User talk:John Vandenberg/Archive/2008-1

Active discussions


I changed the header on Catullus 51 to reflect that it is a Wikisource translation. I translated it myself, and this translation is not published anywhere else but my blog. Belial 03:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again for the help. I'll be working on it. Belial 17:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


Sure, i'll swap them out. And why did you replace my citation with a "This page does not provide license information and may be nominated for deletion." template? Now that I think about it I forgot to put a <references /> at the bottom, will that suit your needs? [1] --Henry W. Schmitt 06:15, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

The author is the Government of the Republic of Kiribati. It was written for Kiribati's independence from Britain in 1979 and as the website says, modified in '80. I assumed all constitutions were in the public domain. I searched websites and came up with nothing regarding the matter.--Henry W. Schmitt 06:41, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps you are not familiar with Kiribati. The only crop is coconut. Everybody lives in thatch houses. The country's 33 small atolls are dispersed over millions of square kilometers of ocean and was recently named the world's most remote location by a group of experts on the subject. The literacy rate is above 90% and crime among the nation's 100,000 residents is almost non-existent. The country's sole ISP is Coconut Wireless, which in turn is fed from a satellite dish. Internet access is only available on Tarawa, the nation's capital and housing nearly half the population, the most populated island. The GDP is less than USD1000: A hammock, fish and coconuts come very cheaply in Kiribati. Now, back to copyright law. The Internet is expensive and slow. A ship comes every few months to drop off supplies. If a document of this type is not free, nothing is free. --Henry W. Schmitt 12:00, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


Hi, I tried a few moments ago to create an account on Wikipedia. I wanted the same name: Cowardly Lion. However, when I pressed submit, I got a message saying that the name was too similar to w:User:Cowardlylion. (I notice that that account has made only a handful of edits, all nearly a year ago.) It said that an administrator could create the account for me. Would you be able to create an account at English Wikipedia in the name Cowardly Lion, and then email the password to me? Thanks. Cowardly Lion 00:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I've emailed you my email address through the link on this page. In case you don't normally create accounts for other users, the page I found from following the links when my own attempt failed is here. Thanks. Cowardly Lion 01:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Everything is working fine. Cowardly Lion 11:40, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


Hi, on that page it says to consider making further improvements, e.g. Replace "header2" with "header". Did you mean Replace "header" with "header2"? Cowardly Lion 00:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for picking that up! John Vandenberg 01:05, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Holy QuranEdit

Thank you for your message. I too will only stick to errors that are obvious grammatical and orthographic errors. I shall refrain from changing anything else. For example. In Surah Al-Meada, Ayaa 092:

[...] if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger.s duty to proclaim (the message)

I am certain that this is meant to be "Messenger's duty". Therefore I shall make this correction and others similar to it. Please note as well that this error repeats itself in Ayaa 099.

Like you, I also feel that this version of the Quran hasn't been thoroughly proofread. Thank you for the feedback :)

--Uchohan 00:58, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Your point is well taken, I wish I had known about these other editions of the Holy Quran available on wikisource earlier! :) --Uchohan 05:22, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-upEdit

Thanks for letting me know about the possible copyright issue with the Foundation Stone text; I have replaced the translation with one explicitly released by the translator as open-use (and have checked back with him to ensure he is happy to see it identified as such here). Hgilbert 20:09, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Years of fearEdit

Hi, I presume Years of fear has to be deleted. I've left a note on the creator's talk page. Thanks. Cowardly Lion 02:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Sections and ReferencesEdit

It appears that the "sections" trick does not work with the "references" magic word. See Polycarp's letter to the Philippians (Roberts-Donaldson translation) (from Ante-Nicene Fathers/Volume I/Polycarp). Any ideas on what I should do? Quadell 03:58, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


I notified User:Britney-Boy at his Wikipedia page that I would be migrating his Critique of Judgment page in about two weeks. At that time I will present my plan according my ideas and his comments (if any) on how to migrate and do the subpages.

Thanks, 06:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

slow downEdit

You have raised a discussion on WS:S about use of {{header}}. Please wait for input from others before taking your own advice and making changes to works uploaded by others. Thank you, John Vandenberg 01:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, sorry. I'll wait. —Remember the dot (talk) 01:43, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Your offer of assistanceEdit

My apologies for the late reply, I've been pretty busy on other projects and off-Wiki. Regarding your comment and offer of assistance, I've replied on my talk page. Cheers, Anthøny 23:50, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

JPS 1917Edit


I posted a bit of info on the status of the 1917 JPS translation on WS:COPYVIO#JPS 1917. Short summary: the etext is copyrighted, and some additions have been made; hope this helps. Hoshie 11:20, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

A few questionsEdit

Hi, there are a couple of things I've wondered about from recent changes in the last few days, and I'd like an administrator to have a look.

I suspect that Limbo (Brathwaite poem) is a copyright violation, since Brathwaite was born in 1930, and is still alive. I left a note for the person who added it, but he doesn't seem to be at Wikisource very much, so may not have seen it.

I'm sure we need verification that To Poesy : A Rhapsody has been released into the public domain. I've left a note for the person who added {{PD-release}}.

How long should Rambles in Germany and Italy be allowed to stand as a coming soon page? I occasionally create headers for individual chapters before I add the text, but in such cases, I add the text a few minutes later, not days later. It's by Author:Mary Shelley, and I suppose I could add the text myself, if the anon doesn't come back and if I find it on some website, but it's not high on my list of priorities.

Thanks. Cowardly Lion 17:14, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Limbo (Brathwaite poem) can be nominated for deletion using {{delete}}.
To Poesy : A Rhapsody should be put on {{copyvio}}.
"Rambles in Germany and Italy" could have been tagged with {{no text}}, but I've deleted it as there is nothing to loose. On one or two occasions, I have added the text myself, but only if I already have it at my finger tips. John Vandenberg 10:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I've added the {{delete}} and {{copyvio}} templates, and have also made entries at WS:DEL and WS:COPYVIO. It's all getting easier now. Cowardly Lion 03:56, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


One day remaining, and I haven't seen any of that sexy Jayvdbness on the Sheet Music collection of WS!</aghast> Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Wikisource:Sheet music 21:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

10 of the Woody Guthrie songs :P I'm not sure I can drive Lilypond (I tried); my knowledge of reading/writing music is inadequate at present. John Vandenberg 10:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Clár Oibre PoblacánaigheEdit

I guess this is an okay solution too, but technically it hasn't been moved to oldwikisource, since it's been there for more than two years longer than it's been here! Angr/Talk 18:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)


HI thanks for your message. I left some questions on the community portal page, mainly about how to organise an author's works. I am also involved with parallel translations, which does present some formatting difficulties. Thanks Ockham 08:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your message on parallel translations and especially on the clever way of pulling together different languages. I'll take a look at this - certainly needs fixing re the formatting, but should be soluble in time. Ockham 13:34, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: WelcomeEdit

Wow that was fast! I'm actually User:Graham87 on the English Wikipedia. I've made a couple of small edits here. I'm blind and use a text-to-speech program, as it says on my Wikipedia user page. Therefore I can't read the sign-up kaptchas - I don't have any sighted assistance at the moment so I can't create an account now. I might do so later, to keep all my contribs under one static name like I have at Wikibooks and Meta. 12:35, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Bonk* I should learn to read timestamps properly. :-) I didn't notice the new messages banner until now - I was navigating the site quickly by headings. Thanks for the welcome anyway. 12:40, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
And here's my account. Graham87 14:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the links. I'd probably be most interested in proofreading and maintenance here ... it's mostly what I do on Wikipedia. Graham87 03:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Voting seasonEdit

Thanks again for the nom; I've been appointed. I shall endeavour to make myself useful. Hesperian 22:34, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


Thanks! I'm relatively new here (though I've been on Wikipedia for a while) so it's good to hear that I'm doing the right thing. Mr. Absurd 04:33, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


Reply on my page.Ockham 14:46, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi thanks for the note about the Brendan Rau. I checked on the Regenborn site (this hosts amateur translations of Catullus, some of which are v. bad) and there is a strong similarity between the current 64 and the one there (haven't gone through line by line). Presumably since the person uploading was the original author, they have to say this? Ockham 15:48, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Constitution Act 1867Edit

Tried to ping you on IRC, no response, so I'm here. Sorry to be all noobish, but am I able/allowed to copy paste (from, and then format where necessary? Giggy\talk 03:07, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Bluelink now :) Giggy\talk 04:22, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Script updateEdit

Hello Jayvdb. I updated a script in your JavaScript file to fix a problem with new restrictions in MediaWiki. Unfortunately, another MediaWiki change has temporarily broken refreshing; if you want to use it after it breaks, you'll need to try one of these options:

  • Wait a few days or weeks; the server and browser caches will eventually time out.
  • Repeatedly hard-refresh your browser while viewing an edit page on Wikisource.
  • In your preferences under the "Misc" section, add a check mark next to "disable page caching". Next, view the raw JavaScript code, and hard-refresh your browser. You might want to re-enable page caching after that to avoid slow page loading times.

If you're curious, developers recently restricted the use of the URL parameter "&action=raw" to the primary script access point— this means that it can no longer be used with simplified URLs. —{admin} Pathoschild 05:06:23, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


Thanks. Karabinier 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Considerable changes madeEdit

I have changed this here. More literal translation, changed the order to Latin first, then English, and split the poem up into chunks so that we can edit small parts of it (I think just is more server-friendly, but not an IT expert). Have left some links on my home page to various English translations so you can verify the changes. Ockham 12:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Splitting the page into small chunks doesnt help the server, and I think it also causes usability problems. For example, in the old edition, it is possible to "select and copy" the text of the English edition. Due to the separate table cells in the new edition, that is no longer possible. John Vandenberg 22:53, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Well I'll change it back if you like but 1. I'm sure there is a server issue because the Wiki actually stores every new version, rather than the diff (the diff is simply the difference between the two versions calculated 'on the fly'). Editing in sections, by contrast, the new section is stored (well I think so). 2. Splitting into sections allows groups of people to work on different bits at the same time without edit conflicts 3. (Probably the most important reason) splitting into sections allows one to compare the Latin directly with the English when translating). Not a problem with small poems but huge chunks as in Ovid are impossible to work on when there is a large Latin chunks, then a corrspondingly large English chunk. Up to you - I'll stop work for now. Ockham 12:07, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I had not considered (3), but I think that our pages should be designed for viewing purposes rather than simplified editing. Have you considered my point about the users ability to copying?
(1) and (2) are bogus. The server stores the new page, complete, irrespective of whether only a section was modified. Selecting to edit only a section actually creates extra work for the server because it must then find the section to send, and must then merge the section on submit. This additional server cost is acceptable for large pages, because for large pages, it is better when the the server has to send and receive less. Anyway, that is the technical part.
But, dont stop! Issues related to style, presentation and performance can always be fixed later. Ultimately, it is your work. I am only letting you know my thoughts, sometimes a little too bluntly perhaps. John Vandenberg 12:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
OK these are good points (not a techie re the server, thanks for that). I certainly did consider the point about cutting and pasting. On the other hand, (3) predominates: the only other solution I can think of is to cut the poem up into different pages altogether, but then you would still have the same problem, indeed worse than before (after all, you can copy the latin and english into MS word and it is the work of seconds to unravel them. I have struggled with the problem of decent parallel texts for years: there is no really adequate software to deal with this. Ockham 17:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps the best solution is to develop translations in the way I suggested, then use some offline merging software (could be easily done on s/sheet) to merge the columns once the version is stable. Btw I have completed an original translation of the first part of Book I of the Metamorphoses here. Thanks, anyway, for these useful thoughts. Ockham 17:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
PPS My campaign in the LJ Latin community has got at least one recruit!

The TenementEdit

Hi, I think there's no need to licence. The author of the original text died in 1913 and I am doing the translation. 15:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Middle EnglishEdit

Hi, thanks for your comment on Wiktionary about Middle English words - sorry it's been so long for a reply. To be honest, it's a rather neglected area on Wiktionary, mainly because there is no consensus about how to deal with them. Personally I do not find it helpful to consider Middle English as a separate language from mdoern English, and so most of the words that I encounter simply go under an =English= heading with a definition along the lines of obsolete spelling of X. However our policy on this hasn't been fleshed out as there aren't yet enough examples.

When it comes to Old English though (which IS very clearly a different language), I'm pretty assiduous so if you want to link from any OE poems then I'll certainly try and make sure all the links work OK! Thanks, — Widsith

Differing Author's prefaces for The Last of the MohicansEdit

Hi, I have expanded The Last of the Mohicans/Introduction because I found it was missing two paragraphs from the 1831 Introduction that is found here. (ISBN 019283505X). Do you recall what source you used ? John Vandenberg (chat) 06:49, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

You have obviously used the 1850 author's preface. Mine is the 1831 preface found in this 1859 edition of the book here. Google books has an 1876 edition and a few others from the turn of the century. I hope that this is helpful to you.--Drboisclair 23:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Looking at the editions that I found in Google books I find that your two added paragraphs are not in the old editions. There were multiple prefaces, but if you look at all the editions in the Google books you will not find your two paragraphs. I will investigate further.--Drboisclair 23:36, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The 1850 introduction is much smaller, so the two paragraphs that you added must be from a revised text of the 1831 preface. You might want to take a look at the Google Books, they contain a preface by Susan Fenimore Cooper, daughter or granddaughter. I confess that I am stumped. At least you will be able to see that there are editions in which the two paragraphs that you added are not there. There must have been a revised preface between the first 1831 preface and the 1850 preface.--Drboisclair 23:46, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


I finished proofreading On Mr. Babbage's new machine for calculating and printing mathematical and astronomical tables. Fascinating, by the way. Now for the Twain obit. . . —Quadell (talk / swapmeet) 00:35, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

. . .and I have now finished proofing The New York Times/Mark Twain. I believe you are, at present, in my debt. :-) —Quadell (talk / swapmeet) 16:20, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Ramayana or The Ramayana?Edit


Why do you think that Ramayana is better than The Ramayana? I don't have a definitive opinion, but I would choose with the article. [2] Thanks, Yann 20:08, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I think I did that because "Ramayana" didnt link anywhere at the time. I prefer not having "The x" when it is only one of many possible translations; I also dislike long page names. But as you are working on it, I am happy to leave the naming up to you. John Vandenberg (chat) 20:30, 23 January 2008 (UTC)



Thanks for the welcome back. I have checked the copyright renewal database, and neither the newspaper, nor the author had renewed Gordon Bostwick Maurer (Epitaph) (or anything else for that matter) in the years eligible. (Thanks for the PD template pointer)

As for Auld Lang Syne, I am the translator (in so much as I translated the few words that were in Scots to make a singable English version). What is the proper way to identify that on the page? —MJBurrage(TC) 09:50, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I've marked it as a "wikisource" translation. Thanks, John Vandenberg (chat) 10:42, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Template issueEdit

I don't know which template to blame, but edits like this are now threatening to delete works published in 1896, simply because the translator is unknown. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Ovid 08:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

That template only says "potential copyright violation". It has a license; all is well. But we do still want to find the translator. John Vandenberg (chat) 09:03, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


I do appreciate and thank you for your kind nomination to admin. But, if its not too much trouble, I need a little more time to put my thoughts into words. ResidentScholar 09:17, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Babbage obitEdit


I was wondering if you had a better scan of the Babbage obituary. I ask because the GIF version (which is a format supporting only a 256 color palette) has made the text look choppy. If there is a JPEG or PNG version, it would be preferred, although I realize there might not be. I was just thinking that since it's nominated for featured status we should get the highest quality scan that we can.—Zhaladshar (Talk) 19:30, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I dont, but The Times is held in many libraries. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:05, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I've got the article for Major General H. P. Baggage in PNG at The Times. Is that the article you were looking for? — DarkFalls talk 23:04, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Okay, on closer examination, you seem to be looking for "The Late Mr. Charles Babbage, F.R.S. "? — DarkFalls talk 23:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


If Matheiu can't license it freely, I'll do up a free-hand translation myself (though I'm rathehr slow, and it would probably take me a good hour's work, so I'd rather not if we can just get the current translation licensed). Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Ovid 03:49, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that "the WS Cabal" (am I still not Cabal?! Dammit!) would say that "permission" is not enough to host a work - unless they agree to license it under the GFDL/PD/CC. I suggest we propose a discussion on this, adding a template that says that "The translator of this work has granted Wikimedia permission to publish their work so that it is available for public consumption - but maintains exclusive right of publication so readers are not allowed to reproduce the text for their own use" or something of that ilk. Even if Broake doesn't give us permission, somebody will someday, and I'd like to be able to point at firm consensus that it's within our inclusion policy if possible. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Ovid 04:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome, but I have an account...Edit

Thanks for the welcome to me as a IP address, but I actually do have an account, I just forgot I was logged out. JesseW 08:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Ida TarbellEdit

Sorry about the confusion, my bad. Then, after getting up from my keyboard with an unsaved edit, I noticed my mistake before I read your message, and proceeded to mess things up more. :-) Hope I cleaned it all up now. Eclecticology 08:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

It was published in 1897 so there should be no copyright problems, but I wasn't the one who uploaded that one. (I do have a few others though.) I found it linked from a number of pages that User:Sherurcij created, but he was only splitting up pages that User:Skunkmaster IV created. He in turn does not appear to have set up a head page for the work so I just to-day sent him a note about that.
Since one screw-up usually leads to another, it appears that I have sometimes misspelled "Tarbell" as "Tarbel", so I'll clean that up right away. Eclecticology 09:04, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Where am I :?Edit

Thanks for promting comments on the 'Manifesto...1881'. My question is, I already have a user name of Politis [[3]] on en.wikipedia. Is the en.wikisource user Politis also mine? Politis 16:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Problem with JVBotEdit

Your bot seems to have caused some problems with the subpages of Shah Nameh. The reason is that I created Template:Header-SN, which I used as a header for all the Shah Nameh articles. However, the bot seems to be overwriting the use of header-sn with header2. Please keep JVBot from overwriting header-sn. --Samael775 23:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)



I'm not aware of a template, but it can be treated the same way as an image. If there is a need for a template (which would contain more information about the file as with {{listen}}), I'd be glad to make one. -SCEhardT 23:59, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Translator param in header2Edit

Hi Jayvdb,

I was wondering if you could chime in on this header2 discussion. I noticed you added the translator parameter to header2, and this is a bit too technical for me to figure out. Thanks!—Zhaladshar (Talk) 22:41, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Template:New textsEdit

We've got a week to find eight new texts for Wikisource:Holidays#St._Valentines_Day so we can update the front page in a week :) Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Portal:Branch Davidians 23:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

fix a header2 glitchEdit

Hi, could you fix a slight glitch in header2? Take a look at Balade to Rosemounde. With the translator param used with a "wikisource" value, there is no proper formatting in the header. Thanks!—Zhaladshar (Talk) 05:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

  Done John Vandenberg (chat) 06:19, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The Religion of GodEdit

Thanks for your concern.

I am an office bearer of International Spiritual Movement Anjuman Serfaroshan-e-Islam and I have full rights to use the content of this book. Thanks again for your concern. --Asikhi 13:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)


Thanks again, I have choosen one and add this tag to The Religion of God --Asikhi 05:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


This book was published in Pakisan and most of publications in Pakistan do not obtain an ISBN. The you referred doesn't belong to us.

--Asikhi 08:51, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks againEdit

I will take care of this. Regards, --Asikhi 09:56, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Help neededEdit

Can you kindly tell me that how can I rename my page? --Asikhi 10:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

That function is not appeared on my page, what to do? Shall I create new page? --Asikhi 11:07, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Alot--Asikhi 11:17, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

FLQ Manifesto of 1970Edit

Yes the document is from "The FLQ Manifesto", Marcel Rioux, Quebec in Question, 1971, translated by James Boake. The copy on is from

I do not know how to contact the translator. — Mathieugp 19:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Author:George Bernard ShawEdit

Thank you for the welcome- I am here because the GBS article in Wikipedia, which I have been editing, contains a link to the subject article here in Wickisource. The Wikisource article errs in several ways:

  • None of the titles it lists under Novels are novels while Cashel Byron's Profession, listed elsewhere really is. (Three other novels are not mentioned.)
  • The Irrational Knot mentioned under Other is, in fact, a play.
  • Most of the works cited are red-linked. That need not be the case. Almost all of them are available in full text, and free for unrestricted use, from Project Gutenberg or elsewhere.

Dare I boldly correct the errors? May I supply external links to replace the existing red-links? And now the biggie: Is it permissible to put the plays from Gutenberg, which exist in ASCII text, in the Wikisource library after they have been properly formatted and converted to .pdf? If you are curious, you can see the list of GBS's works available online in the George Bernard Shaw in Wikipedia. Wugo 23:37, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Help I need. I made a reference section but can't find the code for listing the references to online versions of the novels. How is that done? Please look at my other changes to the article, as well. Are they too bold for one fell swoop? Humbly,Wugo 02:22, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I apologize for decolorizing all those red links; thanks for replacing them. You provide a source for out-of-copyright works by Shaw. May I choose one, eliminate extraneous material, format it for easy reading and upload it Wikisource? May I put it in portable document format (.pdf) for easy searching? May I use a more manageable source for one of the listed works? Within the limits you define I will choose a short selection like Dark Lady of the Sonnets for a trial run. Of course you can expunge it instantly if I transgress the rules. Tempering boldness with discretion, Wugo 03:27, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

No matter how it's sliced the posted page ends up in Wiki format. That is to be expected, but translating to Wicki from Word.doc or .html has proved to be a problem. I have had unsatisfactory results with the tools from Wikipedia. Please tell me how you do it.
I formatted the script of Dark Lady using hunt and peck and will post it shortly. The preface is important, albeit lengthy, so I will delay submitting it in hope of finding an automated method for changing other formats to Wiki.Wugo 23:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
(Excuse me for butting in here.) I use a perlscript that I modify for each document. It's a bit of work, but it's a lot easier than the "hunt and peck" method. :-) I take requests, if there's a text you'll like Wikified. —Quadell (talk / swapmeet) 02:17, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

John- I've submitted Dark Lady's preface as a separate file: Preface to Dark Lady of the Sonnets and noted its availability in Dark Lady of the Sonnets. (1) I'm sure there is a better way to relate the two articles, but I haven't puzzled out the method. (2) Also, the preface may require two pages since it is 68 kilobytes in size. (3) Finally, I did not add copyright information because I thought that might an administrator's thing. I need your advice on all three issues, please.
I mentioned my favorable response to Quadell here, but now it's missing. Did you see it, or should I send it again? Wugo 01:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Fait accompli! I have proofed Dark Lady and am ready for another project. Quadrell has submitted Caesar and Cleopatra independently, so I'll read it carefully for typos and correct them if I find them.Wugo 04:47, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

History of Iowa From the Earliest Times...Edit

I asked you a few questions about this work a while back (this may refresh your memory). The work can be found here. The indexes are very incomplete. I actually need a physical copy of Volume 4 to finish that volume due to Google's scanning errors, so that will take another few weeks. Google also does not have Volume 3 online. I've noticed that you added a few chapters of Volume 1—more than a few actually! I've decided to move your contribution to the page structure as well. There is a general index at the end of Volume 4 and the work must be in page form for it to be useful.

However, I think having Volume 1, 2, and 3 divided up by chapter might help improve the reading experience. Reading the bite-sized pages can be annoying. Would it be possible to have the work in chapter and page form? History of Iowa From the Earliest Times to the Beginning of the Twentieth Century would have to remain a redirect since the Index: page should be the default page. However, we could have links to subpages of the redirect on the Index: page. The links would take you to History of Iowa From the Earliest Times to the Beginning of the Twentieth Century/1, /2, etc. They would have links to further subpages containing the chapters. Do you think this would work and be acceptable? Thanks, Psychless 01:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I just remembered that Volume 4 could be divided up by biographical entry. This means History of Iowa From the Earliest Times to the Beginning of the Twentieth Century could be the default page, with links to Volumes 1–3 divided up by chapter (including preface) and Volume 4 divided up by biographical entry (include preface and index as well). The main page could then link to the Index: version as an alternative. Let me know if you have any disagreements with this structure. Psychless 23:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I do realize that. I guess I didn't make that clear in my last post. If we both agree on the structure that should be used, which I think we do, I'll begin adding the entries to the main space. First though, I still have a question concerning History of Iowa From the Earliest Times to the Beginning of the Twentieth Century/4. How should we present the links to the biographical entries? Psychless 02:14, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh, glad to hear we are on the same page. Leave Vol. 4 with me for an hour or two and I'll do a prototype of the logical structure. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good; all I need is a table of links with one link per entry (not counting the preface and such). The pagequality templates are only on the roman numeral pages, but the regular pages have textquality templates that should be removed. If you could remove these with your bot that would be great. Psychless 03:14, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually I'd like something different than transcluding the pages. If you could use your bot to create a list of all the entries and create the list in this form:

  • entry1
  • entry2
  • entry3

Then just put <div style="-moz-column-count:3; column-count:3;"> at the top to organize the links into three columns:

  • entry1
  • entry2
  • entry3

If you could do the same thing for the images that would be great. If it turns out you can't do this with your bot notify me so I can help. I also don't mind if you create the entries with your bot. Just use Page:History of Iowa From the Earliest Times to the Beginning of the Twentieth Century/4/1 as an example. Psychless 13:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll set it up like that. John Vandenberg (chat) 15:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I hope figuring out how to automatically create those entries is going well. I have a few questions though.

If you see the index, you'll notice that the links have a red box behind each of them since the pages no longer have a pagequality template. Since this creates the appearance that something is wrong, should your bot add <noinclude>{{PageQuality|3|Psychless}}</noinclude> back in?

I have obtained Volumes 1, 2, and 4 of the work from my local library. Unfortunately, they only had volume 3 in their reference section. I have started scanning images, which raised the question of where the portraits in Volume 4 should go. In the "official" version they will have to either be at the top of the entry or on their own page. I'm leaning towards having them at the top of the entry.

Psychless 21:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Request for speedy deletionEdit

Would you please delete this page: Nietzche contra Wagner: Documents of a Psychologist. I created it using the link at the Author:Friedrich Nietzsche page which turned out to be misspelled. The text has been move over to Nietzsche contra Wagner: Documents of a Psychologist which of course is the correct spelling of his name. Not sure if this is the correct procedure for deleting pages so I came here for some help. The editing history will be lost but I don't think that will be too much of a big deal. Right? Thanks. - Alcmaeonid 01:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


I can not find the source for this in the US State Department website. Noting the typo "In the late l8th century" the text is only available here and here. VartanM 23:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I have asked for more details on Talk:State Department History of the Nagorno-Karabakh Conflict, and notified Adil via email. Thank you. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:16, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your welcomeEdit

Hi, i have a question for you. Do you think that most books hosted at the Gutenberg project website are public domain and i can post some of the on wikisource? Thank you Adrian Comollo 20:27, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


FYI, you're right that many PG texts do not record what edition they came from. Early texts—ones with low numbers—used to have a disclaimer to that effect. But newer texts say which edition they refer to, and can therefore be more effectively proofed. Similarly, older texts were proofread by a single volunteer, with widely varying levels of quality; but many newer texts come from Distributed Proofreaders, which has quality rates equivalent to professional jobs. So it really depends on which Gutenberg text. That's why when I import texts from PG, I always credit who did the importing and proofing for them. All the best, —Quadell (talk / swapmeet) 04:04, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

on the merge proposalEdit

Yes. Now I've raised a proposal and I've put a link in Chinese Wikisource Scriptorium. Thank you for your reminding! 百家姓之四 09:20, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


Hi jay,

I am sorry but the OCR robot does not work currently. I guess I should remove that button. ThomasV 08:51, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

No drama. John Vandenberg (chat) 09:36, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


I'll start working on it a little later. VartanM 06:08, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Ill at EaseEdit

Weaver Press and East African Publishers had both agreed to publish it. However, i wasn't happy with their contractual terms and so i have have decided to release it to the public domain instead. This is my second book, working on a third one right now.

Request for MediationEdit

If User:Eclecticology reverts Bell-Buoy again, can you please use your good offices to appoint an independent mediator. Thank you.--Poetlister 23:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Frances Sargent OsgoodEdit

Hi, thanks for bringing Frances to Wikisource! She is one of the writers I have been working on. My list is growing sooo long. It is nice to see someone else take an interest. Hopefully her red links will be blue soon! - Epousesquecido 19:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

BTW, the formatting for the poem was not a new idea, something similar is on the Frances talk page. I just added the letters in red for the 14th. (Lar showed me how) Glad you liked it. - Epousesquecido 22:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


Hi again! I noticed that you recently edited Template:Header2. Would you be willing to implement the changes at Wikisource:Scriptorium#Add a couple default values to Template:Header2? The sooner this is implemented, the better, especially since until it is implemented, the replacement code has to be synchronized every time an edit is made to Template:Header2. —Remember the dot (talk) 17:16, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

From AdrianEdit

Hi Jay, Thank you for your message. I will let you know soon what books i am interested from gutenberg. By the way, is it sufficient to copy and paste with text format or do i need to know more? Thank you, Adrian Comollo 22:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Corrected linkEdit

I corrected a link at proposed deletions in response to your comment.

John Cross 10:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Thank you! Slade meta 13:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Ill at Ease Author Trymore MacVivo DeletionEdit

Why delete the author page?? Makes no sense. please explain. unsigned comment by (talk) 14:29, 18 February 2008.

We do not usually keep author pages for living authors; only when we have works of the author that are free and published do we keep author pages for living people. e.g. Author:Eben Moglen, Author:George Walker Bush and Author:Barack Obama. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:40, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Treatise on LawEdit

Hi, I noticed you put the {{split}} template on that work. I had split that work before but User: restored a previous version and moved the split text to Treatise on Law (Q by Q). There is not much sense in keeping two split versions. Personally, I'd favour pepping up the latter page, and then moving it over Treatise on Law (we'd need to undelete some revisions of Treatise on Law, to honour all contributions). If, on the other hand, we keep the long version, we should at least use transclusion to avoid duplicating text. I'll notify User: of this discussion (they don't seem to be still around, though).--GrafZahl (talk) 09:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

What Is Lojban?Edit

Thanks for your message, John.

If you take a look at "IV. REQUIREMENTS ON MODIFIED WORKS" of OPL you'll see that modification (including translation) is allowed as long as it is noted as such, and the location of original document is mentioned.

By the way, I am not related in any way with LLC. I am just a fan of Lojban and had bought the book. It would be nice to have the the document in English Wikisource and get it translated to other languages (as far as I know until now they have only published the English version). That is actually the reason why I put it here.

Vyasa 10:05, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, John. I think OPL is compatible with Wikisource copyright policy. While waiting for reactions from others about your proposal, I proceed with working on the layout of What Is Lojban?. I will work on the translation(s) only if your proposal to include OPL in Wikisource is accepted. — Vyasa 09:20, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for letting me know about the location of Lojban materials in other languages. The brochures are short versions of What Is Lojban?. The later is a full-blown book originated from the brochure. Unfortunately they don't have materials in target languages I have in mind. Vyasa 12:23, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your helpEdit

Hi, thank for your suggestion about gutemberg texts. I will start soon to upload one of them, and then more. Adrian Comollo 19:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

The CaptiveEdit

Thanks. I've created the dab page and will upload the Kipling poem in the near future.--Poetlister 12:40, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

where are headers/footers in dejavu?Edit

Please point me to the headers and footers in dejavu pages, particularly in our Reading Gaol project. I see that titles, section headings, and page numbers are hidden there, and that they don't get included, but I'm not sure where they hide.

Thanks, --Mike O'D 02:52, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

On the "Page:..." edit form, the first button ("[+]"[4]) at the top shows/hides the header/footer. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Found 'em. But now, I question their use. I think that these should be like headers and footers in LaTeX---they should contain things that are constant (with parameter substition, such as page numbers) from page to page. So, I don't think that the poem title, and the section numbers, belong there. In particular, if the section numbers come out into the main body, they don't need to be treated separately for include vs. noinclude.--Mike O'D 03:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Wiki is not latex. A very important goal of wiki syntax is to be simple; our projects are usually fuelled by layman and enthusiasts, and transcription corrections come from anyone. Complexity turns away potential contributors. The headers and footers on each page are to put stuff that is not the main body of text. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:49, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm still puzzled what is "the main body of text." I think that it probably includes section titles, so they don't belong in the header. I think that my suggestion simplifies, rather than complicates, but it's hard to measure complexity across several pages related by transclusion.--Mike O'D 03:57, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

The section titles could be in the body, but as each section of this work begins at the top of a page, I find it convenient to push them out of the way into the header. My initial reason for doing that is so that the markup of the section header isnt transcluded. This allows the section headings on "The Ballad of Reading Gaol" to use different markup to the markup used on the pages. It also allows the text of Page:The Ballad of Reading Gaol (1904).djvu/19 to be transcluded without also implicitly resulting in a section header being transcluded as well, which may not be desirable depending on the scenario. For example, if I wanted to transclude the text here on my talk page, I most definitely dont want the 2nd level heading ("=="); I would want a 3rd level heading ("==="), or I would use completely different markup.
The complexity problem is that currently these pages have the section title in the header (which is noinclude), and in the body using includeonly. That is not simpler! It should be in either one or the other ; I'll let you decide which. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:27, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Right. We've bumped into the single data entry problem (I prefer that to "complexity"—more specific and more objective). Every time the same value must be entered in more than one place, it's a time bomb: some future change is almost guaranteed to introduce an inconsistency.

But we already had the section number entered twice: once in the page itself, and once in the presentation of the poem with the pages transcluded. I was eliminating the extra copy in the tranclusion, and introduced an extra copy on the transcribed page.

So, on the first poem page (page 19 of the book), I've tried to write the section number "I" only once, in the main text (since I couldn't transclude it from the header), using <noinclude> and <includeonly> to provide two different format decisions.

I think this is basically the right approach. But, I find a dotted line around the display of the section number on the transcribed page now. Don't know where that comes from.

So, aside from any other comment you have, can you tell me what the dotted line means? I'll pause before changing the numbers for sections II-VI. (Or, reverting, if that seems better.)

Cheers--Mike O'D 22:49, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, I solved the dotted line for myself. I have the habit of including a space in my section markup ("== section title =="), and that seems to provoke a box.--Mike O'D 22:58, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

And the result is, IMO, complex. This will scare new users:


Anyway, just finish this work one way or another; you can come back to this work after you have set up a few more works. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, I continue to fuss over it. I'm not particularly committed to different formatting in the transcluded version. I managed to do without the <noinclude>, and let the centering and size increase come through in the inclusion. It looks simpler, but I'm discovering that the whole mechanism is very sensitive to minor changes in source code format—it's crucial to have the <center><big> on a separate line from the ==. I think it was a big language-design boo-boo to let the evaluation of language functions depend critically on small format issues, while the language is also trying to produce a carefully formatted text. Oh, well.
I still have the <includeonly> on the ==s, because they introduce a horizontal line into the page transcription, which might be offensive (I don't totally grok the purpose of the Wiki/HTML mock-up of the page given the presence of the image, so I'm not sure how much fidelity is desirable). I could also drop the == entirely, but the TOC and automatic linking on the transcluded page is rather nice.--Mike O'D 02:38, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
The reasons behind the wikisyntax design are due to it being used for a large array of purposes; it isnt ideal for high fidelity source reproduction. However as our mission, is to increase accessibility of high quality texts, the wiki software is excellent as it is massively distributed.
The primary purpose of putting the text beside the image is to allow easy proof reading - it is intended to help us increase our productivity. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:46, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, if the real purpose of the text beside the image is just for proofreading (which makes lots of sense to me), then I think I'll really simplify, drop all noinclude/includeonly, and let the bogus horizontal line appear. It does no harm to the proofreadability.--Mike O'D 02:57, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
What you have done looks good; it is over and above the usual level of detail, and it helps to keep those images linked onto the page they appeared on. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Nice to meet youEdit

Thanks for the nice and helpful welcome in Wikisource. --Toby 16:14, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Australian poetryEdit

Hey, as I believe you are an Australian, I thought I would direct you to Wikisource:Australian poetry both to help fill out the collection, maintain and clean up the index, and for your own possible interest. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Honoré de Balzac 00:58, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Ballad of Reading GaolEdit

You asked:

"Do you have any suggestions on what the "Regulations Act" in The Ballad of Reading Gaol#III might be referring to? John Vandenberg (chat) 03:06, 23 February 2008 (UTC)"

I believe it could be a reference to Capital Punishment Amendment Act 1868.

"The Governor was strong upon The Regulations Act: The Doctor said that Death was but A scientific fact: And twice a day the Chaplain called, And left a little tract."

The Capital Punishment Amendment Act 1868 states that:

"The sheriff charged with the execution, and the gaoler, chaplain, and surgeon of the prison, and such other officers of the prison as the sheriff requires, shall be present at the execution."


"As soon as may be after judgment of death has been executed on the offender, the surgeon of the prison shall examine the body of the offender, and shall ascertain the fact of death, and shall sign a certificate thereof, and deliver the same to the sheriff.

The sheriff, and the gaoler and chaplain of the prison, and such justices and other persons present (if any) as the sheriff requires or allows, shall also sign a declaration to the effect that judgment of death has been executed on the offender."

I can find no other reference to this being the "regulations act" but it is certainly the Act that set out the rules for execution in prisons. The full title of he Act would have been out of place in the poem.

See also [5]

Hope this helps,

John Cross 15:58, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

About lst and purgeEdit

Hello Jayvdb
I write this about two things, one to ask and one to offer. 1. This morning I heard something you said about purging a page in order to obtain that the image appears ; but I haven't understood, I have tried, it suppressed the text, but still no image. 2. I heard a question you asked about how to include only a section of a page into another page : this question I can answer. Look for instance here and here. First, you mark the beginning and the end of the section like this ; then you include the labelled section like this. Can this page help? and if you can explain the purge thing to me, it would help me too! :) Regards, - --Zephyrus 15:51, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I found that in order to view the images for a new djvu file, such as Index:Light waves and their uses.djvu, I needed to purge each page, using action=purge:
If your problem is to do with fr:Livre:Œuvres de Turgot, I think you have a different problem: the djvu file "Image:Turgot - Œuvres de Turgot I.djvu" does not exist!
p.s. I have figured out how to use labelled sections. See Index:Jane Eyre.djvu and Jane Eyre/Chapter XVII.
John Vandenberg (chat) 16:18, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
For the labelled sections, yes "There's more than one way to do it." is a good truism. About Turgot, you are right: I was trying to see a nonexistent file, for that I would have needed some kind of magic powers. :) I imagine that this purge action will be useful in the future for other files than this one. Thanks for your help. --Zephyrus 01:05, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
I have used the purge tool to-night : very useful. Thanks again.- --Zephyrus 00:10, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Lydia SigourneyEdit

To my knowledge there is only one Lydia Sigourney of note—ever.... Her books often had her name as "Mrs. Sigourney," "Mrs. L. H. Sigourney," and in magazines she often showed up as "L. H. Sigourney" or "L. H. S." Her full name is Lydia Howard Huntley Sigourney. Is there something in particular that made you think there were two authors? Is it just the description on her page? I don't have any problem with changing the description on her page... I suppose the above explanation might be helpful, along with redirects to her page like Author:Mrs. Sigourney to help people that are looking for her and don't know her full name. --Mkoyle 16:16, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

That was a silly mistake on my part... I copy the headers out of already-existing articles and ... you can guess from there. Thanks for checking on what was going on. --Mkoyle 04:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Now that I look at that again—and see that most of the page was missing for an entire day—I can't help but wonder if my cache was playing tricks on me because I looked at the page various times and never saw the missing parts. Thanks again. --Mkoyle 04:34, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Public Domain Comic Book ProjectEdit

Hey John,

I'm thinking of starting a project that will pull together public domain comic books and make them available here at Wikisource. I'd love any advice/warnings before taking the plunge.


atomicsteve 03:57, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Block of (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log · SUL)

Hi John. I noticed you blocked this IP for a whole week. However, WHOIS information suggests this IP is dynamically allocated from a pool for PPP connections, so your block may prevent legitimate users from participating as soon it is reused. In such a case, it is typically a good idea to assume that after 24 hours, the vandal does no longer have this IP, unless it is known that the ISP in question uses a different allocation scheme. Therefore, I'd like to suggest you reduce the block to something in the order of 24 hours. (If you know all this already, I apologise.) These considerations apply to IPs only, as autoblocks for registered users expire automatically after 24 hours, regardless of the duration of the block.--GrafZahl (talk) 09:54, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

It's PPP over something (PPPoX), which means it is PPP within another protocol, in this case it is ADSL, rather than dialup. ADSL IP address are usually static for months, until the user resets their modem, and in many cases their IP is kept reserved until their modem reconnects. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
I've got ADSL, too (PPPoE), and my ISP resets the connection every 24 hours ("for technical reasons", they claim), as well as most other ISPs I know of. But then, I live in Europe and the above IP is from Texas, where things are probably different. Well, never mind.--GrafZahl (talk) 10:25, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
That IP is definitely in California and it is run by AT&T - they are not short of IP addresses to play with (which is usually what ISPs mean by "technical reasons" for resetting connections). Here in Australia, resetting connections is very rare for broadband, and I dont see any mention of it on the ISP's terms and conditions for the AT&T basic plan. I'll keep the 24hr reset in mind whenever I am blocking a European IP. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:54, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for the welcome, is there a possibility that i could do what i do on wikipedia like reverting vandalism, patrolling new pages and being a recent changes patroller and also where is the user scripts like those on wikipedia. Terra 20:21, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Letter to Benjamin Bailey, November 22, 1817Edit

Thanks! --S.dedalus 01:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank youEdit

Hi, thank you for fixing the problems, I appreciate it. Adrian Comollo 23:34, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Ceyockey responderEdit

Thank you for your comments; I will undertake revisions as suggested. (a quick note to indicate that I am not ignoring you). --Ceyockey 01:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I have moved images to Commons and added a see-also cross reference to WS:IG. --Ceyockey 11:01, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Administrator nominationEdit

I wanted to thank you for your nomination and feel very highly honored for this. I am willing to accept but am unsure how to do this. Wild Wolf 02:01, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

How do youEdit

Have proof of publication??!! my latest story just got deleted because I didnt have any proof!

Page renameEdit

Could you please rename this page: Jacob_Burkhardt ? The correct spelling s/b: Burckhardt.

Thanks, ~ Alcmaeonid 19:29, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for the welcome. Unfortunately, don't get your hopes up too much. I just looked something up and noticed it needed a tweak, so thought I had better create an ID to match my others before doing it. Sandpiper 14:39, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

The Survival of "The Survival"Edit

" The Fifth Book of Horace's Odes, rendered into English by Rudyard Kipling and Charles Graves, and adorned with notes of variations faith- fully edited from the original manu- scripts by A. D. Godley. Oxford : Basil Blackwell, 1920."


PD-1923 appears to apply though I am not sure if Kipling was translator or author. See also the text at the top of The Survival indicating its source.

I am still strugling with this one -

"Although there was no enlarged edition of " Book Five," Kipling wrote four more odes purporting to be translations from it. These are " To the Companions : Horace, Ode 17, Bk. V," " The Portent : Horace, Ode 20, Bk. V," "The Survival: Horace, Ode 22, Bk. V," "The Last Ode : Horace, Ode 31, Bk. V "—all of which appeared in Debits and Credits in 1926, and were later included in all editions of " Collected Verse."

John Cross 22:23, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Does this poem need to be removed?

John Cross 16:14, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


Since I shouldn't be considering CotW my private fiefdom (I do, but shouldn't), do you want to go ahead and throw GWB up for a week? It might be interesting to do "relevent current-day people" after major international elections/coups/attacks as well in the future — assuming we make liberal use of that "speeches" loophole when dealing with non-American/SouthAfrican/Polish people. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Honoré de Balzac 01:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Yea, sounds good. I'll roll it over in the next hour or so. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:51, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

The Page: link for your image wasn't working, so I assumed it was corrupted. I grabbed the image resolution off the DOD PDF, so I'd assume that's "original" or whatever. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Honoré de Balzac 03:37, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Create accountEdit

I created account now as you wish, but I will do interwiki links most of the time, and if I have any free time, I will contribute to English Wikisource. --Passawuth 09:18, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi and thanksEdit

Hi! Thanks so much for the welcome and for starting the discussion, I wasn't aware of convention. Thanks! Keilana 13:44, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Python wikibotEdit

I have a problem with Python wikibot. I copied the unusedfiles code from the User:JVbot page, but it doesn't work. Can you told me more clearly please ? I just started to run the bot on my wikipedia. Thanks ! --Passawuth 13:51, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm running it on Wikipedia th. I tried very hard to run as well. It works except the function deadendpages you're working on. --Passawuth 13:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)


A large part of it appears similar to this FindLaw backgrounder, but notice there are changes - though notice the quotes...

"More than 20,000 people were killed in fighting from 1992 to 1994 (original)

"Over 30,000 people were killed in the fighting from 1992 to 1994."(Our version)

I'll keep looking for a real source though. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Honoré de Balzac 03:45, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Add in a dose of the State Department factbook

...began in 1988 when Armenian demonstrations against Azerbaijani rule broke out in both N-K and Armenia and the N-K Supreme Soviet voted to secede from Azerbaijan. In 1990, after violent episodes in N-K, Baku and Sumgait, Moscow declared a state of emergency in N-K, sent troops to the region, and forcibly occupied Baku. In April 1991, Azerbaijani militia and Soviet forces targeted Armenian paramilitaries operating in N-K; Moscow also deployed troops to Yerevan. However, in September 1991, Moscow declared it would no longer support Azerbaijani military action in N-K. Armenian militants then stepped up the violence. In October 1991, a referendum in N-K approved independence. (Original)

In 1988, Armenian demonstrations against Azerbaijani rule broke out in both NK and Armenia, and the NK Supreme Soviet voted to secede from Azerbaijan. In 1990, after violent episodes in NK, Baku, and Sumgait, Moscow declared a state of emergency in NK, sent troops to the region and forcibly occupied Baku. In April 1991, Azerbaijani militia and Soviet forces targeted Armenian paramilitaries operating in NK; Moscow also deployed troops to Yerevan. However, in September 1991 Moscow declared it would no longer support Azerbaijani military action in N-K. Armenian militants then stepped up the violence. In October 1991, a referendum in N-K approved independence. (Our version)

Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Honoré de Balzac 04:15, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Religion of the Brahmo SamajEdit

Dear John, The copyright law of India for books is life of author + 60 years. This is extendable correspondingly by 60 years each time "revised editions" of the work are brought out. The work in question has been through many such revisions and is a standard reference for the Sadharan Brahmo Samaj who may be the current copyright holders. The burden of Proof for lapse of copyright therefore rests on whoever has uploaded this work to wikisource. Secondly, when a proper PDF version of this book is available to academia, we must question why an obviously OCR scanned and poorly proofed version is being uploaded here. Ronosen 05:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Elemoont author foundEdit


The brother of the author of the Elemoont has written back and has offered to facilitate the exchange of appropriate licensing information. See the latest entry at WS:COPYVIO where I have asked you about the kind of releases and documentation he needs to provide.

ResScholar 04:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


Are these footnotes in the original? John Vandenberg (chat) 08:47, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes it is. You can check it in the scan file in pdf. I have found in the help somewhere that it should be incorporated to the text; I hope to have done it the right way. By the way, in the original edition, sections are numbered all the way through ((1), (2), ... , (116) at the beginning of a new idea) but are not titled in the introduction (Part I). Right now, the part I uses numbers and part II uses titles only. I wonder whether we should put numbers in part II as well. --MPerrin 19:58, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for explanation of translation policyEdit

Thanks for your explanation of wikisource translation policy.

I'll have to think carefully about how to operate within it.

Kind regards ... Terry

Terry0051 09:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Bot issueEdit

Look, I am a reasonable person. Talking to me over issues can do wonders. There is no reason for you to object to my bot request on and here simultaneously. I am merely trying to help. I am not a threat. :)

I will not run the bot (aside from test edits as they are requested) on any language edition of wikisource until I get bot flags or approval on all of them. This is for two reasons.

One: The auto-spam blocker limits me to make a certain number of edits per minute from my IP unless the edit comes from a user with a bot flag. Now thats "certain number of edits per minute" wikimedia wide as in 1 edit per every edition or 7 editions of wikisource can easily disrupt the bots operation. For example if an interwiki linked page is been moved all interwiki links would need an update. If that page is interwiki inked on 20 wikis, such an update will most likely cause the bot to abort mid-process. If the page exists on say 50 wikis interwikilinking that one page may take hours. Please look at the greater picture. :) Also note that bots edits can be easily reviewed through the bots contribution even with a bot flag.

Two: I am not tying to alienate every community in wikisource or other projects. I am merely trying to offer my free services.

-- Cat chi? 16:08, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I expect that a bot operator becomes familiar with the community and the unique needs of a project before the offer to help "fix" things. Otherwise they can cause more issues than they solve. I've replied at length on WS:S. John Vandenberg (chat) 09:24, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

George W. BushEdit

Thanks for the invite, I am a little busy at with school at the moment but I'd love to chip in what I can. I can identify 4 times that the President has addressed the UN, the texts to 2 of the speeches are on the White House page and 1 is on the UN's page. I know very little about copywrite law - would I be able to copy the addresses from those sources or would I have to find others? - Schrandit 20:47, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


btw, why do you think we need {{Infobox}}. I cant see how it is useful for Wikisource. All of our pages use {{header}}. Cheers, John Vandenberg (chat) 06:56, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

My entire document is in a single PDF. I had just expected to have something like on Commons where you can list the author, the URL you got the file from, etc. in a nicely formatted table. But I gave up on moving Infobox in from Wikipedia, it has too many pieces to do quickly and I really just wanted to toss this document up here.--Struthious Bandersnatch 08:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Line breaks, tabs, and long dashesEdit

Hey! How do I create tabs and long dashes?I may need to know how to make line breaks too..WhisperToMe 04:44, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Never mind - I only want to know how to do tabs now as I figured the other two out. WhisperToMe 05:28, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I meant intention - thank you very much :) WhisperToMe 05:49, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


I was surprised Obama's speech wasn't already there when I got there. I'm supposed to be on wikibreak so I'm only cheating a little by showing up here. Way less overhead here, imo. — Kendrick7 20:55, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: KAL 007 and the Russian Ramming AttemptEdit

I wanted to put this up and have it linked to the the article on KAL 007 as this piece really fleshes out the build up of tension during the search and rescue operations for KAL 007 and its black box. It was written by a US seaman, Don Downing aboard the CSCG Sterrett and he witnessed the events he writes about. The article itself was a paper submitted by Don for his college course work and he has given me written permission for me to use as I see fit. That's about all I have on it. I hope it is enough to keep the article up. Let me know if it would help for me to send you a copy of the permission89.138.50.118 21:45, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Replied on anon users talk. John Vandenberg (chat) 18:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

The Conservative Nanny StateEdit

Please see User talk:Mike.lifeguard’s response on the speedy delete issue. What do you think? Is this something for which it would make sense to open an OTRS ticket, or not? Tarmstro99 00:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

No, I dont think we need an OTRS ticket for works we arnt going to keep. The permission statement doesnt say "modify", so it is an ND license. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:39, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
OK. Pity, though. I’ll take care of the deletions myself starting tomorrow, unless you're itching to do them sooner. Tarmstro99 00:51, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
done. Tarmstro99 08:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks; it's hard to delete good material. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:59, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


I have copyright problem which hesitate me from writing it on Wikisource : The work has been written by the French author. It then was translated by King Rama VI in the last century as well into Thai. I don't sure this case is PD-Old or not but the publisher hold copyright on material.

If you can assist me then it would be very grateful. Thanks ! --Passawuth 13:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
It'll be useless anyway because it's in Thai name. The ISBN of the book is 974-93813-8-6 and is translated from the French work of Author:William Le Queux which I suppose it's on the line

Mysteries of a Great City, (1920) stories

Can you check the copyright law for me please ? --Passawuth 11:15, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Yep. It says King Rama VI translated this piece in 2464 B.E. which is equaled to 1921 A.D. So, it's free ? I confuse because the publisher has a copyright on it. --Passawuthtalk 12:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
The publisher send message to King Rama VI foundation to wait for the response to publish King Rama VI' translation. I'll read you a fist paragraph of the prefect.

บริษัท อักษรเจริญทัศน์ อจท. จำกัด ได้มาแจ้งความจำนงขอพิมพ์พระราชนิพนธ์ในพระบาทสมเด็จพระมงกุฎเกล้าเจ้าอยู่หัวเรื่อง "คดีลึกลับแห่งมหานคร เล่ม ๑ และคดีลึกลับแห่งมหานคร เล่ม ๒" มูลนิธิฯ พิจารณาเห็นว่าพระราชนิพนธ์เรื่องนี้เป็นพระราชนิพนธ์ที่ทรงคุณค่า และจะเป็นประโยชน์อย่างยิ่งแก่ผู้อ่าน จึงยินดีอนุญาตให้จัดพิมพ์จำหน่ายได้ตามความประสงค์

I'll give you an English translation soon after I finish downloading something. --Passawuthtalk 13:09, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Translation :

Aksornjaroentad Ajt. Company Ltd. has informed its desire to publish royal work of King Vajiravudh (Rama VI) : "Mysteries of a Great City Book 1 and Mysteries of a Great City Book 2". The foundation consider that this royal work is a valuable work and will give much benefit to the reader. The foundation thus glad to allow the publisher to publish King Vajiravudh's royal work as desired. --Passawuthtalk 13:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

It sounds quite impossible that it is published the first time because King Rama VI lived in the WWI time while this book published 2 years ago. There have to be another version before this, otherwise, how the publisher can publish the first edition book 80 years after the book have been translated. --Passawuthtalk 14:16, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Nah, I didn't find any. --Passawuthtalk 06:11, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

St. Bruno, Archbishop of CologneEdit

Can you please help me determine if this article, which I have included on my talk page, is online in the Wikisource copy of the Catholic Encyclopedia? I can't seem to locate it here, on New Advent, or on Catholicity. If it is not online — how would you recommend that it be incorporated. I have transcribed it myself from the source text (Vol. III of the Catholic Encyclopedia). Hopefully, I have just overlooked it. Thanks! --Saint Wiki I 03:46, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Andrei Lubensky worksEdit

John, how do we begin/communicate about the ticket (I understand that's the word for the documentation for the process of approval) for Andrei Lubensky's works at

I still have minor concerns about articles: Doesn't seemed to be offering an implied share-alike license when it suggests reproductions can be made if their specific attribution requirement (the hyperlink) is met? I was thinking we could use the CC-SA template for the license for these articles. ResScholar 05:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Forward the emails you have to, and I or another OTRS person will look at them, and create the ticket.
We cant use the CC-SA tag unless they have specifically agreed to that license, with all of its legalese. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:12, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


re see my page on cs.source, regards, -jkb- (cs.source) 12:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Virginia PlanEdit

Hi, I didn't know where else to turn, so I sent a message to the first admin. The page mentioned in the section's title Is it certain that this is the correct text: of what I can see here, and on this image, it doesn't quite fit the text. Or is this not the same Virginia Plan as on Wikipedia? diego_pmc 19:11, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Answered on Talk:Virginia Plan. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:12, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

licence questionEdit

Hello Jay, wanted to ask, if you perhaps have here some kind of info ? Thx, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses Chat (try) 18:29, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

ping, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses Chat (try) 23:19, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

German ideologyEdit

Thank you for the welcome template. The translators are still alive, however it comes from, which has all its works under public domain. as you can see this is my first paper, and I am still sorting through how to acomplish the task. I will go over the welcome template again. do I create a page for the translators...or how do I indicate it came from public domain?Coffeepusher 02:02, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

The translators implicitly have a copyright on their translation. Do you have evidence that they have released their work into the public domain? John Vandenberg (chat) 02:05, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
on the website it stated that all works where of public domain unless otherwise indicated...and there was no idication. I added the template for public domain.Coffeepusher 02:07, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I've spoken with the Marxist Internet Archive before and they've confirmed to me that all their original translations are PD, for what it's worth. They host a few translations which aren't their own and some texts that might not fit on WS ( by more modern Marxists and Communists), but in the case of a work by Marx (thus PD) and translated by the MIA themselves, I can say with 99.99% certainty that it is indeed PD. :) Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Aeschylus 02:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Do you have that in writing; do they have a statement to that effect on their website, or can you forward an email from them to m:OTRS ? John Vandenberg (chat) 02:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I've probably got an eMail, I'll check when I get home from work. If I don't still have one, I'll eMail them again for another copy of their notice of release. Cheers. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Aeschylus 02:21, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Its on at the bottom of the page, listing that it is public domainCoffeepusher 02:27, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
It says that MIA created content is covered by {{CC-BY-SA}} John Vandenberg (chat) 02:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, I have added the template.Coffeepusher 02:49, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

That sounds great, I have already made internal "next page" Tags within the text, just fyi so those will need to be spaced as well.Coffeepusher 02:54, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your time, I appriciate you helping me out. I will add headers to all the pages in just a min.Coffeepusher 04:41, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

To answer your question, no. there is no reason it shouldn't be that way. the reason I broke it down the way it is structured is that is the way it was broken down in the origional text (on line that is) and the naming was just what I came up with...the third chapter exploded on me (I had never read the third chapter, only summeries so I didn't realise how long it actually was), so it may seem a little haphazard. I will be glad to go with whatever your suggestion is in this matter, because I agree it doesn't look right, I just can't really tell why (beeing a newbie).Coffeepusher 21:19, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Coalition Provisional AuthorityEdit

After the webpage for the w:Coalition Provisional Authority under w:Paul Bremer went offline for a year, it's recently come back online and I was wanting to make sure we mirrored all its documents due to their incredible historic interest. I was hoping your bot would be able to somehow help fill out the texts I've listed at Wikisource:Coalition Provisional Authority, all of which are handily held at (at least for the time being). Worst-case scenario I suppose even if the bot could just upload the PDFs to Commons, or create Page: textspaces or would be a great help in preserving these documents. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Karl Marx 02:46, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Work of a US Federal Employee. "The CPA was created and funded as a division of the United States Department of Defense, and as Administrator, Bremer reported directly to the Secretary of Defense." Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Karl Marx 02:58, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Any update? I'd hate for these to go offline again without being mirrored, they're obviously incredibly important documents. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Karl Marx 23:44, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Because that would simply lead me to point to you and say "Hey, see these archives? Can you import them?" ;) In all seriousness, the Wayback Machine is bad at archiving PDF/Doc and even images - so you'll see an archive, but the links to the actual documents are dead. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Karl Marx 23:55, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
A note that I've hosted the PDFs to commons:Category:Coalition Provisional Authority documents, I now only await you rigging your bot to extract them :) Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Karl Marx 20:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Book XV of the MetamorphosesEdit

I've realised that the subtitles in my edition are annotated as numbers in the margin, which then redirect to the endnotes. Therefore, I have added the subtitles to the fifteenth book. — Grammaticus 16:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the translation boasts a preface of comparative length by Sir Samuel Garth. Though this translation is frequently dubbed, 'The Garth Translation', it was merely under the direction of Sir Samuel Garth — his only contribution being the preface and the translation of the Fourteenth Book.
This edition also specifies who was responsible for translation each specific tale. To wit, Dryden was the translator of the complete First & Twelfth Books, Addison of the Second and Third; Arthur Mainwarning, of the Fifth; Mr. Croxall, of the Sixth; and, insofar as the Fourth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, Tenth, Eleventh, Thirteenth & Fifteenth are concerned, they were completed by divers hands. It appears that the only contribution of Alexander Pope was 'The Fable of Dryope' in the Ninth Book. — Grammaticus 14:11, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Moreover, I've replaced the previous author of 'Baucis & Philemon' with John Dryden, since it was he who had translated that specific tale within the 'Garth Translation' (or, the collaborative edition). — Grammaticus 14:18, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, yes, indeed; you are correct in stating that my change was incorrect. For it was a hasty presumption on my behalf, and, therefore, I apologise. Thank you for reverting the error.-- Grammaticus 12:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

PS : Has there been any progress with Kit Marlowe's translation of the Amores? And, with Marlowe on topic, perhaps his Massacre at Paris warrants a brief moment's attention. — Grammaticus 13:07, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I havent looked at Amores yet, but I have put a few moments into starting the cleanup at Massacre at Paris; all that it requires is the addition of blank lines to prevent the lines concatenating together. John Vandenberg (chat) 14:16, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


Sent you an e-mail. - Mtmelendez 12:35, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

The Religion of the Brahmo SamajEdit

Dear Shri Vandeburg, I am having problem in viewing this page (Talk) properly in my browser. Sections are overlapping. About book The Religion of the Brahmo Samaj, by Hem Chandra Sarker, I am writing now to that talk page for the book with all evidences about vandal / pirate who is uploading the book. I request you to delete the article / book which is stolen / pirated from a work whose copyright stiil vests in the publisher. Ronosen 15:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


Since you welcome templated me, I figure it's only fair that I get to ask you if there's a page somewhere that explains how to use the pages in the "Author" namespace. Is there? I can't seem to find one, yet Author:Peter Jones would be a pretty stupid interwiki target since it doesn't link to the source text I'm converting.

Cheers, WilyD 16:10, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. WilyD 16:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

re: my translationEdit

In Warning Against the Jews (1546): Thanks for helping me with this! Your contribution is much appreciated--Drboisclair 20:28, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


It was a little offtopic there, so I moved it here: I just created Homestead Act page, which is made by the same Congress as the Morrill Act (the 37th). Is a Congres suitable as an author? diego_pmc 20:50, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

We have a lot of author pages that are not real people, like Portal:United States Air Force, and Author:United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, and Portal:United States Congress. My preference would be to expand Portal:United States Congress, listing and grouping the acts that we do have, but if you want to work on a specific congress that interests you, creating an author page for that specific Congress is a good idea. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Lubensky worksEdit

John, I've listed the remaining release questions I have dealing with Andrei Lubensky's works at WS:COPYVIO. Best wishes, ResScholar 06:20, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


Hi, on Cum non solum, the translator was Aramgar. See w:User:Aramgar/viam agnoscere veritatis. We're currently discussing that translation, and others, at w:Talk:Viam agnoscere veritatis (1248). I'll freely admit that I'm having trouble figuring out the proper ways to annotate things on Wikisource... What's the best way to indicate that he is the translator? (please reply at w:User talk:Elonka). Thanks! --Elonka 22:25, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I think I've got it fixed? I put Aramgar's name into the header. Should I make any other special note at the talkpage? --Elonka 02:34, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I've added the {{textinfo}} to the talk page; every page should have a textinfo block to provide provenance information. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:53, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Excellent, thank you! I was having some trouble figuring out the proper format to use, but this will give me a good template to use for future translations. :) BTW, I noticed that the "side by side" option seems to work when I click on it from the Latin version,[6] but when I click on it from the English version, the Latin side is just blank.[7] Did I set something up wrong, or is this a known bug? --Elonka 03:41, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
The side-by-side works for me, in both directions. There has been a problem reported recently at Wikisource:Scriptorium#Is DoubleWiki broken?, so if the problem persists for you, please mention it there. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:46, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


Heh, well should it turn out that we need a new template to allow this sort of thing, I know several works I've put on WS that could use it- but until then I'll be a bad admin and hide their nature ;) In the court of Sherurcij, if you deny authorship, you reject your rights. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Karl Marx 03:14, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll find them. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:37, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Div tagsEdit

You know tables better than I, mind showing me how to make it so Wikisource:Texts by Country has three or four vertical tables, instead of one really long one? Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Karl Marx 21:51, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I've used {{colbegin}} and {{colend}} instead of a table, as it requires less maintenance. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
You're the best,
Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Karl Marx 00:08, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Hrm, how would I align the table in User:Sherurcij/sandbox4 to sit on the right side of the screen? div align=right didn't seem to work...that or I failed to use it correctly. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Karl Marx 00:35, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Layout changesEdit

Hi John, could you please take a look at my watchlist. I thought I followed the layout that was proposed for EB1911, especially 'Hyperlinks within Article Text'. Suicidalhamster has changed the layout and removed the smallcaps. I am quite confused now. I would like to know what is expected for the layout before I go on working in here. Greetz --Toby 23:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up - have left comments at Wikisource talk:WikiProject 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica. Suicidalhamster 13:33, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Fundie MormsEdit

Nothing about the recent raid that I can see, nope. If you wanted to add some more general documents, I see an FBI Press Release, but not a whole lot more unless Arizona or Utah have state PD-text laws. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Karl Marx 18:07, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Grab a gander at Letter from John Gould to R. Denny if you have a minute, see if you can decipher some of the writing. Cheers :) Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Cookbooks 17:29, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

ISBN LinksEdit

Are the changes to the local Special:Booksources page anything I can do? If not, are there any plans to do this or a timeframe in which it might be done? It just doesn't make sense to me to be pointing ISBN links to the local, rather impoverished, page, if improving it is a get-around-to-it priority - it would make more sense to me to point links to the Wikipedia Booksources and use a script or something to change the links on that One Fine Day when the local page is improved.

Or maybe just make it a redirect to the Wikipedia page? --❨Ṩtruthious ℬandersnatch❩ 05:18, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Template issues in my recent contributionsEdit

The Page: namespace pages, etc. were originally being categorized in Category:Experimental Templates, and I thought the problem was that in {{Long s}} the categories were outside of the <noinclude/> tag, but I've moved the category markers inside the <noinclude/> tag and all those pages are still showing up... is the categorization cached somehow? The weird thing is that the category membership is not indicated at the bottom of each page.

...wait, if I edit and save a page without making any changes it disappears from the category listing, I'll fix it that way; so it must be a caching state bug somewhere. --❨Ṩtruthious ℬandersnatch❩ 05:48, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

It isnt a bug ... some changes do not ripple through the database immediately. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Reversion of r621014 and r621013Edit

Just FYI, I reverted these edits (you patrolled them yesterday). The IP deleted a work from the list and added what looks similar to an actor's name.--GrafZahl (talk) 08:08, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

The year of the Sugar ActEdit

I have tried to answer the question on the talk page.

John Cross 15:33, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


Hi John. I granted you (and Pathoschild) Checkuser access on this wiki. Please send a mail to checkuser-l-owner at lists dot wikimedia dot org with your standard mail account to get access to the Checkuser-l. You should also request for access to the channel #wikimedia-checkuser on freenode (I guess Cary Bass is the one who does that, but I'm not sure, maybe Pathoschild can do it, too). Welcome! --Thogo 19:44, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

CotW NaziismEdit

I've noticed a disturbing lack of texts added on the authors you have to at least greatly contribute to your own choices! :Þ Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: John Gould 22:19, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I cant see where you are coming from, and am more than a little bit annoyed by your comment. I have contributed heavily to all of the ones I have proposed. I also contribute heavily to many of the ones you have selected, and promote them whenever I can.
As I told you on IRC, John Gould was selected off the cuff by pengo (talkcontribs), and I thought it would be a good chance to demonstrate to a different audience how work on Wikisource. It would be nice if you did more than contribute one image (which I found last night to be only half of a two sided sheet deposited in the archive). There is a link to a restricted access Nature journal article that you might be able to put your hands on, and there are many transcription projects that can be set up using the instructions on Author talk:John Gould, and I have set up one of those transcription project (size of these volumes seems to be a problem). John Vandenberg (chat) 03:42, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm the father, it's my job to nag. For the record, I was referring to myself as a Nazi, not you. Anyways, need your vote by tomorrow. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: William Lyon Mackenzie King 20:28, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

The Bhagavad GitaEdit

Hey Jay, you introduced me to wikisource on my talk page. If I wanted to delete the Bhagavad Ghita material, and substitute it with material that I got on the Sacred Texts archive; how would I go about doing it. Seeing as how that entry is not even the Bhagavad Gita. I'm assuming I would have to nominate it for deletion? Or how would that go. Let me know. Thanks. Lighthead þ 23:29, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

What is your source material so I can help. Lighthead þ 04:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
If I help you out which source should I work with Gutenberg or Sacred Texts? Lighthead þ 06:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
The thing is I looked at the text you provided here on wikisource; and it looks like you tweaked it by changing the words to make it more reader-friendly, should I do the same thing when I put it on? I don't know I'm new to this wiki... Lighthead þ 07:36, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
So I added the first chapter of the Gita. I'm going to try to do one chapter a day. So... Lighthead þ 23:02, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcomeEdit

Hi John. Wikisource is rather new to me so I'm not sure how much time I will spend here. On Wikipedia I spend a lot of my time either working on templates or translating articles from the German and Dutch wikis - so if there is any way I can be of similar help here, just ask! 52 Pickup 14:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the further info. It looks like there's a lot to do here. I'll see where I can fit in. Some points of interest so far that I would like to work on in some way:
  • How Wikisource and Wikipedia interact: At WP:RS and WP:CITE there is no mention of Wikisource at all. If we cannot freely use WS articles as part of WP then WS is not exercising its full potential.
  • Providing access to (translations of) non-English documentation: Given that I now live in Germany instead of Australia, I find that I can be more useful writing Germany-related articles; I have no access to non-electronic Australian media, and the Aussie bunch at WP already do such a fine job. The problem is that there are very few usable English-language sources related to Germany - with the exception of the period 1933-1945 for which there is more than enough - so I tend to use a lot of German-language sources. This was an issue raised at a recent FAC of mine. If we can provide reliable translations here (in the absence of official translations) that would be accepted as a reliable source at WP, then it would make things a lot easier for me.
  • Article organisation: After browsing through some of the articles and categories here, things look a little disjointed in some place. Maybe there is some way to further streamline article placement, standardisation, categorisation and assessment.
Thanks for letting me know about Wikimedia Australia. I've signed up over there, although I'm not sure how involved I can be since I no longer live there - although I'll be sure to return one day.
And yes, I have heard someone say "mirror eggs". But I've also seen more than enough cases of English-speakers making similarly silly mistakes in German (made quite a few myself), so it all levels out in the end. 52 Pickup 09:39, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Journal Of William EllisEdit

I uploaded Journal Of William Ellis from an external site.[8] Do we acknowledge this in some way? Wsiegmund 17:18, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for the welcome, Jayvdb. Much appreciated. -- 09:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for the DJVU demo, John. That's a very handy feature. Also, thanks for the other stylistic changes you've made to the treaty article. Now I have a much better idea about how things are done here - I read the Style Guide, but demonstrations are always far more effective. Much appreciated. - 52 Pickup 21:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the belated welcomeEdit

It got me thinking "wikisource? It's been a while year since I was there..." Marc Kupper 01:26, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

My recent editsEdit

Feel free to take off where I left off...source on the talk page of the index and on my userpage, just need to make subpages and go. But it gets boring after a while. :) giggy (:O) 02:40, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Short on time, but I've used the TOC at for subpages. giggy (:O) 05:03, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Second Computer Inquiry and ACLU v. NSAEdit

John, thanks for your feedback. I will be glad to give some assistance to the ACLU v. NSA project. I may be able to help with formatting, based on what I've been doing in the Second Computer Inquiry. I've added a bit of embellishment/clarification to your Wikipedia entry on the Second Computer Inquiry. Once I've finished with the text of the WS I'll probably go back and add to it. Also, thanks for reviving the deleted Wikipedia article; see the note I added to the logo page. unsigned comment by Mdswbkq (talk) 18:43, 1 May 2008.

Thank you; and no worries - it is the least I can do. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:47, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


Thought you might find this amusing, adminstats / editcount for ya here :) SQLQuery me! 02:40, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for Welcome Note + HelpEdit

Hello John, Many thanks for your welcome note. I decided to change the title of my first article here. The old title was "Israeli Supreme Court Decisions - House Demolitions" - that was too general and did not accurately reflect the text. So I've created the same text with the more appropriate title Israeli Supreme Court decision on Aqaba demolition. Now how do I delete the old one? Eventually, I'd like to create a whole library of Israeli Surpreme Court decisions on many different topics. I would deeply apprciate advice on how to set that up. I am a lawyer licensed both in Israel and the U.S. so I believe I am qualified to take up this project. However, as you see, I'm learning the ropes of this site so I do need some help. Cheers, 15:59, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi JohnEdit

Thanks for your notes.

Re: Theognostus and Hippolytus

From the sources I consulted, Ante Nicean Fathers includes all extant material from the two minor writers I linked into it.

As such we would not be linking to a subset of the known corpus and so not defrauding readers that way.

However, I can appreciate that we may gain access to better sources — the editio princeps perhaps! It's just a matter of time.

Access to multiple translations of Calvin, for example, would be an asset.

I'm sure whatever you've done will make sense and I will copy that in future.

Re: Free Bible

This is very ambitious. I don't know what will become of it. I suspect it is very long term. Even the worst Bible translations are very good (better than encyclopedias can be anyway). I can see great value for it if it is copied in languages other than English. I guess it could also answer any objection sceptics may have about the process of Bible translation. If a translation with few constraints compiled by anonymous editors accords with major translations, there's no conspiracy! ;)

But, practical considerations aside, anything that gets people reading the originals, talking about the meaning of the text of the Bible and so on is just excellent. Access to the originals sparked the Reformation as you know. I wonder if a WikiBible could have a social impact like that?

I already have a translation of 1 Corinthians 7 that I made from NA27 that I will format and adapt to WikiBible conventions. I have a chapter of Isaiah I did for a sermon as well. I'll do all the remaining chapters of the Song eventually, since I'm learning it by heart in Hebrew for my dissertation. If I have time, and if the project is turning out well, I will contribute widely I imagine.

It will be interesting to observe development of translations for difficult, but non-controversial, verses too.

I wonder how policy will evolve.

Anyway, those are some thoughts I'm having atm, hope they are relevant to your thinking.

Cheers John, Alastair Haines 11:45, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

PS I've to set up Theognostus again. I tried simply linking to ANF rather than redirect, but I think I'm still doing wrong. The talk page said it was User talk! The only reason I'm trying to add something is that the Wikipedia template links into nothing atm. I'd rather link to a parent location from 'pedia, than to a subpage of ANF. Alastair Haines 12:00, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Perfect. Understood. Page creation (when needed) is Author:Xxxxxx for Authors. Authors, Books and Users have different namespaces, User is the default. Author page is parent to both Books authored and to relevant biographical Books. Alastair Haines 13:22, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry to keep bugging you. Any chance of placing a translation of the Japanese of Wikipedia:All your base are belong to us here at Wikisource? I've placed the translation on my user page here at Wikisource. Alastair Haines 15:41, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
No, that text is not in the public domain. You would need to ask the copyright holder to release that excerpt into the public domain (and forward their consent to, however, Wikisource doesnt take excerpts, so it would need to be a rather large section of text for Wikisource to consider it acceptable. John Vandenberg (chat) 16:39, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
That makes sense John. Somewhat disappointing but fair's fair.
Thanks for the inside peek regarding Wiki source projects ... readily available free access to manuscripts is what every scholar of ancient literature longs for. Actually, I made a list of New Test papyri at pedia, and wrote up some of them. Did the same for the Dead Sea Scrolls. When I think about it, I've been trying to create a Wikisource of mss of the Bible within pedia. But now you've shown me where this really belongs in the overall Wiki scheme of things.
The step of deciphering the handwriting of mss is non trivial. There are other issues I've mentioned regarding quality control, but I don't really understand them myself yet.
When I write from ancient sources I try to give people as much of them as possible, this project would facilitate that tremendously, whatever its limitations. It's radical.
Sorry if I ruffle your feathers, btw. I know I tend to get involved in some controversial topics. Thanks for the tip-off. I'm so used to gender debate though, that the discussion I'm hoping to start won't surprise or disappoint me. Or maybe it will, but it's better to get it clear sooner rather than later. And sooner probably means more than six months of to-ing and fro-ing, and hopefully making friends in the process. We'll see.
I know Dovi passingly well from interaction at Wikipedia:Hebrew Bible. I think we get on well. I did over-react to something recently though, not realising Dovi had a hand in it. He can look after himself though.
I'm going to be less active for the next couple of weeks — deadlines to meet. But I can feel my focus shifting to the source projects in ancient languages already.
Thanks again for all the info. Cheers. Alastair Haines 17:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Got the software links and the description. Will explore. Couldn't find Russell and Whitehead, wikipedia:Principia Mathematica, 1913. Will try uploading out-of-copyright English translations here first (Augustine, Calvin), then learn the ropes re ancient language texts. wikipedia:Moore Theological College has the complete set of wikipedia:Discoveries in the Judean Desert. Sydney Uni must have Greek and Latin texts of many writers. At the very least, anything I track down for my own research, I'll look to share with others via Wikisource. Alastair Haines 07:11, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

legal case naming conventionEdit

I responded to you on my talk page. Not certain whether you were intending for me to weigh in at Talk:ACLU v. NSA Opinion also. Sometimes, Wikisource editors have included the citation to the published opinion in the page name where necessary to avoid ambiguity—so, for example, we have U.S. v. Kember 648 F.2d 1354 (1980) and U.S. v. Kember 685 F.2d 451 (1982). I’m personally not a big fan of doing it that way, but it does provide at least one basis for differentiating between two cases with the same name. Tarmstro99 19:09, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


Hey John! I was out for a few days, but hope to continue with the good work this week. Could you take half a minute and look at Letter to Arthur Brentano. There's a word added by the author which I couldn't understand, marked as [undertermined], and need a second pair of eyes to decipher it. Thanks! - Mtmelendez 15:17, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Archive your talk page!! :)

My best guess is "continue", but that doesnt seem correct in the context. btw, this has been promoted to {{new texts}} so someone will no doubt offer suggestions if left as [undertermined].
p.s. I plan to archive in a few days, to coincide with a planned wikibreak. John Vandenberg (chat) 15:27, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Yep, it looks like "continue", but I suppose King would've noted the redundancy of the words in the same sentence. Thanks. - Mtmelendez 15:33, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


As you suggested, I created category:plosone Anonymous101 16:59, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


Other than being a newly submitted text, what criteria is there for being placed on {{new texts}} Anonymous101 18:30, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Wind in the WillowsEdit

Thank you, John. Of course, you are right! - --Zephyrus 08:33, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Does this template exist on It might be useful so that links to the scanned pages don't recover the text, will I create it? Would it be sufficient as is?- --Zephyrus 10:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I have tried and put these links on the left (and the number of the pages that Philippe has programmed on fr-ws). Do you think it would be better to have them on the right?- --Zephyrus 16:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. ThomasV was telling me about these improvements on John Vandenberg (chat) 22:20, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Message on my talk pageEdit

Thanks, Jayvdb. I'm just here to help out with anything and everything. I'd edit the MediaWiki namespace if I was a sysop here but I feel there's no point asking for temporary adminship just to maintain the username and title blacklists. As regards authors well, Shakespeare and Jonson, and Simon Armitage are some of my favourite authors. Hope this helps! Thanks, AP aka --Kelsington 12:35, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

  • I'm thinking of adding the text of Denise Levertov's poem The Thought-Fox here, although copyright issues are my main worry. Please can you tell me where the correct policy page is on this?? Thanks, AP aka --Kelsington ((talk)) 12:38, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Feature request related to bot edits flooding your inboxEdit

You might be interested in issue 13992: "Add user preference to opt out of email notification for bot edits (similar to $wgEnotifMinorEdits)". —{admin} Pathoschild 20:35:49, 06 May 2008 (UTC)

Israeli Public Domain SourceEdit

Hello John After doing some research I have found the source in Israeli law that puts all judicial decisions, laws and regulations in the public domain. It is Section 6 of Israeli Copyright Law and here is the English translation:

6. Official Publications

Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 4, there will be no copyright pertaining to laws, regulations, Knesset publications or judicial decisions of a court or of a governmental agency that has adjudicative powers by law.

Can you create a template from this and include it on the decision that I have already uploaded Israeli Supreme Court decision on Aqaba demolition? And explain how I use it from now on in uploading decisions? I would like to provide English translations of the Israeli Supreme Court on different subjects so I think we should create Israeli Supreme Court as an author, and then somehow create directories - criminal law, human rights, civil law, adminstrative law, etc. Many thanks, 17:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanations. Can you slightly revise the Israeli public domain license to make it a bit more accurate? Instead of "This work is in the public domain because it is a work that are not copyright according to section 6 of the Israeli Copyright Law..." it should read:

"This work is in the public domain because it is a work that is not subject to copyright, according to Section 6 of the Israeli Copyright Law..." Regarding translation license, I will apply CC-BY-SA. I agree with your idea to strive for consistency, so if the works of the other Supreme Courts are tagged as "Supreme Court of US" "Supreme Court of Canada" let's keep the same format for Israel, i.e. Supreme Court of Israel. Best, 04:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


Noob-y question: What does the OCR button do?

You were right about the Sacred Texts, I'm going to upload the source during the day. Thanks! - Mtmelendez 12:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Principia MathematicaEdit

You are a star John! :D

It's such a good book, and a thrill that the first edition is already out of copyright.

Thank you. Alastair Haines 04:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

That was me, actually. Must've forgotten to check "stay logged in" or something, I guess. --❨Ṩtruthious ℬandersnatch❩ 15:13, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

The Solar SystemEdit

Would it make more sense for us to break this down into the six individual lectures, and include a "--Lectures--" category? I always hate seeing "compilations" listed as a single work. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Percival Lowell 05:45, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking along those lines as well. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:52, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Any chance this'll be completed before the 17th? :D Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Percival Lowell 10:08, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
No. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:31, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Question about headerEdit

Hi, thanks for welcoming me. If you have a moment, you might check Half a Life-time Ago to see if I've done everything correctly.

I went to Help:Adding texts, and it said (copied from the source code)

At the top of the page, add the {{header2}} template (see the documentation for usage).

When I click on header2, it takes me to Template:Header, not to Template:header2. So I just copied from Header, to add the information to the top of the Elizabeth Gaskell story. Was that correct? Thanks. Ashton1983 13:56, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Ashton1983 15:00, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

American Poetry 1922Edit

I have a copy of American Poetry 1922 that was being prepared for Project Gutenberg by Distributed Proofreaders. It's sort of in a limbo, for various reasons, but the text has been fully proofread. Can I upload the whole document here?--Prosfilaes 14:30, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Why does it space out poetry?Edit

Everytime that I add a page of poetry and save, it puts a blank line between every line of poetry, one that has to be manually deleted later. Why does it do this and how do I stop it from doing this?--Prosfilaes 15:25, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your help todayEdit

I appreciated working in collaboration; it's rare I get to work so directly with someone on something like this.--Prosfilaes 15:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

First names, last namesEdit

Hi, I created Author:Jean Webster, and Category:Authors-W seems to think it begins with J, rather than W. What have I done wrong? Ashton1983 19:22, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, um, ignore my question, please. I see what I did wrong![9] (Crawling away in embarrassment.) Ashton1983 21:30, 11 May 2008 (UTC)


Hi there, thanks for everything. As a favour, I'll wikify some of that Proofs of Jesus Christ that you tagged. The syntax is a bit different here, so I'm not sure how much I'll do. Thanks again. --Kyoko 02:05, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Firebrand vs. Winn's FirebrandEdit

Yes, you are correct that Firebrand is a different publication than Winn's Firebrand. Thanks for linking those. Kaldari 18:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Sacred Books of the East 3Edit

John, thanks for proofreading what I've done at Sacred Books. Now I have a standard to follow when uploading. Thanks! - Mtmelendez 15:03, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Hand of NergalEdit

Regarding the Hand of Nergal, I'd just assumed it was free to post as it was an untitled fragment by REH and not the actual story finished by Lin Carter later on. As all of the other Robert E. Howard stories are posted here I just assumed that the same was true of this one. unsigned comment by (talk) 12:53, 14 May 2008.

Kipling VerseEdit

I read the following only today: If you have a general interest in Kipling works, we have two ongoing transcription projects: Author:Rudyard Kipling#Transcription projects. e.g. Page:Q Horati Flacci Carminum librum quintum.djvu/11 John Vandenberg (chat) 23:13, 16 March 2008 (UTC) Retrieved from "" Please let me know the titles that need to be entered. I have some of the work in ASCII format from OCR scans. I now store text in Unicode UTF8. --Steve 04:27, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Mark Twain Transcription ProjectEdit

I tried adding a page to the Abroad with Mark Twain and Eugene Field project (11) but I couldn't get the formatting to work. The entire page is supposed to be in italics, but I ended up with a mess and finally deleted the italics formatting. The text should be okay, though, subject to typos and human error, so I left it up. Sbh 17:35, 15 May 2008 (UTC)


I tried already, but it says »Login error: The name "Fellow Readers" is too similar to the existing account "Fellow readers". Please choose another name.« --Fellow readers 08:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Hm, in this case, please ask one of our bureaucrats, User:BirgitteSB or User:Zhaladshar, to rename your account. It's best if you do so on the admin's noticeboard. Please mention your intended account name and that error message you got. This information helps in processing your request speedily. Thank you! Oh, and BTW, you can use the "+" tab to start a new discussion in the right place (i.e., at the bottom of the talk page).--GrafZahl (talk) 09:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

New workEdit

Just got a hold of several documents in the PDF format, see IRS investigation of Al Capone. How can I convert them to normal images so we can work on them? Maybe form an index? I've searched the net, and if we successfully transcribe them we may be the only website to have them transcribed for now. Also, the PDF image allows for highlighting and copying, but it sometimes doesn't copy well because of the originals' conditions. Any suggestions on that? It would speed up the process if we could just copy and the proofread. - Mtmelendez 15:30, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you!Edit

Thank you for your warm welcome and support. You folks seem really nice!

Please don't hesitate to inform me if I commit any faux pas as far as my use of templates, etc. Webbbbbbber 16:14, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

1911 Encyclopædia Britannica maintenance taskEdit

Hello Jayvdb. There's a section on JVbot's user page dedicated to the request for 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica bot maintenance. If this is still current, shall I mark it as assigned to JVbot? I was going to assign it to my bot before I noticed yours had started on it. —{admin} Pathoschild 22:01:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I am only working on the cross-validation aspect of this task. I wont be working on other aspects of the requested task. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:28, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Lovecraft editingEdit

First of all, thank you for the welcome and unlocking that one text so I could work on it. It is now done. I will be going through the rest of the stories. I would ask you though, if you can, of course, because I can't seem to find out how, to move certain pieces, to rename them. If you'll take a took at the main HPL listing, you'll note these stories that I have provided proper names for as links, but I'd prefer to have the names themselves reflect that: Celephaïs, The Dreams in the Witch-House, Herbert West—Reanimator, The Moon-Bog, and Under the Pyradmids. Thank you, Jmj713 16:37, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

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