGPaleontologist (talk) 14:04, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

I created it specifically for the job, as typically we don't do such redlinking, though can see the value for the navbox that you developed. You will note my specific direction to note the cases. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:32, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

We don't indent paragraphs

Hi. We don't indent our paragraphs in our style per WS:Style guide. The community reached that consensus to present a standard form, not replicate the typographical of a work. There may be the rare occasion where there is a specific reason to do so, however, it would need to be reasoned, not the norm. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:30, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

That's what I have been doing. See User talk:VGPaleontologist#Proofreading notes. Which work exactly did you see this in? VGPaleontologist (talk) 15:20, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Don't remember, you would need to look at where I was editing at the time. If you need to get my attention, it is best to {{ping}} me. I don't tend to keep many user_talk pages on my watchlist. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:31, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Author pages

Hi. I don't know if you were aware - I only learned this recently - when we create a new page for an author, we are supposed to add that author to the alphabetical listing of authors, that is linked in the header. -- Beardo (talk) 10:58, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh. Well, good to know. Thank you for telling me. VGPaleontologist (talk) 19:54, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

It is not a requirement, people can do so if they so wish. We really should get that process automated, now that WD is suitably date populated, unlike earlier years. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:29, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

@Billinghurst - though Help:Author_pages#Author_index does not indicate that it is optional. -- Beardo (talk) 16:52, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

I never liked that we had such lists at all. This seems similar to the Indexes that used to be on the English Wiktionary, which recently got deleted per a vote they had. This is a problem we could pretty easily solve with some server-side mechanic, and to update it with bots or keep up with it manually is a waste of energy. So I wouldn't feel too much pressure to update these tbh. PseudoSkull (talk) 17:32, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

@PseudoSkull - then surely the help pages that mention those should be amended accordingly ? -- Beardo (talk) 18:01, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Instruction softened at help page. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:54, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

former / was and other dating terms

Hi. We try to avoid use words with regard to contemporaneity, like "is", "was", "former", "current". If they served for a known period of time then we can indicate that within reason, though people can often see such times at the WP article. The reason being is that so many author pages are not updated suitably, so we try not to introduce that issue in the first place. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:28, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

transclusion

Hi. We wish to use <pages /> transclusion rather than {{Page:...}} approach, as it then properly utilises the aspects of ProofreadPage extension and associated styles. I understand that it is a little more difficult with image pages, and you can see how I did it at special:diff/13409670 for the single page. [Noting that tag:pages is just the raw form of the pages tag]. If you have any question, WS:S will be able to provide the answers. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:25, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Author:Robert Cardillo

I see that you added this author. Are you aware of any works by him that can be hosted on Wikisource ? -- Beardo (talk) 17:48, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

I'll add this. VGPaleontologist (talk) 18:22, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Author:Cassandra D. Foursha-Stevenson

And with this, you have red-linked an article. But that seems to come from here - https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.740920/full which says "© 2023 Frontiers Media S.A. All rights reserved" - have you something to indicate that it is released so that it can be hosted on wikisource ? -- Beardo (talk) 18:42, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Please see the PubMed page on this, in which it states "This is an open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License (CC BY). The use, distribution or reproduction in other forums is permitted, provided the original author(s) and the copyright owner(s) are credited and that the original publication in this journal is cited, in accordance with accepted academic practice. No use, distribution or reproduction is permitted which does not comply with these terms." For further reference, PubMed is where I find scientific articles.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8555711/ VGPaleontologist (talk) 19:33, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Also, Frontiers in Psychology originally published it under a CC-BY license on Oct 15, 2021, (according to PubMed Central) when it was originally published. VGPaleontologist (talk) 19:40, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

OK - sorry - I see now that is included in the small print there. -- Beardo (talk) 22:19, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

I do encourage you to keep searching for possible copyright violations, however. Some who are new to the uploading process may confuse PubMed's "Open Access" category with Creative Commons, or may upload CC-BY-4.0-Non-Commercial articles when they thought they were CC-BY-4.0.

Anyways, thanks for checking! VGPaleontologist (talk) 22:57, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

File and page names

Hi. Having just spent an ungodly amount of time modifying my tools to special-case Index:A Failure to Communicate? How Public Messaging Has Strained the COVID-19 Response in the United States.pdf, a request / recommendation for the future:

Certain characters have special meanings in URLs, HTML, etc., and when those ares in file or page names all sorts of weirdness happens and is a real pain to work around. In the case of the above linked work, the question mark is the issue. In URLs (web page addresses) it separates the host name and file path from the parameters to the application, so lots of tools will split the URL at the point the question mark appears. In general it is a good idea to avoid special characters in file and wikipage names, both for this reason and because special characters are confusing for humans to type in. These characters can of course appear just fine in the content of pages (e.g. on title pages and so on), just not in page names. The technically problematic characters that commonly crop up are question mark (?), ampersand (&), equals sign (=), and forward slash (/), and double and single quotation marks ("'). The ones that cause problems for humans typing are pretty much all non-ASCII characters (curly quotes, accented characters, ligatures, etc.).

For the file referenced above, for example, I would have just dropped the question mark from file and page names.

In fact, for file and wikipage names it is often better to be briefer and elide part of the full title, because it makes it easier for humans to work with in many contexts. If I had uploaded that file I would have probably gone with File:A Failure to Communicate (2021).pdf, dropping the subtitle/tag-line entirely but adding the year (since with shorter titles it is more likely to clash with other works with the same short title). Titles (and especially subtitles) can be arbitrarily long, so trying to be faithful to them leads to file and page names like THE Tragicall Historie of HAMLET Prince of Denmarke, By William Shake-speare. As it hath beene diuerse times acted by his Highnesse ser­uants in the Cittie of London: as also in the two V­niuersities of Cambridge and Oxford, and else‐where. Xover (talk) 10:53, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, usually I do that, I just didn’t think the question mark would cause that big a problem. Will keep in mind for future uploads. VGPaleontologist (talk) 15:10, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

On the Compendium

Thank you for uploading the most recent revision of the third edition. If you are going to work on it, I would recommend starting from the first revision (3d ed.). This is because some of the chapters haven’t changed between revisions, so we can just copy over the duplicated chapters from the earlier revisions. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 19:18, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Authors of works in languages other than English

With authors such as Author:A. Bogdanoff, Author:Arthur José da Silva, Author:Hubert Janitschek, Author:Konrad Sehrwald, Author:Marek Krajewski, and Author:Theodor Frimmel von Traisenau - are you aware of English translations of their works ?

Do you know if their works are in the wikisource for their respective languages ? -- Beardo (talk) 12:51, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Also Author:Bernhard von Breydenbach ? -- Beardo (talk) 03:12, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Index:Forensic Entomology - The Use of Insects in the Investigation of Homicide and Untimely Death.pdf

For this index, are you sure about The Prosecutor being a government publication? The NDAA does not seem to be an instrumentality of the U.S. government. Also, are you going to actually proofread any of the indexes you upload? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 17:37, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

I proofread some, but recently I haven't really had the time lately. Also, I might have misidentified the copyright status of that work. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. VGPaleontologist (talk) 17:58, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

(You'd have to have a special kind of stomach to want to do forensic entomology day in and day out, let me tell ya.) SnowyCinema (talk) 02:25, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Podcasts

If you'd like to work on podcasts in the future, (assuming this one gets kept), may I ask that we have a talk about it in the context of Wikisource:WikiProject Film? It's my opinion that a YouTube video should count as a film, such as in the case of Me at the zoo (2005). I'm (leaning) okay with keeping podcasts if they're notable enough, although I recognize that going down this rabbit-hole might be difficult for Wikisource. It's a gray area even in my mind.

Remember the draft system? PseudoSkull (talk) 02:22, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I do remember, however heavy modification would have to made to the original source to make it suitable for keeping at Commons, given the nature of the reuse of material featured in the video. That's why I thought it best to simply transcribe what parts of it would not be in violation of Wikisource's policies. VGPaleontologist (talk) 17:46, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Translation:Danish and Norwegian Reading Pieces

I see that you created this page last June. It is currently calling up an index which does not exist. Did it ever ? Were you planning to do the translation ? -- Beardo (talk) 01:40, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Just to note, the text is not yet proofread on svWS so it is not yet eligible for translation on enWS. In other words, creating Translation:Danish and Norwegian Reading Pieces is premature until s:sv:Index:Danska och norska läsestycken.djvu is fully proofread (and Index:Danska och norska läsestycken.djvu has been created). Xover (talk) 10:45, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

I see that the index page was deleted a few weeks ago. I will mark this page for speedy deletion for now. -- Beardo (talk) 03:41, 26 January 2024 (UTC)