User talk:John Vandenberg/Archive/2009-2010

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Thank youEdit

Hey, thanks for the welcome. If I find some neat stuff that could be of public value and is public domain materials I will try to find the time to add it here on this project. Cheers, Cirt (talk) 07:24, 11 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Byron v. Rajneesh Foundation InternationalEdit

No worries, thank you for your help and positive improvements to this page. Cirt (talk) 10:25, 11 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

hi thanks for ze welcomeEdit


Mr Jayvd , How Do I start a project page ? and please do help and contribute to the audio poetry of John Keats IDangerMouse (talk) 16:52, 12 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Before starting a project, start a new discussion at WS:S, and our contributors will give you feedback and help you get it started if it is a good idea. John Vandenberg (chat) 22:11, 12 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hi John,

I finally figured out how to get to work (dug through the script and realized it needed some of the DjvuLibre executables which weren't in the same directory :) ). But I was wondering if there were a way to throttle the script. I tried the usual "-putthrottle:" command but it called it an unknown argument. I don't want to flood WS with text uploads so I was wondering if there were another way. Thanks.—Zhaladshar (Talk) 18:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nevermind. It looks like the script extracts the text first then uploads it all later. The upload is throttled like desired.—Zhaladshar (Talk) 18:12, 13 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Need your scripty helpEdit

Hey Jayvdb! If you have a chance can you pop on IRC. I know your on a wikibreak, but due and I have been working on a new OCR program. We could really use your help. I'll be online most of today. --Mattwj2002 (talk) 22:34, 13 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thoughts about keywordsEdit

Hi John, I'm taking lots of fun with my bot. So I'm beginning to think about an old puzzling topic: keywords.

  1. how to assign automatically a set of consistent keywords to wiki entries?
  2. how to use the plain search engine to find keyword-matched entries (one keyoword, of, much better, a set of them), without any update of the basic wiki software?

I've got an idea about a way to solve both the sides of the puzzle, but I don't waste your time now: can you tell me if there's about some good talk, just to go deeper into the matter? Thanks! --Alex brollo (talk) 06:44, 14 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I dont know of any good discussion about keywords. mw:Extension:MetaKeywordsTag might be useful.
Keywords is something that other projects might also need; a discussion at meta:Meta:Babel would be good. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:11, 14 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just some outlines of my idea (it's absolutely different from MetaKeywordsTag).
  1. I tested the search engine; it looks for single, complete words or sets of complete words (ignoring the last caracter in it.source). Imagine to add a standard prefix do keywords: i.e. kwhorsemanship for horsemanship. Try to search kwcavallo or kwAutoreDante into Utente: namespace on it.source: you'll get only 1 page as a result.
  2. Now, imagine to add a list of prefixed keywords into categories. A bot could copy them into all linked pages, coupled with the category name. Something like this:

[Category:Books, kwbooks] [Category:Horsemanship, kwhorsemanship] [Category:Works by Xhenophon, kwAuthorXenophon]

Finished :-). Looking for equestrian works of xenophon, "kwAuthorXenophon kwHorsemanship" will find equestrian works of Xenophon only (not the historical ones). If the list of keywords into a category will be changed, the bot will find the old string from the name of the category and will replace it with the new one.

I'll post my idea on MetaBabel just after some comment by you! --Alex brollo (talk) 12:11, 14 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think you want category intersection. i.e. the ability to search for works in multiple categories. This is being worked on. See w:Wikipedia:Category intersection
John Vandenberg (chat) 12:19, 14 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
YES thanks! I'll study deeply that article, to see if there's something new in my idea. At a first lokk, there's nothing new. But I'ver to read and think much more! --Alex brollo (talk) 15:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I read the links, I discovered lots of unknown features of search tool, but... my idea seems really much more powerful and comprehensive. I'll think a little more about, then I'll open a talk into meta:Meta:Babel as you suggested. --Alex brollo (talk) 19:28, 14 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I posted my idea into meta:Meta:Babel; the first answer is very difficult to understand, very exoteric. Nevertheless I presume that my idea perhaps hes been not so clearly stated, therefore not completely understood. While waiting for other opinions, another fresh idea for you.... my bot Alebot can read its own talk page, and to reply to the sender with a courtesy message or with a real answer, if it understands a query posted to it. Try - if you like - to post a single-paragraph message containing the keyword "read " and a plain wikilink to an author of Autore: namespace of it.source like [[Autore:Dante Alighieri]]. Sign your message to get the answer. Obviuosly this is just the beginning, but you can imagine that there are few limits both in understanding questions, and to do complex jobs. --Alex brollo (talk) 17:39, 16 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

U.S. v. Croft 124 F.3d 1109 C.A.9 (Or.), 1997Edit

I added a document on a federal appeals court case, related to the prior one, if you wanted to take a look. Cirt (talk) 16:36, 14 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've made a few fixes, and created a redirect United States v. Croft to it, but now that I think about it, actually that should be a dab page? John Vandenberg (chat) 04:44, 15 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, not just yet, as this is the appeals page of the case, there must be lots of other documents as well. And so when there are those other documents here at this project, we could change that page to an index page of the history of the case. Cirt (talk) 08:25, 15 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

pointless tagEdit

Discussion at User talk:Eclecticology#pointless_tag John Vandenberg (chat) 14:10, 15 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Would appreciate your inputEdit

I would appreciate your input on my texts added to Wikisource, to make sure my additions are compliant with site policy. The most recent document I added, Message to Scientology, has recently been nominated for proposed deletion. The author has released the document and video to public domain verified via OTRS, and it is a notable text that has been directly cited and discussed in many secondary sources and mainstream media publications. Cirt (talk) 18:36, 20 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Check your email. :) Cirt (talk) 11:46, 21 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hey, was just wondering if it would be possible to automate the Welcome template that appears for an anonymous user, resolving their country of origin from their IP address -- and then welcoming them and pointing them towards, for example, "Salaam and Welcome, (normal template text), you may also be interested in checking out Wikisource:Pakistan, Category:Pakistan and Category:Works originally in Urdu" or something? Possible with refinement? Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: e. e. cummings‎. 01:24, 22 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Templates cant parse the IP address, so it is impossible with only templates. A bot could do it, and that sounds like a good idea for other projects too. there is a bot; try asking on the talk page. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:31, 22 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Are printed transcripts from Hansard of statements made in the parliament of the United Kingdom and speeches by various government officials in their official capacity acceptable to add to Wikisource? Here are two links I am specifically referring to: [1] and [2]. Would appreciate input on this. Thank you, Cirt (talk) 02:39, 22 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

They are acceptable, in the same way that Congressional Record is. However, more recent ones may still be covered by copyright. We havent clarified the copyright situation of official records of the UK - i.e. who owns the copyright on the words spoken in the House of Commons ? If it is the government that owns the rights, the UK does permit redistribution but the terms are not compatible with the GFDL. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:50, 22 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
When you say "more recent", what specific time frame do you mean? And as to the second part, how can we get further specific clarification on what is and is not okay to add from Hansard ? Cirt (talk) 02:53, 22 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Anything printed in the Hansard is acceptable according to WS:WWI, however if it affects a living person we are starting to lean towards expecting pagescans if there is any doubt about the authenticity.
Anything pre 1958 printed in the Hansard is acceptable per {{PD-UKGov}}. The copyright status of text in the Hansard during UK crown 50 year copyright term is a bit of a mystery to me at the moment.
Anything pre-1923 published anywhere is acceptable per {{PD-1923}}.
John Vandenberg (chat) 03:05, 22 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you! Cirt (talk) 03:28, 22 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New texts reduxEdit

Replied on my talk page. Cirt (talk) 13:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hey, just spotted Electrical Experimenter at Wikisource:Periodicals while adding Collier's Weekly myself; thought I'd encourage/remind you of our current standard practice for such pages such as New York Times -- in my opinion, a much cleaner way of handling any magazine/newspaper. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: e. e. cummings‎. 01:18, 28 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

When we do Telsa, that page will be given a make over for free. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:05, 28 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ignore my signature, Tesla began several hours ago! Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: e. e. cummings‎. 02:43, 28 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]


This edit correct? He seems to be mid-19th century, though from the "notes" section and non-existant Wiki, I'm going to have to poke around to see if he's even real...once I'm not on a work computer. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Nikola Tesla‎. 23:27, 1 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It might have been correct at the time, but the wording has since. I think it is incorrect now; w:Albanian_pederasty#Poetic_and_literary_references has one text and I am sure there will be more. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:32, 1 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hang in there !!!!Edit

I think you are getting a raw deal on your run for ArbCom. You are the best man for the job!

I hope things turn around, you deserve better. Epousesquecido (talk) 03:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks! Fighting this isnt what I had planned for this week, but I will try to find the time. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Some questionsEdit

Hi! You were kind enough to provide me the welcome message, so I thought I'd bug you with a few questions dealing with the A History of Sanskrit Literature ^_^.

  1. In the Table of Contents I've included a line on the preface, that is missing in the original printing, and documented that adition on the Notes section in the infobox on the talkpage. Can this be tolerated? I've noticed that in some other works that also lack preface included in the ToC, that the preface is put on the main entry in its entirety, before the page with ToC is transcluded. But this second approach seems more cluttering to me..
  2. pages 455-472 are two-column index that I haven't added yet. Is there a way to emulate the two-column layout in wiki markup, and that would fine work when continuously transcluded?
  3. pages 473-46 are a bunch of I really obliged to waste time adding these? Am I allowed to delete these pages from the DjVu file and then reupload the file on the Commons?

Many thanks --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 11:25, 6 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Lucky me! Here are some quick answers:

  1. The page should match the image, but, small improvements like this are OK.
  2. You can use a table, and then wrap the table syntax in <noinclude> so that it doesnt display as a table when it is transcluded.
  3. you can skip pages that are not needed. Maybe someday someone will want to do them. (I have created pages for a few advertisements - they are sources, and useful for someone researching about business and marketing in the 1900s)

Bug me again if you need more answers, or you want me to demonstrate these ideas. John Vandenberg (chat) 11:44, 6 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

court documentsEdit

Hello, thank you for the welcome on my Wikipedia page. I followed your invitation to look around this project as well, and I do have a question: is it possible to add court documents (declarations, judgments, affidavits etc) to Wikisource? There does not seem to be a category for this and such material is not really a "work of the United States federal government". I would be able to provide quite a lot of such material. Proximodiz (talk) 19:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Replied at User talk:Proximodiz
John Vandenberg (chat) 22:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]


John, I will use your time off to get the CL cleaned up. It is 10 year old technology and needs some sprucing. COuld you be more specific on the deep link? I should have that support. I will be exploring the chat and message methodology in the meantime. Scott Braswell


Hi john. im new to wikipedia and wikisource, and i was curious as to why you deleted the Wikisource page for Finnegans Wake. Did it have to do w/ copyright issues or was the page subpar? I was considering recreating the page since the website that readers are redirected to is kind of hard to read. --SDedalus91 (talk) 01:17, 16 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The page was previously only a "redirect" to Author:James Joyce, which means it didnt have any text. Please dont create "Finnegans Wake" Thanks for checking. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:36, 16 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Argh; I just did a copyright check and it isnt doesnt appear to be public domain in the United States. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:40, 16 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It isnt copyright in Canada, which means you can add it on wikilivres, a Canadian companion to Wikisource, and we can then link to the page on that wiki. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ok, thats good to know. I'll try creating it soon then.


Couldn't we automate the textinfo template to appear automatically on the talk page of any work tagged with {{incomplete}} ? Could even grab a name or two from page history for contributors list. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Nostradamus‎. 00:52, 18 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Need more coders. At present, we need to focus on building tools that do very large chunks of work that a human cant, or wont, do. Also, editing one page based on the contents of a different page isnt easily done with the bot framework. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:44, 18 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for the welcomeEdit

Hi Thanks for the warm welcome, I may consider re-nominating myself for admin at some point in the future but I'm going to take some time to re-familiarise myself with wikisource & some of the new policies, etc before then. I also need to ensure that I'll have the time to devote to the project. AllanHainey (talk) 13:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Djvu text loader botEdit

Dear John, I'm playing with my bot and I enjoy it. As I told you, I'm working about "OCR post-elaboration"; but I can't find the script of your bot, that uploads text content of a djvu file. I'd like to use the output of that file offline, to fix some typical mistakes of OCR before creating a Page and uploading the text into it. Can you help me? Thanks!--Alex brollo (talk) 06:53, 7 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply] is the information page about the script. Follow the instructions on m:pywikipediabot to obtain my script and make it work. There are some localisations within the script that will need 'it' values. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:24, 7 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks John. In the meantime I took a better look to Sourgeforge docs and I discovered command-line utilities like djvutxt, and I guess that the python script calls those routines with appropriate parameters to have a one-page-at-a time output.
But at a closer look to Interner Archive files I found too those beautiful .... djvu.xml or ...djvuxml.xml files and now I've a running small python script to extract all what I need from them... passing them to my "OCR-postelaboration" scripts. Problem solved! --Alex brollo (talk) 10:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you are parsing those djvu xml files in python, it would be very nice to see your code merged into, as the python code is currently using the text emitted from the "djvutxt" command, which is sub optimal. John Vandenberg (chat) 11:22, 10 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
While running, my Python code is really rough and primitive, and it is written for an unusual interactive use; the best I can do is to post it as-it-is to be read and fixed before any use by some good programmer. I'll post it into my user page, please ask to any good (and patient) python programmer you know here to take a look and use it as he/you want. --Alex brollo (talk) 23:47, 12 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In the meantime: I wrote some templates to simplify the code of textual version of proofread works. You can see the living code into the first entries of it:Delle Frascherie. I.e, all the needed code for the page it:Delle Frascherie/L’Abati al Libro, the second item of the book, is this:
{{Delle Frascherie/Auto|2|{{#section:Template:Delle Frascherie/Pagine|2}}}}
If you like, I could implement here the needed templates on one of my works, just to let you see quietly as they run. --Alex brollo (talk) 15:37, 8 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Implementing it here would be a good idea; then everyone here can see what you are suggesting. Note that I am mostly busy with English Wikipedia Arbcom these days, so I wont be making many recommendations here on Wikisource for a while. John Vandenberg (chat) 11:22, 10 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK! I'll try to implement all the stuff into The Modern Art of Taming Wild Horses. --Alex brollo (talk) 23:47, 12 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done. I'll report the test into Central Discussion page. --Alex brollo (talk) 08:17, 13 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

a requestEdit

Hi John, I would like to change my username Epousesquecido to Josette (my real name). I have already done it on Meta and I have requested it on Commons and Wikipedia. I could not find the page to request a name change here at WS. Could you please help? Thanks - Epousesquecido (talk) 19:34, 15 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I recommend that you ask one of the crats at WS:ADMIN on their talk page, or post the request at WS:AN. --John Vandenberg (chat) 02:28, 16 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, I posted my request. - Epousesquecido (talk) 05:31, 16 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New transcriptionEdit

Copied from [3]

Dear John,

Sorry to bother you, but I couldn't find an answer by perusing the chat channel... I',ve just finished this transcription. Unfortunately there were some logical problems involving transcriptions and translations that I tried to solve this way:

  • The book is a short anthology of Carducci's poems translated by M.W. Arms, so it simply can't be reproduced in simple pages with its title. I wanted to give both the poet and the translator their duly credit.

The structure of the book is

  • Introduction (by M.W. Arms)
  • Poems (writen by Carducci, translated by M.W. Arms)
  • Notes to the poems (by M.W. Arms)

I took these decisions:

  • I transcribed each poem and I assigned them to Giosue Carducci quoting the translator (e.g. Miramar)
  • I transcribed the notes and I trascluded them after each poem (viz. in Rome) without assigning them to any author
  • I transcribed the introduction, then I created Author:Mary Arms Edmonds (the real name of M.W. Arms) and .... I stopped! What page should contain that introduction? What title should be given to that page? should I create a page to host the notes too? I have been tinkering with wikicode quite carelessly, so after ending the transcription I would need an expert of internal policies to check my work. I put my work in your hands. Do with it what you believe, because I bet you're the best to do it. Have a good wikitime!

- εΔω 17:18, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Create Poems of Italy and Poems of Italy: selections from the Odes of Giosue Carducci, depending on whether disambigation is likely to be necessary, create an /Introduction subpage, and include a list all of the poems. See Best Russian Short Stories for a similar case. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  Done - εΔω 11:40, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
I have tried to hyper-hyperlink and transclude as properly as I could. I still see too little connection between Poems of Italy: selections from the Odes of Giosue Carducci and Index:Carducci - Poems of Italy.djvu (the [page] sidelinks are useful for single pages, but not for a general reference). if you see any room for improvement feel free as usual to overhaul my work. - εΔω 12:05, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
It looks good. Sometimes a link to the Index: page is added in the notes field, other times {{edition}} is placed in the notes field, and the link to the Index: page is placed in the {{textinfo}} block on the talk page. The French Wikisource has a tab which links to the index page; I quite like that approach. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:19, 29 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


I went ahead and created those docs: User:Rlevse#Wilson. Can you see how I did? Feel free to improve. Thanks. RlevseTalk


Could you explain the value of using {{hw}} to me? I ran across the template and have been using it for proofing, but I don't see the point of it. It doesn't seem to make it any easier to proof a page but rather just causes randomly placed line breaks in the Page namespace (see Page:Trenchard Tracts 074-124.djvu/4, for example). I saw that you created the template and hoped you might be able to explain why it's important, or point me in the direction of such information. Thanks! --Spangineerwp (háblame) 15:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Edit Page:Wind in the Willows (1913).djvu/110, and you will see that the text is broken at the end of each line as in the original. This makes it easier to proofread, and means our text more accurately represents the original.
A longer discussion about this template is at User_talk:Jayvdb/Archive/2008-4#Template:Hyphenated_word.
John Vandenberg (chat) 05:35, 1 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Okay, that makes sense. I don't think the advantage will be as great for the book I'm working on, since my edit windows look pretty hideous with all the {{ls}}, ref tags, and links to wikipedia. As a result I wasn't planning to proofread in edit mode, but maybe a little cleanup will make that more desirable. Thanks for the explanation! --Spangineerwp (háblame) 06:04, 1 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We need a software improvement so that newline characters display as new line characters when viewed in the Page namespace, so that line by line proofreading can be done in View mode. I initiated a discussion about that on WS:S last year sometime. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:10, 1 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for the Lancet articleEdit

Joseph Lister now has On the Antiseptic Principle of the Practice of Surgery in place. I think that either a science portal or a science WikiSource: is well overdue for lots of seminal papers by Pasteur, Newton, etc. I have asked AllanHainey if he could lend me a hand to send up one of them. Here's hoping. Thanks again. -- billinghurst (talk) 12:56, 1 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nice! Do you want any of the referenced articles. The March 23rd article sounds interesting. The French have lots of nice portals. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:12, 1 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Another brief translationEdit

Dear John,

Pardon my intrusion. As I saw a booklet with a poem of Pascoli's translated in English I couldn't resist. Here it is with its source. Just three little questions by an en.source eternal newbie:

  1. Is it better to chop the single page into fragments (on it. source we do it very often)? Judging by the unity of the poem I referred to keep it in one page.
  2. What about the traslator. It looks even more obscure than Mary Arms Edmunds, and we don't even have original texts by her. If she deserved an Author page what should I enclose as "work by her"? As for now I'd keep a red link until someone discovers some more writings of hers.
  3. What about the links to Pedia? In this case we have a peculiar theme, a famous Italian painter, depicted by Pascoli as witness of a miracle. Pascoli was very fond of birds and late Mediaeval art. In this poem links could be useful to get a grasp of the context, but they are not historically as needed as in Carducci's poems, so I halted my hands, understanding that links to Pedia should be the exception, not a rule. Maybe, if there are any internal sources abput Paolo Uccello (Catholic Encyclopedia? Something else I don't know?) they could be linked somehow.

After this upload I think I'll take a break here to put my hands on it.source where I left some transcriptions unfinished, so I won't be bothering you for some time. - εΔω 17:50, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Here are my answers to your three queries:
  1. It is usual to keep a short text on a single page.
  2. See Author:Ella Mary Edghill
  3. Add as many links as you can, if you think they are not controversial. See Catholic Encyclopedia (1913)/Uccello.
It will be a shame to see you go. Category:Works originally in Italian was growing quickly! ;-) John Vandenberg (chat) 04:36, 10 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Huh? Populating a category is quite easy if there are already many works originally in Italian ut uncategorized... and since I'm an Italian teacher (both motherlanguage Italian and teacher of Italian language and literature) and enjoying Hotcat, I just knew what to do. Now the category is much fatter :)
As for shame... don't fret. You'll see me back. I'm just wearing some wikihats at the same time (you should know wery well what I mean). If you need any information about Italian (but also Greek an Latin) matters here... drop a line on it. source and I'll fly! On the other hand I found #wikisource chatroom quite useless since I was seldom noticed, and I hate disturbing. :-| - εΔω 16:32, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for growing Category:Works originally in Italian. Does it.wikisource have a category like Category:Works by original language?
I havent been in #wikisource much lately because of internet troubles and trying to focus on Arbcom (yes, many hats), but I am regularly in there now. John Vandenberg (chat) 22:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
On it.source we have it: it:Categoria:Testi_per_lingua_originale, where translations from the English could be useful to check out. I already sync'ed it some months ago. - εΔω 10:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Threats to the peaceful observance of the bicentennialEdit

Unless someone volunteers to redact this, or finds a solid argument for PD, I don't see any choice but to delete it. Threats to the peaceful observance of the bicentennial per "To protect the legal interests of the Wikimedia Foundation, these will be deleted unless there are strong reasons to keep them within at least two weeks. If there is reasonable doubt, they will be deleted.". Jeepday (talk) 01:07, 19 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm backEdit

Dear John,

I told you I wouldn't beaway too long. I found a new task here. since I'm going to upload on it.source a translation fo Dora by Tennyson. The original here is missing, but that won't last long ;) I found this pearl. What about the pictures? Should they be added in the proofread version? And in the textual version? Obviously there's no haste at all, just understand my newbiness - εΔω 10:18, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Index:Dora 1887.djvu is ready.
It is your decision whether you want to include the images or not. See Page:A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force.djvu/14 and A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force/Trial and Error in World War I for an example of when it has been done. Page:A Specimen of the Botany of New Holland.djvu/14 is another.
However for Index:Wind in the Willows (1913).djvu we did not extract good images.
John Vandenberg (chat) 11:00, 24 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Missing parts of A Short Biographical Dictionary of English LiteratureEdit

For the missing pages of A Short Biographical Dictionary of English Literature, are they likely be around or do we have to source them anew? -- billinghurst (talk) 04:34, 4 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

They are on my disk, and basicly ready to upload. bug me incessantly until I upload them. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:36, 4 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
 -- billinghurst (talk) 05:22, 4 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

After action report for the M1A1 Abrams tank B-23Edit

Hi, John. Please take a look at this page. Parts of it are displayed as overlapping text. It also lacks a source reference and needs more complete categorization. -- LegalBeagle (talk) 00:30, 5 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have fixed the page, and you can see the source by clicking on the "[page]" link (which was previously obscured) which will take you to Page:Summary for B-23.png. --John Vandenberg (chat) 02:13, 5 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Cool! I'm going to add some categories. -- LegalBeagle (talk) 23:25, 5 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Javascript footerEdit

Dear Jay, I've seen that your header is doubled with a footer by your common.js. I don't know anything about javascript so I wanted to ask you: is it possible to export this functionality, and make another template (in italian wikisource) do the same thing, or it depends by the template Header itself? I guess I have to copy the js code and change the variables, but I don't know how. If you could give me any tips or links it could be helpful, thank you. --Aubrey (talk) 18:33, 11 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I will build a demo for you. see it:Discussioni_template:Capitolo#class_attribute
John Vandenberg (chat) 02:03, 12 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Really thank you. I hope I've done well. Really really thank you! --Aubrey (talk) 17:04, 12 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That is what I needed. John Vandenberg (chat) 22:16, 12 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Metadata extensionEdit

Dear Jay, sorry if I always bother you. I was just asking myself if someone is thinking about writing an extension to fill in the metadata for every book. It could just use th DublinCore and/or other metadata schemas. I'm not an expert at all, but using a formal metadata schema is an old dream of it.source, and before trying to develop a system with templates and bots I would like to know if there is anything in process. --Aubrey (talk) 10:58, 13 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I dont know of anything being developed along those lines. I would also like to see more established metadata being exposed; Dublin Core, Marc records, and MODS.
I would like to develop a MediaWiki extension to do this within the core software; time to do this is harder to find than time to dream ;-)
John Vandenberg (chat) 10:26, 17 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Eh eh, I believe. It was just a thought: now I'm actually studying in a master in Digital Library, so what before apperared to me more confused it's becoming clear. The whole Wikisource world has a big problem with metadata, as you perfectly know, and everyone is just developing is own way to catalog the books. I really hope to have time and competences to apply the Dublin Core to Italian Wikisource, for example, and I don't really know if is only a matter of labels or if we definetely need some software to do it. Anyway, thank you for the answer. I think is one of the little big things that separate us from "real librarians" (you know, they're really obsessed with metadata ;-)).
PS: have you finished with the monobook.js to create the footer of tl|Capitolo? Can I try it in my monobook? --Aubrey (talk) 02:01, 19 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Reply to PS: it isnt done yet. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New pageEdit

Moved the stuff to Page:Fort Wayne Journal Gazette Armenian Article.jpg. Thanks. MBisanz (talk) 21:31, 18 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The text has now been proofread, but needs to be verified by a user other than me...which could be you! ;-)
I have set up a mainspace page for it: Armenians Active in European War
John Vandenberg (chat) 04:14, 19 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


for the welcome. :) Ncmvocalist (talk) 06:49, 21 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Darwin YearEdit

Hi there John,
As you probably know 2009 is the Darwin Year. A couple of months ago I started working on the original version of On the Origin of Species (1859). There still is a little bit of text that needs to be copied on Wikisource (the Index; scroll to the bottom of the page), and, of course, it still needs proofreading. I thought it'd be pretty nice to have the book featured on the main page sometime this year. What do you think, is this this a good nominee for the collaboration of the week? diego_pmc (talk) 13:26, 28 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If we can find pagescans of the original from a site other than, we could tackle this as a "Proofread of the Month", and then Featured texts.
The reason we should avoid is the mess at commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Images from Darwin Online.
There are a lot of editions at; perhaps one of them is the one you desire?
John Vandenberg (chat) 22:53, 28 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I wasn't able to find the original edition on, but I found a facsimile on (click "Table of Contents" and after that choose what you want to see and you will be given a PDF of that chapter). diego_pmc (talk) 07:00, 3 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply] is a USA site, so it is free of the UK laws that allow to control redistribution. See background and about Robert J. Robbins.
The PDFs can be merged into a single PDF using tools like "PDFill Free Tools", and converted to a DJVU. (see Help:Djvu), or list this at WS:RT and ask user:Mattwj2002 to help create a DJVU. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:12, 3 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Okay, I'll take care of all of this soon. diego_pmc (talk) 18:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Here's the DjVu file: File:Origin of Species 1859 facsimile.djvu. diego_pmc (talk) 21:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Bible butcheryEdit

Please see this message, this edit, etc. — RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 09:26, 1 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That kept me busy for a while! :-) John Vandenberg (chat) 13:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
JE Source for Genesis is nominated for speedy deletion. I'll let you decide. Hesperian 11:32, 7 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Welcome-anon and mention of universal loginEdit

Hi J. Wondering whether it would be worthwhile mentioning the universal login as part of welcome-anon message. If it clutters the page, then probably not worth the confusion. -- billinghurst (talk) 23:52, 1 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If it is likely that people from other WMF projects wont be automatically given an account here, it would make sense to add it.
I know that most people do receive an automatic Wikisource account, but I have seen cases where it hasnt happened. I am not sure why not.
meta:Help:Unified login is the relevant help page.
John Vandenberg (chat) 00:30, 2 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Contribution to a Bibliography of Chess PeriodicalsEdit

Is there any more from this text? I'm not exactly sure what it is. Jude (talk) 14:00, 3 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, there's more; I fixed the Google link to get to the exact page. It's a small proto-bibliography of chess periodicals, published as an article in Notes and Queries.--Prosfilaes (talk) 22:11, 4 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Python & NconvertEdit

Dear John,

I'm exploring what can be done merging python and Nconvert (the command line tool by the creator of XnView). After only two days of tests, I wrote a routine to convert a pdf containing scanned images of two pages of a book, into properly renamed, excellent quality jpg files, each containing the image of one page of the book, ready to be merged into a djvu file by Djvu Solo.

Here the rough but running python code I wrote this night do to that:

import os
def opal():
    for i in range(0,20,2):
   # converting opal.pdf into opal-##.jpg where ## is 00, 02, 04... (opal.pdf is my test pdf file)
        script="nconvert -out jpeg -o opal-##.jpg -page # -q 80 -dpi 200 opal.pdf"
        print ns           #control print to know what python is doing
   # retailing left page from two-page jpg image and saving it
        script="nconvert -out jpeg -crop 0 0 892 1291 -o pari/opal-##.jpg opal-#.jpg"
        print ns           #control print to know what python is doing
   # retailing right page from two-page jpg image and saving it
        script="nconvert -out jpeg -crop 892 0 892 1291 -o pari/opal-##.jpg opal-#.jpg"
        print ns1          #control print to know what python is doing


This is only my rough test but... it's a promising one, and Edo (OrbiliusMagister) suggested to let you know about. Thanks for your attention! --Alex brollo (talk) 10:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Great to hear. Let me know when the code is well tested, and I will incorporate it into pywikipediabot. John Vandenberg (chat) 09:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
My tests went on, thanks for appreciation; I'll publish here the code as soon as I'll have a neat version of it. --Alex brollo (talk) 09:53, 21 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

IP blockEdit

John, apologies for the vandalism from this IP. Somehow the computers became an open proxy and botnet for some reason; but it has been fixed, and since you are checkuser (from what I've heard), I felt it was only courteous I reply to the blocking admin. Anyone on checkuser-l mailing list (well, that's what I was told was the official one!) is free to take a look at this conversation. Now the proxy is closed, there should be less trouble. I myself personally don't maintain this IP or network; but I am now going to ensure that trouble won't happen again. -- 08:48, 21 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Removal of accessEdit


Somehow my ID has been stopped from changing our Wikepedia entry for National Coastwatch Institution. I am a registered Trustee for that organisation and thus authorised to change and update it.

I dont know how this happened buy I have never ever misused this site or any other.

Kind regards Mike Newbold (Check also as trustee

G'day Mike.
I am sending you an email care of the drupal Contact Us form on the NCI website. Please respond at your convenience.
I sent it to the Secretary, as I couldnt see any tray with your name on it.
John Vandenberg (chat) 09:32, 29 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Martyred ArmeniaEdit

is entirely formatted and proofread.

I'd say it's solidly 99% done. It could however, use other eyes — typos and the like. Of course, the world needs to read things like this rather than watch their televisions. Cheers, Jack Merridew 16:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Now the hard part is to figure out who the translator is. Tasks like that can keep teenagers in libraries for months! John Vandenberg (chat) 06:09, 3 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The top says translated by C. Arthur Pearson which would seem a bit off; w:C. Arthur Pearson redirects to w:Sir Arthur Pearson, 1st Baronet i.e. the publishing house. The cover image doesn't actually say he's the translator, whom I expect was some low-level Arabic speaking employer or contractor. I dredged up the link;
which confirms the pub house and says nothing about the actual translator. Mebbe Fadix knows something. I may post him a note saying it's essentially done and we're trying to sort the details.
Also, I threw a few en:wp links in on a page or two; one, "Society of Union and Progress" I piped to w:Committee of Union and Progress which does talk about the committee having begun as a society; a redirect from w:Society of Union and Progressw:Committee of Union and Progress would seem appropriate; I refrained.
Cheers, Jack Merridew 08:07, 3 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
nb: Page:Martyred Armenia - El-Ghusein.djvu/58
gives the original printing shop the publisher used... Cheers, Jack Merridew 08:13, 3 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Add any info you find to Talk:Martyred Armenia, or the notes field.
Involving Fadix is a good idea; maybe he can suggest another related work we could work on; I'd like to push the Wikipedia El-Ghusein article along a bit in the next few weeks, and I intend to drop him a line about that and something else soon.
John Vandenberg (chat) 08:21, 3 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
might be a place to start. I'll let you take the lead w/Fadix then; no sense in spooking him. Cheers, Jack Merridew 09:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Martyred Armenia.pdf

Seen the PDV version link in your toolbox?

The results are not pretty and it seem related to the {{page}} template; probably other things too. Jack Merridew 16:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Australian copyright summation re Ice TVEdit

Hey John. Not sure whether you heard the ABC Radio National Law Report from today. Interesting summation of the High Court Ice TV case and the consequences for copyright law, especially the components about compilation of information and the ability to reproduce it. -- billinghurst (talk) 12:11, 5 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

a technical reviewEdit

see Template talk:Dropinitial-span‎ and the template implementation.

I'd like folks to have a better understanding of the rather low-level concern here. Specifically, that the use of div-elements is messing with the proper wrapping of text with p-elements. It will be a lot easier to review this while the old template is still in use. Unless I'm missing something, a lot of templates that use divs in this manner should be reworked. This would really apply to all projects to some degree.

Cheers, Jack Merridew 09:08, 6 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mailto routine readyEdit

Happy to let you know that it:Utente:Qualc1 wrote for me & Alebot a running py routine which can be used to send mails to users by Special:EmailUser page by a pybot. I'm testing it successfully. I see interesting perspectives about accepting queries and send their result by an interactive bot. --Alex brollo (talk) 06:24, 7 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Another bible oneEdit

Bible (Wikisource)/1 Enoch is nominated for speedy deletion, with rationale "from questionable sources, it looks more like a old translation then a new one as well, the creator of it was also banned". I'm not across this Slanders situation, and there is no way I could justify unilaterally deleting it based on that rationale. Can I handball it to you? Hesperian 23:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sure. I've added {{hangon}}, left the user a note, and asked them to email me. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
19 days now. Time to nuke it? Hesperian 03:41, 3 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done. Thanks for the reminder. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:23, 3 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Goodonyamate. Hesperian 04:35, 3 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


…and not just for the kind words at WS:ADMIN — for everything; the advice, the friendship, for renewing my faith in the wider wiki-community. And I mean it about the beers; Bintang isn't the best, but it works. Cheers, Jack Merridew 09:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No worries. It has been a pleasure. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:55, 26 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

blank pagesEdit

I had an idea. I figured people are wasting a lot of time validating blank pages. I figured you don't need to actually read a page to determine if it is blank or not; it suffices to glance at a small thumb. Low-hanging fruit and all that....

So I wrote a script to pull the first 5000 {{blank page}} transclusions out of the API, filter out the non-djvu images, filter out the pages that are already validated, and create a gallery of thumbs. The outcome is at User:Hesperian/Services/Gallery of allegedly blank images needing validating.

Now that I've done it, I'm not entirely sure how to make use of it. It is much bigger than I had originally comprehended, and has many more non-blank pages than I had expected. Probably the thing to do is to manually correct the non-blank pages (or take the easy way out and delete them, since they contain no useful information), and then validate the genuinely blank pages with a big AWB run.

One issue that leaps out on that page is that this time last year your bot posted OCR for Index:Latin for Beginners.djvu... but the djvu didn't have embedded text, so the bot ended up wrongly declaring blank all 357 pages. 350 of them remain uncorrected. Any reason why they shouldn't be deleted?

Hesperian 04:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Another source of errors is certain people who accidentally use {{blank page}} when {{blank line}} is intended; e.g. [4] Hesperian 04:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nice idea! I dont see why a bot cant delete all the blank pages for Index:Latin for Beginners.djvu If there are many that should be {{blank line}}, a bot could detect them by looking for other text on the page - if there is something, it should be {{blank line}} instead of {{blank page}}. Once a few eyes are cast over the rest, a bot can then validate them all. WS:BOTR is where request lie dormant. ;-) I'll be taking an arbcom break as soon as the date delinking case is closed. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:51, 27 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Okay, I've done up to and including the D's. So long as it is acceptable for me to delete the wrongly tagged pages as "G1-No meaningful content or history" (after checking the actual page content and history, of course) then it doesn't take long to weed out the ones that shouldn't be validated as blank. Hesperian 06:46, 27 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I wont stop you doing it by hand if it suits you. :-) John Vandenberg (chat) 06:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

When I get to L I will probably employ or request a bot... unless I'm really bored that day. Hesperian 07:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done. It's amazing what you can do with a spreadsheet, tabbed browsing, and half a brain.[5] Hesperian 02:06, 28 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hello, Jayvdb,

I didn't understand the point about the signature, it is my name in it: "Manoel Fernández". Is the name so ugly to scare people away? :) Manoel FernándezMsg 14:09, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, now I've seen the thing with "Usuário/User" and I fixed that in my preferences. Thanks for the help! It is great to be here helping in English language as well. All the best, Manoel FernándezMsg 14:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The acute in your surname might scare some English-only people, but we will let you keep it. ;-)
John Vandenberg (chat) 23:23, 29 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ancient salt mineEdit

Cheers, Jack Merridew 09:10, 30 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Great to see you are slowly making your way through it. If there are any foreign language bits you need help with, tag it with {{?|la}} where la is the language code. Once we have a pile of work, we will call in people with that language skill to fix them all. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:05, 30 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I just did another. It was simpler. This is a pain due to many of the footnotes extending to the next page. I have a new trick; when the page is open for editing, get the properties->url of the image and paste it into a new tab. This is the full-sized image so you can actually read it. I keep tabs open with all the relevant scans and also have Xcode up with the full OCR text and the current wiki-text page open for editing. Then there's the inline markup to indent quotes in the footnotes.
Angr did the Greek some time ago. Tagging it worked. There are something like 300 pages that need footnotes pasted over and it just took my two hours to do three.
I believe The works of Horace/Second Book of Epistles is all done and needs proofing and validating eyes; i.e. not mine. I'm part way through the next one. I'm not really why I started late in the work, but that's where I am.
Cheers, Jack Merridew 10:25, 30 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

US copyright vs Indian copyright for Indian workEdit

Hi J. Want to add some comment at Talk:Vivekachudamani (Swami Madhavananda) Thx. -- billinghurst (talk) 15:43, 1 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I am old and slow; Yann has already resolved this one. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:50, 3 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A Tale of Two BallantynesEdit

Hi. Sorry to bother you today. See Author talk:Robert Michael Ballantyne and the recent history of the author page. I've looked about and believe that the image you've transferred to Commons is of Mitchell, not Michael. There are a few redlinks pointing at Mitchell on ep:wp and mebbe he'll warrant and article there someday. I am a bit wary of the 4-edit account on en:wp that uploaded the image I've swapped-in, but it seems ok-enough. I believe what should happen here is the deleted local file should get a brief note in it about the mistake, the image be re-uploaded to Commons with a full name and the old one badnamed, and the several other uses out there be switched to the Michael image. The original of the second image on en:wp can be tagged as NowCommons. If you like what I'm suggesting, give me a nod and I'll sort it out. Best wishes, Jack Merridew 04:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It is quite possible that I have confused them. I can take any corrective action required on Commons, however I think billinghurst will be the best person to grapple with this one and tell me what needs to be done there, if anything. I've dropped him a note directing him here. John Vandenberg (chat) 14:18, 21 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Having a look at it. Just as I have been passing through the works looking, I keep finding things to transcribe, eg. obituary, and stuff. John: you are truly evil in knowing that I cannot help grabbing source data on the way passed! :-p billinghurst (talk) 13:54, 23 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Have to agree with JM's assessment. The initial uploaded photo is specifically sourced to a RootsWeb page that identifies as Robert Mitchell Ballantyne. An image search of Google shows the Commons:Robert Michael Ballantyne.jpg more aligns. The image is referenced and to a book that is most likely to contain an image (personal reminiscences). An image search of NPG shows a bearded man. I cannot see that the author would want to change the mental image that he seeks to portray. All indirect evidence, though reasonably convincing, and especially when considering the alternate image and its clean shaven nature (not very 19thC). -- billinghurst (talk) 16:11, 23 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Requested rename at Commons. Have updated foreign WP image links. Also found this Commons:File:Robert Michael Ballantyne by John Ballantyne.jpg. Not sure that the old WS link is worth worrying about. <shrug> -- billinghurst (talk) 16:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Request to look over my first submissionEdit

Hi John - some months ago you left a welcome template on my talk page, but I've only just now gotten around to making my first submission. I'd appreciate an experienced user giving it a look over to make sure I did things more or less right, and you're the one closest at hand; do you have the time? The page is Edmonton Bulletin editorial on the results of the 1893 Edmonton municipal election. Cheers, Sarcasticidealist (talk) 19:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It looks good. I've made a few suggestions to the page; feel free to revert and/or tinker.
If you have an author, add that to the author parameter. John Vandenberg (chat) 11:07, 20 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Update from your Italian pupilEdit

Hi John, here I am for usual fast greetings. I don't list what I'm doing, I only like to tell you that i'm working more and more as "Alebot driver". My scripts are an orrible mess of more than 100 Kby of python code, undocumented, mainly procedural, and without RE, so I presume that are perfectly unusable by anyone :-( ... but I have lots of fun using them. --Alex brollo (talk) 09:08, 23 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for the update Alex. it is great to hear you are making a lovely mess ;-)
John Vandenberg (chat) 10:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Award for participation

Bot help requestEdit

Can your bot extract the text in Page:MaryTudorHugo.djvu/x and Page:CromwellHugo.djvu/x? The text appears when I press create a page but it would be necessary to click create page-save page on every page for the text on all the pages to appear.--Natl1 (talk) 17:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We can probably could get a bot to touch and save the pages, however, our aim is to proof and validate our works, especially OCR'd works. As soon as we start to proof, the text will appear, so it pretty much becomes a moot point. If you think that I am missing something specific, then please do identify otherwise. For bot requests, the best place to ask is the specific page Wikisource:Bot requests. -- billinghurst (talk) 05:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Persistent VandalEdit

I need help! Someone is blanking and vandalizing my discussion page and a page I am working on. I have had to revert numerous times. The user name is: user:LordOfTheBirds, and an anonymous user identified by a : (talk) 06:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I took care of it, John. The details are at WS:AN. ResScholar (talk) 08:17, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Jay, I am labelling this one the Butthead vandal. Back again and fishing on the Admin's noticeboard. I consulted the Stewards and they gave advice on how to block the immediate problem of the current images. I stole imported WP's copy of the file. -- billinghurst (talk) 13:44, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks. John Vandenberg (chat) 22:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
/me shakes the casing surrounding JayVDB. Mate, we need some actions to help resolve the Butthead vandal. Beyond starting to protect dozens of pages, it would be good to have a better engineering control, rather than an admin control. -- billinghurst (talk) 11:58, 2 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I almost got the last one; you beat me by about a minute. I'll stick around for a bit; It'll be my first time ;) Cheers, Jack Merridew 12:02, 2 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've blocked for a week to give me a bit of time to investigate this further. Please reblock for longer if you dont see me on WS:AN before that block expires. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ye olde beastie is back and just having fun playing with my User page. All recorded on WS:AN, I believe that it needs a deeper solution. -- billinghurst (talk) 08:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Back again as User:Return of the Fandal. Charles Matthews (talk) 15:15, 30 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for the heads up. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:45, 30 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Fandal the VandalEdit

Could you please block User:Fandal - 7 Days Later? He is vandalizing my and others' user pages. --Eliyak T·C 20:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Never mind, Sanberg got it. --Eliyak T·C 20:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

File:The letters of Martin Luther.djvuEdit

Any issue moving this baby over to Commons? Just wanted to check that we don't have a specific reason for having it here. -- billinghurst (talk) 23:26, 7 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Commons requires it is PD in the country of origin, which is not possible until we have an author record for Margaret A. Currie that covers nationality and/or date of death.
OTOH, Wikisource allows anything pre 1923 irrespective of country of origin. Any time I have uploaded something here without a clear reason for it to be here, it is because I am lazy and I am happy to have someone do the research required ... ;-)
John Vandenberg (chat) 11:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
K. Good to know the basis and the latitude. -- billinghurst (talk) 12:07, 8 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

OCR buttonEdit


The ocr button is now enabled by default. you'll need to update your preferences as it's been disabled for you. sorry for the inconvenience. ThomasV (talk) 18:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Thanks for your support John, you've always been there for me and so many others. I'm sorry I'm not here as often, I've had a lot of work this year, and it looks like it's going to get better. :D I also had a baby boy mid-year, so I hope you can understand my absence. But if you need any help, on anything, you can still contact me. I continue to log on in enwiki all the time, I just try not to edit as much to avoid the addiction. :) I hope to return when things settle down @ home, but for now you may not see me here as often. Again, thanks for your support and hang in there, this project needs you more than anyone else. Goodbye. - Mtmelendez (talk) 13:04, 15 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have lightly fubar'd, need adviceEdit

Hi J. I need someone with some greater wiki expertise. I was importing a template, and it also imported and overwrote existing templates, (grrrr) which I didn't think would be possible, well, not automagically. When I look at the overwritten templates, there history has overwritten, and I cannot work out how to revert those templates to previous versions. Help! Thx and :-( billinghurst (talk) 11:36, 17 August 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ummm ... I've not encountered this before ;-)
Well, I've not seen it done with the "import" tool, however concurrent development of page content is a common problem, so a similar situation occurs when an admin does a "page merge".
To fix it "nicely", you need to split the history out.
w:Wikipedia:How to fix cut-and-paste moves is the best help page I can find quickly.
Pathoschild is good at this. I can do it next week (bug me).
The quick/nasty solution is to delete the template, and then restore only the most recent "good" revision, and then someone else can worry about the proper fix later.
John Vandenberg (chat) 11:51, 17 August 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Problem is that I cannot determine the recent good version on some of these. Probably partly due to other imports of the same file, or possibly the complete overwrite of the history. Hard to sort of tell. Ugh. I will put a note to Pathoschild in case he lumbers out of the murk. -- billinghurst (talk) 15:02, 17 August 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

John says that you have experience in cleaning up history fubars. If you have the time to have a look at this discussion, then that would be great. Thx. -- billinghurst (talk) 15:04, 17 August 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Template:Para 7 revisions
  • Template:Documentation 122 revisions
  • Template:Documentation/docname 9 revisions
  • Template:Documentation subpage 113 revisions
  • Template:Para/doc 19 revisions
  • Template:Pp-meta 80 revisions
  • Template:Pp-template 50 revisions
  • Template:Purge 30 revisions
  • Template:Tlx 66 revisions

billinghurst (talk) 23:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC) (from yesterday)Reply[reply]

Oh, I had already left a message. I had forgotten. For reference, the files that were imported at at User_talk:Billinghurst#Import log Fubar. Thanks for helping me out here. billinghurst (talk) 04:30, 30 August 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I wrote a quick and dirty script to fix edit history merges; when run on the source's history page, it generates a script that will check/uncheck revisions when restoring the target's history. I'll paste it here for future reference, since I otherwise won't keep it around.
## Generate a unique revision signature
function gen_signature( li ) {
	/* extract data */
	var text = li.innerHTML; // parse string instead of DOM, much faster
	var date    = text.match( /\d+:\d+, \d+ [a-z]+ \d+/i )[0];
	var user    = text.match( /mw-userlink"[^>]*>([^<]+)<\/a>/i )[1];
	var comment = text.match( /comment"[^>]*>\((.+)\)<\/span>/i );
	/* flatten comment & strip HTML */
	if( comment )
		comment = comment[1].replace( /<[^>]+>([^\n]+?)<\/[^>]+>/ig, '$1' );
		comment = '';
	/* return signature */
	return date.replace( /[^a-z0-9]/ig, '' ) + '|' + user.replace( /[^a-z0-9-]/ig, '' ) + '|' + comment.replace( /[^a-z0-9_-]/ig, '' );

## On a history page, generate script to run on Special:Undelete
function parse_history() {
	/* get history */
	var form    = document.getElementById( 'mw-history-compare' );
	var history = form.getElementsByTagName( 'li' );
	/* generate signatures */
	var signatures = [];
	for( var i = 0, len = history.length; i < len; i++ )
		signatures.push( gen_signature(history[i]) );
	/* build script */
	var script = '/*######################\n## Generate a unique revision signature\n######################*/\n'
		+ gen_signature + '\n\n'
		+ '/*######################\n## Bad revision signatures \n######################*/\n'
		+ 'var signatures = \'#' + signatures.join( '#' ) + '#\'\n\n'
		+ '/*######################\n## Toggle revisions \n######################*/\n'
		+ uncheck_bad_revisions	+ '\n'
		+ 'uncheck_bad_revisions();'
	/* output */
	pre = document.getElementById( 'fix-fubar-history' );
	if( !pre ) {
		var div = document.createElement( 'div' );
		div.setAttribute( 'style', 'padding:1em; border:1px solid #F00;' );
		var header = document.createElement( 'h3' );
		header.appendChild( document.createTextNode('Fix fubar history') );
		var text = document.createTextNode( 'Delete the imported page, then run the script below on its undelete page to check good revisions and uncheck bad ones.' );

		var pre = document.createElement( 'pre' );
		pre.setAttribute( 'id', 'fix-fubar-history' );
		div.appendChild( header );
		div.appendChild( text );
		div.appendChild( pre );
		form.insertBefore( div, form.childNodes[0] );
	pre.innerHTML = script;

## On undelete page, check/uncheck revisions based on signatures
function uncheck_bad_revisions() {
	/* default reason */
	document.getElementById( 'wpComment' ).value = 'Fixed merged edit history';

	/* get history & offset to deletion log */
	var history = document.getElementById( 'undelete' ).getElementsByTagName( 'li' );
	var offset  = 0;
	while( history[offset].getAttribute('class') == 'mw-logline-delete' )
	/* (un)check boxes */
	var count = 0;
	for( var i = offset, len = history.length; i < len; i++ ) {
		if( signatures.indexOf('#' + gen_signature(history[i]) + '#') == -1 ) {
			history[i].getElementsByTagName('input')[0].checked = true;
			history[i].setAttribute( 'style', '' );
		else {
			history[i].getElementsByTagName('input')[0].checked = false;
			history[i].setAttribute( 'style', 'background:#FCC;' );
	alert( count + ' bad revisions.' );
Pathoschild 17:58:44, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

As usual my greetings/news from ItalyEdit

Hi John, my best greetings as usual.

My source friends are very happy for the perspectives of my last idea, a simple template to cross-linking Page: pages and its ns0 transclusion. The template is it:Template:§§/Pt, it uses too the mostly interesting, previous it:Template:§. You can see a test implementation into it:Pagina:Zibaldone di pensieri I.djvu/101 and some following pages. One of the best emerging feartues is that is is an alternative to Page template, you can use basic transclusion to obtain test and Book tool runs (if there is no #lst transclusion:-(). As usual, I work by myself... it's highly probable that something similar exists, nevertheness I tell you anything I'm proud about. ! --Alex brollo (talk) 09:54, 27 August 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The cross-linking feature is very nice.
You may also call it:Template:AltraVersione in it:Template:§§/Pt. I have done this; feel free to revert. ;-)
It is unfortunate that this template needs to be placed into the "body" of the page.
Please see it:Discussioni_MediaWiki:Common.js#interwikiExtra
John Vandenberg (chat) 03:33, 28 August 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Your edit is an interesting suggestion and challenge, thanks! I dragged a little into AltraVersione (and related js: I don't know js, but I can understand more or less what it does, as I can understand latin languages as Spanish or French...) and I found an intersting feature: it accepts too dinamic URL, but only if the parameters are called by name. Don't ask me why. ;-)
So this doesn't run:
{{AltraVersione||Prova url edit}}
but this runs:
{{AltraVersione|1=|2=Prova url edit}}
--Alex brollo (talk) 08:28, 28 August 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
My proposed change to Common.js only needs to be copied.
AltraVersione parameter 1 should be a page name; it should not be a URL. Like this.
John Vandenberg (chat) 08:53, 28 August 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sad to waste your time but: why should it not? Plain URLs run perfectly - only dinamic ones cause troubles.
I edited back tl §§/Pt, but I saved the idea of AltraVersione; simply I added some parser functions to translate wikilink into a regular URL. It runs, without any js mess. ;-) I'll mention your js code to membres who can understand and appreciate it. --Alex brollo (talk) 13:07, 28 August 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Strategic planningEdit

I would very much like your comments and contribution to my strategic proposal to Make Wikisource scale. :-) --Nemo bis (talk) 01:57, 3 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Babel againEdit

Dear John,

I've been a babeltemplate fanatic for almost four years. I began talking with you about babel templates on la.source last year, but after your advice (saying "let's wait for the Babel extension to come, before importing hundredth of pages) I stopped and I went on workin on it.source using Pathoschild's approach (1 template for layout and 1 template for the texts concerning each language in order to create easily consistent userboxes). After a year I think this is sensible, and I thought out a tweak to have only the minimum number of pages involved. Let me describe it:

  • one Template:User language manages the layout of the babel box (borders, background colours, categorizations etc.)

Instead of writing a subpage for each language (as currently happens on meta), having already a very satisfactory number of such definitions nothing stops us from having...

  • 'one page, enclosing them all using <section begin=language_code />...<section end=language_code /> to have them transcluded in babeltemplates. Such an advantage is given by labebled sections.

Babel templates with this apporach can be created anytime when needed in a flash because what is needed is in just *two* pages, and after a year only very few messages have to be written from scratch.

I think that such a solution on la.source could spare us some time when the arrive of babel Extension will lead us to delete older templates, and in the meantime... we'll give la.source users the templates they expect. Is it too visionary? :D - εΔω 15:52, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

P.S. On en.source I noticed some laziness about babel templates (notice the lack of -grc and -vec messages on my babelbox)... I think this should change, and if you give my approach some support I could work on this topic.

Have a good Sunday. - εΔω 15:52, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Help with Djvu fileEdit


I would like to translate the text File:An_introduction_to_linear_drawing.djvu to portuguese, but it doesn't shows the pages as in File:Cinderella (1865).djvu. Do you know what did I do wrong? Thanks!!! Helder (talk) 00:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's working now! I've re-uploaded the file after converting from Google books using Any2Djvu...
Is it possible to get the text using OCR? Helder (talk) 00:34, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, I have created Index:An introduction to linear drawing.djvu.
The text is available when you edit one of the pages; e.g. click here: Page:An introduction to linear drawing.djvu/20
John Vandenberg (chat) 00:51, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Cool! What a nice extension!! Thank you for your help!
By the way, I'm curious: way the edits doesn't shows at the recent changes? Helder (talk) 01:27, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hmm. Edits appear on my Special:Recentchanges. Which edit is missing from your recentchanges page?
John Vandenberg (chat) 01:33, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This one.
Should I mark this page as {{blank page}}? Helder (talk) 01:46, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Maybe you have your preferences set to hide minor edits from your recentchanges. See Index: changes, include minor edits
{{blank page}} has become deprecated while I wasnt watching.
We normally dont transcribe text that was not part of the original printed material, such as the library call number and ex libris, but you can do it if you see some value in it.
John Vandenberg (chat) 03:44, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Actually the problem was because the edit was patrolled... Thanks for the information... Helder (talk) 12:26, 25 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Awabakal, AndamaneseEdit

Hi John,

Re your note on en.wp, I have quite a few contributions to Wikisource, as well as (more recently) WikiWoordenboek already. I don't understand what this has to do with Kirill's ban on en.wp, which was based solely (to my knowledge) upon ArbCom's insistence that Wikipedia administrators and ArbCom may post the real world identity of contributors while hiding behind their own pseudonyms - how (and why) would positive contributions to any other Wikiproject bear on that, when my positive contributions to en.wp didn't (and still don't?)

I'm happy to help with the Man dictionary if you can find it, because I need the book anyhow, and it's a minor hassle for me to get it. You don't need to offer it as a carrot re ArbCom, and I wouldn't play it that way: I don't need to be "reformed," and reject any solution which includes a plea to that effect. I'm also happy to help with Threlkeld's Awabakal as well if you can arrange Man's Aka-Bea dictionary.Proabivouac (talk) 00:07, 10 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

John is not around much here at the moment, if you can give some fuller information, others can possibly provide assistance relating to enWS. -- billinghurst (talk) 09:00, 10 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm here... :P John Vandenberg (chat) 09:09, 10 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Excellent, look how long the TO DO list has grown. Moooohahahaaaaaa. (jk, I think).-- billinghurst (talk) 00:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Okay…what do I do now?
(I should also mention that many the pages that I proofed in On The Vital Principles were not proofed before for good reason - they used Greek characters, which the OCR didn't recognize.)Proabivouac (talk) 05:23, 12 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are a number of pages which still need to be scanned. Sorry for the delay.
John Vandenberg (chat) 05:34, 12 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Understandable - it's a big book, and difficult to find. Let me know soon, though, because I'm just about to order it. 08:35, 10 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I scanned the book I have before I took my holidays. I have a week off work now, and will get it uploaded. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:49, 11 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Okay, sounds good. I did order it, but it would still be mutually helpful to edit an OCRd version over here, since my usual method is to rekey it.
I wonder if, in looking at this material, you got any sense for Bea's derivational strategy of prefixing "noun classes" (so they're deemed in the literature) associated with areas of the body to qualify and modify the meanings of both nominal and verbal roots - I'm unaware of anything like it outside the Andamans. 08:13, 12 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Update: I got the book, and I'm rekeying it now. It would still help if it were OCR'd, but a weeks from today, it will be moot.
Generally, I'd be happy to collaborate with Wikisource where it's mutually beneficial - I can offer subject-matter expertise (to the extent that anyone can be said to be an "expert" on obscure and in this case extinct languages) in return for help procuring and OCRing material. For what should be obvious reasons, I'm not especially keen on helping Wikimedia projects (particularly English-language ones) gratis.
I hear, though, that Benjiboi and other valuable editors in good standing are available.Proabivouac (talk) 09:11, 28 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As an addendum, it's the footnote to page 170 which really hurts: "As it is found that the material available for Appendix IV would, if incorporated in its entirety in this place, not only entail delay in its preparation -- consisting as it does of notes written more than 40 years ago - but also increase to an unreasonable extent the space occupied by its appendices…"
That is, Man had substantial comparative vocabularies of (at least) the now-extinct Bale (Balawa), Phuchikhwar (Bojig-yab), Kol, Juwoi and Jeru (Yere), but didn't publish them.
Rescuing and preserving this irreplacable material would be a real gift to future generations. But what do we do? His notes are probably archived somewhere in England.Proabivouac (talk) 09:21, 28 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: I'm back on campus with broadband. All going well, I'll upload it tonight. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:28, 28 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oh, great! I've only rekeyed about 10 pages…hey when you need the data, you need the data…and I'm creating not only a reconstruction of proto-Great Andaman, but an etymological dictionary, so a significant portion of the text will actually be used - Portman (1887, 1898) provided extensive comparative materials for the languages found on pp. 170-173, which as may be seen are suprisingly diverse. I'll credit you for OCRing it, of course.Proabivouac (talk) 07:28, 31 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wikisource:Proposed deletions#Template:Blank pageEdit

Do you have any comment, especially with regard to Hesperian's thoughts, before this discussion is closed? -- billinghurst (talk) 08:58, 10 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Re: WelcomeEdit

Glad to be here. I always wanted to learn more about wikisource, and this seems like a good opportunity :) --Piotrus (talk) 02:30, 13 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

PS. Is this how this works? Looks fun. --Piotrus (talk) 02:35, 13 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
:-) John Vandenberg (chat) 02:44, 13 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Having done pl:Strona:Opis ziem zamieszkanych przez Polaków 1.djvu/11 I have a bunch of questions. The original text is not set very well, should we adopt a consistent style and standarize pagenumbers (for example) which can be 26— 27, 27 — 30, 17 - 21, 90—91 and so on (different spaces, dashes vs. hyphens, and so on)? Second: do we care about indentation and how it can be achieved on wiki? --Piotrus (talk) 04:49, 13 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You will have lots of questions, so I recommend that you approach this knowledge gap from two angles:
  1. Participate in proofreading projects on either English, German or French Wikisource, so you can learn from the community.
  2. Talk to Polish admins and the contributors at the top of this list, and help them with the existing projects so you can learn any existing conventions that have been developed on Polish Wikisource. Grow the team of people on Polish Wikisource, so that you have a group of people thinking about these issues. Find librarians on Polish Wikipedia, as they will already been participating in digitisation programs in their real job, and will have a lot of advice to give.
In regards to orthography and typography, I like to remain as true to the original as is possible without resulting in the wikitext becoming unreadable. However some people prefer to simplify the text for the benefit of the reader. As far as I know, there has never been an edit war about this, but it is the primary contender. The classic example is the w:long s. Polish Wikisource will need to decide how they want to manage these issues. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:00, 13 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I suggest that you take a look at A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force.
John Vandenberg (chat) 06:05, 13 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the advice, I'll take a look at those pages. I am looking forward to the end of the dramu and beginning of my adventure here :) --Piotrus (talk) 19:12, 13 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Thanks for the welcome.

I'm working on getting the entire Anthony Roll up and running, but I've hit a problem. The original (handwritten) text has numbers written in roman numerals in a somewhat complicated manner. The only solution I could find right away was to use the math formula script (see Jhesus of Lubeke and Struse). However, the original text doesn't have a line between the upper xx and the lower iiij. Do you know of any better way of incorporating this feature into the text?

Peter Isotalo (talk) 00:14, 15 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Do you have pagescans for this manuscript? John Vandenberg (chat) 05:23, 15 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not of the original vellum rolls. I don't believe that full, readable facsimiles actually exist. I only have the volume in which the text has been published in plain print along with photos of the ships. I've scanned the text and put it through OCR, but the more complicated roman numerals naturally didn't get recognized by the application.
Peter Isotalo (talk) 07:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In order to help with complex transcription, I would probably need to see the pagescans being reproduced. If not the entire work, can you provide a sample of these roman numerals as an image?
John Vandenberg (chat) 15:00, 15 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Okay, I've made an image of an excerpt with a lot of complicated roman numerals. The reprint of the Anthony Roll is copyrighted, so I can't really upload it. How should I go about showing it to you?
Peter Isotalo (talk) 17:55, 15 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I found this image of a part of one of the rolls. This section shows what to the best of my knowledge is the standard layout for all entries in all three rolls. The name of the ship along with its tonnage is given to the left of the illustration and the crew size to the right. The standard phrase "For the [ship's name]..." is on the left margin and the list of armament , ammunition, etc (only partially visible in the top lefthand corner) is given in columns underneath each illustration. In this picture you can see the illustration for the Anne Gallante, but the inventory above it is for the Graund Masterys [Mistress], which is only partially visible at the top.
You can see an example of the complicated numerals I was talking about underneath the column below the heading "Gonnes of yron" right above the main and bonaventure mizzen masts (the two aft ones) of the illustrated ship. It reads as follows:
Somma - vj x (the math formula is the best way I know to illustrate it so far)
It means "vi" multiplied by "c" plus ("xx" multiplied by "iiij") plus "x", or 6 x 100 + (20 x 4) + 10. In plain numbers it's 690.
Peter Isotalo (talk) 22:22, 15 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You can email it to me at jayvdb
However I can see roughly what you mean now, and I will try to reproduce it as text. --John Vandenberg (chat) 22:27, 16 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have create two examples at User:John Vandenberg/sandbox. If you hover over the roman numerals, modern browsers will display "690". Feel free to play with my test templates and destroy my sandbox ;-)

Does the "c" element ever change? If it does, another parameter will be needed. John Vandenberg (chat) 22:59, 16 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Superscript "c" never changes, no. It always means "multyply by 100".
I mailed you a sample page from the published transcript. Dunno if you need it, but it can give oy an idea of what it looks like in print. The template suggestion you made seems quite good. The hovering numbers was an excellent idea. I think it's probably best to treat the "xx" the same as the sup "c", since it has the same function. However, it would be nice if there was a way to get actual stacked text, if at all possible.
I'm rather busy with a lot of other projects, but I'll work on this one now and then. Please feel free to help out with tweaking the texts if you're interested. And thanks for lending a hand!
Peter Isotalo (talk) 12:21, 20 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Discussion at User talk:U7a John Vandenberg (chat) 22:18, 16 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Really evil tableEdit

Check the bottom one at pl:Strona:Opis ziem zamieszkanych przez Polaków 1.djvu/24. --Piotrus (talk) 03:56, 25 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nice. And thanks for checking the death date of that guy. It would have been a shame to delete that project. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Author pagesEdit

Should author pages like Author:Bolesław Prus be created only for authors with works on en wiki? I was looking at Polish authors listed here Page:Index_To_Short_Stories_1923.djvu/554 and half of the red links is to famous Polish writers I recognize instantly (I am sure they have entries on pl wikisource) - but they seem to have no works on en wikisource yet... --Piotrus (talk) 02:31, 26 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Every author can have an author page here. The inclusion criteria is: they must have one work which is "free", or be dead. i.e. no author pages for living people who have contributed nothing to the commons.
We will eventually provide free English translations of Polish works, but even without those ... you can build an extensive bibliography on the author page, including both their Polish works and works about the author. This is similar to having Polish words on en.wikt. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:03, 26 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
With regards to the index of short stories, is it just the index? Or are the actual stories by those writers to be transcribed? And wouldn't they be possibly non-PD, due to translator's copyright (if he died later than the original author)? --Piotrus (talk) 17:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I dont understand.
If the author is dead, you can create an author page.
If they are not dead, one of their works must be "free" before you can create an author page.
It doesnt matter whether the published translations are also free; we can create our own translations if the original work is in the PD.
John Vandenberg (chat) 20:04, 26 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What to do if a page is missing text?Edit

But when the scan shows it should have such a text? Do we have to retype everything manually? --Piotrus (talk) 17:07, 26 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You can try using the OCR button; if that doesnt work, you need to type it by hand.
John Vandenberg (chat) 19:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

translating s: interfaceEdit

translations of Index and Page can be added in translatewiki [6] , but where can I add translations of corresponding talk pages (Index talk)? --WikedKentaur (talk) 14:57, 31 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question, why would you want to translate the talk pages and to have them in unison? It is the works that are for comparison, each talk page would hold a local conversation about the work and its undertaking. billinghurst (talk) 15:58, 31 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's about translating Mediawikis namespace name. --WikedKentaur (talk) 15:27, 1 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have replied at et:Kasutaja arutelu:WikedKentaur. bugzilla:21370 has been created to complete the task.
John Vandenberg (chat) 23:54, 31 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

One proofread doneEdit

Hi, I have just finished the proofread of Index:The music of Bohemia.djvu. Could you have a look please.--Juan de Vojníkov (talk) 09:10, 17 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Fantastic! I've added it to the current Wikisource:Proofread of the Month validation drive. John Vandenberg (chat) 09:35, 17 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


I just did an article on Babbage, and was pleased to discover that you had added a work it referred to. Regards, Cygnis insignis (talk) 20:12, 17 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for the heads upEdit

About the reconfirmation, that is. I'm hoping that my busy schedule will lighten up at some point, which will let me get back to editing all my other projects... at the moment, I'm just barely active on enwiki, and totally inactive everywhere else. Le sigh. EVula // talk // // 22:52, 19 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It seems this delightful subject was known to the medical community at least eight years before the above article was published:

Disease, being always an effect, is always in exact proportion to the sum of its causes, as much in the case of Spigelius, who dies of a scratch, as in that of the man who recovers after an iron bar has been shot through his brain. —Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr., "Currents and Counter-Currents in Medical Science" (1860)

ResScholar (talk) 06:07, 25 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

But then, with the 1848 paper listed in the notes I guess you already knew that. Oh well, maybe you'll still think it's interesting that Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr. knew about the case and that the work containing the allusion existed on Wikisource.
ResScholar (talk) 06:13, 25 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It is nice to see the obscure sources starting to link together on Wikisource. Like the Babbage section above.
I have added it to Author:Phineas Gage.
I have been speaking with a researcher who has collated vast numbers of sources about Gage, many being PD. I'll ask him if he knew about this one.
John Vandenberg (chat) 07:00, 25 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

License of Barack Obama's speechEdit

I saw you participated in WikiProject Barack Obama, so I want to ask you why is his speech in public domain? I can understand that his speech under his presidental term belongs to US Federal Goverment, but how about his campaigns and speech at Democratic Party? Vinhtantran (talk) 04:49, 26 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See Talk:2004 Democratic National Convention/Keynote address#Freedom.
I think we need to take one of these to WS:COPYVIO in order to determine their status.
John Vandenberg (chat) 18:14, 28 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Daniel Schrock v. Learning Curve International, Inc.Edit

This is a nice find, thanks for adding it! I think I'll assign an extract from it as required reading in my Copyright course in the spring. :-) Tarmstro99 (talk) 20:26, 29 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Any chance you could add an assessment item to "fill in a redlink" ? ;-) John Vandenberg (chat) 00:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hee! Actually, I believe a few of those are already here (certainly Feist and Ets-Hokin, and possibly some of the others as well). Will see about fixing the links as time permits. Tarmstro99 (talk) 00:55, 30 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've found those two and created redirects. I think we should add Gracen. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:50, 30 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hi John as I see you are also a participant here, I am just saying hello and if I can help, let me know. Best, --A Nobody (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Align similar templatesEdit

I see that we have Template:DJVU page link of your creation and the later creation of Template:TOC link. They both seem to do similar things, care to have a look? billinghurst (talk) 20:37, 5 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:TOC link adds an extra parameter, but it adds it as the second parameter. A merge will be desirable, but the calling conventions need to be aligned first. I'm wondering if the French project has a similar template.. John Vandenberg (chat) 23:02, 5 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Neither template has insurmountable issues or numbers, and it would seem preferable to do something now rather than later. I'll get Phe to make comment too. billinghurst (talk) 05:52, 6 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We have one on fr:, fr:Modèle:LienPage but it miss the main feature, relative link in Page: without activating subpage in this namespace. There is also another problem, you use relative page offset number but it doesn't work always, a link from a TOC can link to a page in roman number. So either we use absolute page number instead of offset or we make a special case if params 1 is not a number. Last problem is the template name, none of the used name are right, your template predate pdf handling, we can have now this template used in pdf. Mine and Billinghurst one are incorrect because they can be used outside a TOC (in a context like "See p. 123" inside a note). Billinghurst suggested "work link" as name to clarify it must be used to link from a given work to the same work. Phe (talk) 10:10, 6 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


You are very dull. I'm sorry sir. I shall block you now.

Good luck with that. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:00, 10 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

you are a mean person! unsigned comment by 2009-12-10T08:03:44 (talk) Dwight Orange.

Gday. Furry Christmas and Slappy New Ears. Hiding from us num-nums? ;-) billinghurst (talk)

Happy new year from Italy!Edit

An happy 2010 for you, John! I always remember those months here, when I learnt so much. Some weeks ago, I've been so bold to contribute into el.wikisource with el:Ιππαρχικός and el:Περί_Ιππικής... :D

Obviously I can't understand a single word of Greek! But... it has turned out a possible job. ;-) --Alex brollo (talk) 23:38, 28 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Treaty with Algeria (1795)Edit

I am presuming that this is not the real, and final, name of the work. Are you getting back to it? -- billinghurst (talk) 22:27, 7 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply] might be broke! :(Edit

Hey John, I recently started getting 500 errors when I try to upload stuff to the commons with Any idea what is going on? Does it work for you? Uploading by hand is such a pain. Thanks. --Mattwj2002 (talk) 04:37, 11 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I haven't tried it in a while. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:25, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Paul Morphy, later lifeEdit

Is this complete, can you add some info on who was buck, find foreword to book!

You mean Paul Morphy: His Later Life ?
Gosh, that was a while ago. I'm not sure where that PDF is. I think it was Google Books.
John Vandenberg (chat) 02:29, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Fix or delete?Edit

Hi John, Special:DoubleRedirects indicates that you have double redirects. Can we delete the older links? billinghurst sDrewth 11:43, 22 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It looks like someone has sorted this out. I didn't scream. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:30, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

One of your created files. Fixed it and loaded the text layer. billinghurst sDrewth 13:37, 23 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ta. There are a few more local uploads by DaviesMan (talkcontribs) if you are ever bored ;-) --John Vandenberg (chat) 02:34, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have a better system. Matt loves doing this stuff, so I have shared with him. :-) billinghurst sDrewth 03:19, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hi John. If you recall pl:Indeks:Opis ziem zamieszkanych przez Polaków 1.djvu, we have a problem. While the first pages were scanned really nicely, it appears that most of the work is scanned very badly - pages are missing or appear to be shifted. For example, page 41 contains text from page 40 (and in turn, text of 41 was on 42... and so on). Are there any tools that may help? --Piotrus (talk) 02:36, 25 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The text can be uploaded on the "wrong" wikipage by a small hack to However before doing that, we need to confirm that this "off-by-one" error is consistent all the way through. If it isn't consistent, it will probably be necessary to juggle the OCR text around manually. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Text submissionEdit

Hi John,

I'm in touch with a couple of professors who have composed research cases, which they are interested in releasing under a free license for use on Wiki*edia. Right now, I'd like to just send them simple instructions for uploading a single one; that way, we can determine the best way to handle them, before forging ahead with more of them. (See Scriptorium#Need some guidance if you like for a little more detail.)

I'm wondering whether there's a nice clean set of instructions, along the lines of w:Wikipedia:Contact us/Photo submission, that I could send their way to get the first one in the system. Cary said you'd be a good person to ask.

Thanks for any help, -Pete Forsyth (WMF) (talk) 23:58, 25 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Haven't seen John around for a little while, he may be afk. It is that time of the year here. billinghurst sDrewth 01:50, 26 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for that, Billinghurst! I'd appreciate any further thoughts you have, as well. I'd say they're currently "on the hook," and excited about the idea; it would be a good idea to give them instructions soon (even if they're not perfect instructions, and need to be modified for later iterations). -Pete Forsyth (WMF) (talk) 01:29, 27 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If it hasnt been peer-reviewed (in the traditional sense; i.e. peer-review that is academically acceptable for their discipline), then it isn't a good fit for Wikisource. If the research has been peer-reviewed, then there must be a "version" of these documents which has been reviewed. We want that version, and ideally we want them to "print" it to PDF so we have an durable electronic object. We don't want documents being created on Wikisource; we are not a "publisher" of original content. If the research is ongoing, the active component could go on Wikiversity, and each peer-reviewed/published edition could be placed onto Wikisource, either as separate pages, or as versions of the same pages. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:15, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Journal indexesEdit

We previous discussed the posting of indexes for various issues of journals. I have an idea on how to organize and structure that. However, what I need to know from you is two things - 1. Does that still sound like a good idea? and 2. I would like to have a copyright template put together about how an index can be reproduced without it violating copyright, or something to that effect. That way, there can be pages of it without any concern or problems. Ottava Rima (talk) 23:54, 1 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It is still a wonderful idea ;-)
If the index is comprised of facts (i.e. article x, by author y, appeared in issue z), rather than original content, it cant infringe on a published index. Imagine you are creating an encyclopedic page about a book - describing it in detail does not infringe on the work; listing the chapters is not infringing on the work; etc. If you want a template to covers these, I'm sure we can come up with something.
John Vandenberg (chat) 02:03, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
{{PD-ineligible}} would be my selection for an index. billinghurst sDrewth 03:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That won't work, as it implies it is talking about the periodical, rather than the page text.
i.e. if we put it on American Anthropologist, it would be inappropriately leading the reader to believe that the PD-1923 journal articles are ineligible and, worse, that the post 1922 journal articles are also ineligible.
What is more, the wiki-text is, by default, GFDL/CC-BY-SA, as it is user contributed. The facts in the wiki-text are ineligible, but a mirror would need to attribute Wikisource.
John Vandenberg (chat) 07:03, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If it is a simple listing as expressed above then to me it doesn't sound like there is a creative aspect, just a compilation. If you were looking to create a subject index, then that would be a different matter [7].
If we are looking to create it, then it would seem to sit in the Wikisource: namespace rather than in the main namespace, and would have its own tag, and not a tag that sits with the work itself, which would have their own copyright tags. Or are you interpreting this differently? billinghurst sDrewth 08:55, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • As a note, the information I would like to put - Journal name/Volume - then each section is an issue number with a list of author, then article title, then page number. It would be no different than an organized version of many reference/bibliography sections on encyclopedic articles. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:02, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Metadata tagsEdit

Hi! Could you explain what the weird <div> tags are for on this page? I've been looking for a page that explains them but can't seem to find one. Should I add tags like that when I create new pages? Regards, Jafeluv (talk) 15:38, 10 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Information at Wikisource:Song of the day. It is an attempt at metadata in lieu of better means being available. billinghurst sDrewth 01:12, 11 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ok, thanks for the link. It might be a good idea to put that sort of things inside templates instead of bare html tags, but the page seems to be pretty much historical in any case. Jafeluv (talk) 12:44, 11 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]


[8] wtf. The most famous and important literary academic journal is declared a magazine by some half rate "scholar"? I'm upset. Just a brief glance at the page or looking at the sources like [9] ("The main focus of this journal was literary criticism at a time when substantial changes in method were initiated in Britain..."). I'm really bothered by this nonsense. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:19, 20 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Fixed. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:37, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
By the way, I don't remember if you ever answered the question posed before about the page, or if we found someone who could - 1932 was the beginning. Does that mean we can get 5 years of it as no longer in copyright? Ottava Rima (talk) 14:12, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We can't include any works because even if they are PD in the UK, they would still be PD in the US due to w:URAA. John Vandenberg (chat) 22:18, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]


does any character remind you of someone in your personal life?which character? how? in this book: Three Men in a Boat. unsigned comment by 2010-02-21T20:44:01 (talk)

I haven't read that book. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:39, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Where are you????Edit

I'm back to add works for women that I added biographies for on EN WP for U.S. Women's History Month. See my WP page for a list. w:User:FloNight

I planned to wait till the end of March to add the works here. But Henry's writing is a key part of her life so I decided to add them first to link to her bio that I'm still writing.

I notice that you're not editing much now. Hope all is well. Take care, FloNight (talk) 13:04, 16 March 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Dead Sea scrolls 6Q23Edit

You commented in "Could you please explain where this text came from? If it is your own translation from the original sources, we need to know that. Cheers," It is just nonsense. That translation is fabricated. The whole thing fails the Google test. The 2012 reference is a dead give away. Also, no whole sentence appear anywhere but that wiki page... fragmenting down also does not appear to generate any leads. Alternate descriptions of and supposed translations of 6Q23 have no resemblance to this... whatever it is... Can you delete? BigBearWil (talk) 13:50, 16 March 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wikisource as a subject of scholarshipEdit

I thought the papers linked here might be of some interest to you. Tarmstro99 (talk) 01:48, 17 March 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

They are great; I found myself wanting to verify a few more pages after reading the articles! And the links are timely as well, as I have dropped one into a document I am writing right now! Thanks. John Vandenberg (chat) 17:30, 6 April 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Happy to be of service. You might keep an eye on this proposed project as well. Tarmstro99 (talk) 01:48, 15 April 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Recurrent whole paragraphs with minimal differencesEdit

Moved to WS:S#Recurrent_whole_paragraphs_with_minimal_differences as rather more appropriate. Apologies! CharlesSpencer (talk) 10:19, 7 April 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]


if it is possible for u lets help me how can i find rc4 source code in matlab you made glad if u help me. thanks unsigned comment by (talk) 2010-04-23T09:09:11.

I've never used an RC4 algorithm in Metlab, so I can't recommend any. google is your friend. Good luck with that.
p.s. the Wikisource project is not about source code; it is about public domain published works (usually written long ago).
John Vandenberg (chat) 05:14, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Copyright status of The Lion and the Unicorn: Socialism and the English GeniusEdit

Hi John. Do you have information about the copyright status of The Lion and the Unicorn: Socialism and the English Genius that puts it outside of the normal realm? — billinghurst sDrewth 15:29, 24 April 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No; I was just gnoming that day. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:05, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hi John, here I'm again. I posted an announcement into Scriptorium about a new bot account, User:Alex_brolloBot; I presume that the policy here is "when community doesn't comment, go ahead with the unflagged bot after some days", am I right?

I'm more and more engaged into it.source works, it's really an excellent community, and it's a real pleasure to work there; but sometimes I work into other source projects too, and I found everywhere the same "community soul"! --Alex brollo (talk) 08:28, 3 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

yes, you can use an unflagged bot because you have already informed the community about it. WS:BOT has more info. You are expected to answer any questions promptly, and stop immediately if requested.
After you have a few hundred bot edits, you can request the bot flag at WS:S.
John Vandenberg (chat) 04:11, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Welcome back to the dark pitEdit

I hope that your time in the sunshine has been beneficial and that we see some more of your smiling demeanour. Been meaning to ask where you plan to be in early July, Blues ns or Maroons ns? Might escape Vic for a week about then.— billinghurst sDrewth 09:17, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Probably Blues, but I have vague&flexible plans to spend a few weeks up north sometime in June/July. If you pass this way, feel free to drop in. If you want to stay, I have plenty of spare rooms, but no spare beds; I can remedy that if I have a few days notice. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:55, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sounds like my plans. Possibly fly to N/c and get to PtMq to visit outlaws with kids. Might runaway for a few days, or might take them for a drive up the hill. Initial thought was beer, meal, hello, can do own accom, look around A, never been there before; all so not organised just thoughts at the moment. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:03, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That case of beer is still waiting for you... ;-)
John Vandenberg (chat) 22:22, 5 May 2010 (UTC)