User talk:ShakespeareFan00/Archive1

Active discussions

Page Quality issues

PriorityConcernResponse taken
LowRunning headers for the Public General Statutes, I have a feeling the chapter indication may be on the wrong side on some pages, after checking.
MidPage:Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/146 - Table closure seemingly broken by using sections?.

See Also:/Sfan00_IMG

Hello, ShakespeareFan00, welcome to Wikisource! Thanks for your interest in the project; we hope you'll enjoy the community and your work here. If you need help, see our help pages (especially Adding texts and Wikisource's style guide). You can discuss or ask questions from the community in general at the Scriptorium. The Community Portal lists tasks you can help with if you wish. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me on my talk page.

Sherurcij (talk) (λεμα σαβαχθανει) 14:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Google Books / Print - Public Domain books...

I just realized I had never responded to your note on my talk page. I agree with what Jude said at the Scriptorium. The underlying text is public domain. Although I would not upload a full pdf from them onto Commons, I see no problem trancribing the PD text to wikisource (mechanically or otherwise). Nor do I see a problem copying a original illustration from the scan to a new PD file. w:Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp. is decisive on that issue.--BirgitteSB 19:10, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


I have added some candidates for featured texts on WS:FTC, and the collaboration projects for the next few weeks have been scheduled at WT:CotW#Schedule. I suggest putting those two pages on your watchlist, and enabling email notifications in your prefs. The next collab project should provide some very interesting content for a program. --John Vandenberg (chat) 22:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

The Cutters Practical Guide

ShakespeareFan00, I e-mailed the sites owner of where you found The Cutters Practical Guide. I asked her if she had the complete collection. I am hoping to hear back soon. Please leave a message on my talk page if you want to get a hold of me about anything. --Mattwj2002 (talk) 12:58, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


I answered your question at Wikisource:Scriptorium#UK_.27Hansard.27:

I think some of my friends are already working on digitizing and making publicly-available all of the Hansard. See (talk) 13:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Cheers. – Kaihsu (talk) 13:56, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


(Move log); 21:29 . . ShakespeareFan00 (Talk | contribs | block) Author:John B. Dykes moved to Author:John Bacchus Dykes (Expand inital)
I was actually talking on IRC yesterday (were you there?) about our need to do this more often, per library standards, and to reduce errors where we have a redlink to "John F Kennedy" or something. I was thinking of creating a Category:Authors with unidentified initials to put these authorpages into, and then we could collaborate as a group to fix them all up. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Nikola Tesla‎. 21:48, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


Hey SF, I managed to get that copy of Bradshaw I have scanned in. It's issue XVI from 1843. See File:Bradshaw's_Monthly_(XVI).djvu. Enjoy. :-) Dominic (talk) 14:13, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

The Elements of Euclid

I suggest merging all the information on User:ShakespeareFan00/Elements into The Elements of Euclid. --DavidCary (talk) 12:59, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and merged them.   Done .
We do have {{sdelete}} for use as required. -- billinghurst (talk) 23:44, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Works belong in main namespace

With Portal:English_Statutes/Titles_(Ruffhead)_Hen3._to_Hen6. you have transcribed a work to the portal namespace, and this is not correct. All works should be transcribed to the main namespace as that is where published works live. Portal is a compilation space, see Help:Namespaces. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:39, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to move it to an appropriate place :) Sfan00 IMG (talk) 10:24, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Collapsing tables

Hi, the tables we have been talking about could look like shown below (start of article). A couple of problems remain: 1. text is bold and centered in columns and 2. references must belong to each collapzible table. The problems probably have to do with CSS, but I thing it could be solved by doing some styling. Regards, --Sir48 (talk) 21:43, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Acts of the Parliament of England during the reign of Richard II
These are the Acts of the Parliament of England, which remained in existence until the Act of Union 1707, during the reign of Richard II. Preceded by the reign of Edward III and followed by the reign of Henry IV .
1 Ric. 2
Chapter Long title(s) Short title Subject Notes
1 A Confirmation of the Liberties of the Church, the Great Charter, the Charter of the Forest, and of all Statutes not repealed. Confirmation of Charters, etc. Act 1377 Confirmation of charters,&c. [rep. 1]
2 Peace shall be kept, and Justice indifferently done to all Men. Peace of the Realm, etc. Act 1377 Peace of the Realm &c. [rep. 1]
3 All Statutes of Purveyors confirmed. Purveyance Act 1377 Purveyance [rep. 1]
4 Against Maintenance of Quarrels. Penalties for Maintenance Act 1377 Maintenance and Champtery
5 Confirmation of the Statutes concerning the Exchequer; Punissiment of a Clerk of the Exchequer making Process for a Debt paid. Officers of the Exchequer Act 1377 Offices of the Exchequer [rep. 1]
6 Against Villains that withdraw their Services. Villanies Act 1377 Villanies [rep. 1]
7 Against: giving of Liveries for Maintenance. Maintenance Act 1377 Maintainence [rep. 1]
8 Touching Protections cum clausula Voliimus. Protections Act 1377 Protections [rep. 1]
9 Gifts of Lands or Goods for Maintenance shall be void, and Assises shall lie against the Pernor of the Profits. Maintenance, etc. Act 1377 Maintainance [rep. 1]
10 Confirmation of a Pardon granted in the Fiftieth Year of Edward the Third. Confirmation of Pardons Act 1377 Confirmation of Pardons [rep. 1]
11 None that hath been Sheriff shall be Sheriff within Three Years after. Sheriffs (Re-appointment) Act 1377 Sheriff.
12 Touching Prisoners of the Fleet suffered to go at large. Prisoners for Debt Act 1377 Crown Debt: Escape
13 Obligations made by Spiritual Men to do contrary to the Laws of the" Church shall be void. Suits in Spiritual Courts Act 1377 Suits in Spiritual Court [rep. 1]
14 Concerning Tithes. Tithes Act 1377 Tithes [rep. 1]
15 That no spiritual Person be arrested during Divine Service. Arrest of Clergy Act 1377 Arrest of Clergy [rep. 2]
2 Ric. 2 St. 1[rep. 3]
Chapter Long title(s) Short title Subject Notes
1 WHAT Merchants Strangers may safely bring any Merchandizes into this Realm. Merchants, Confirmation of Statutes, etc. Act 1378 [rep. 1]
2 Against Forestalling of Wines Merchants, Confirmation of Statutes, etc. Act 1378 [rep. 1]
3 For Merchants and others towards the West Parts. Merchants, Confirmation of Statutes, etc. Act 1378 [rep. 1]
4 Against Mariners flying out of the King's Service with-out Licence. Merchants, Confirmation of Statutes, etc. Act 1378 [rep. 1]
5 Against Raisers of false News or seditsous Rumours. Penalty for Slandering Great Men Act 1378 Slander
6 Against Welshmen taking away Women and Maids out of England, and other Abuses. Merchants, Confirmation of Statutes, etc. Act 1378 [rep. 1]
7 Urban was duly chosen Pope, and so ought to be accepted and obeyed. Merchants, Confirmation of Statutes, etc. Act 1378 [rep. 1]
8 Confirmation of the Statutes of Labourers. Merchants, Confirmation of Statutes, etc. Act 1378 [rep. 1]
2 Ric. 2 St 2.
Chapter Long title(s) Short title Subject Notes
1 Confirmation of the Liberties of the Church, the Great Charter, Charter of the Forest, and of all Statutes. Riots, Fraudulent Deeds, etc. Act 1379 [rep. 4]
2 Repeal of so much of the Act: made the last Parliament, as toucheth unlawful Assemblies in Wales. Riots, Fraudulent Deeds, etc. Act 1379 [rep. 1]
3 For Process to be made against them, which after Gifts made of their Lands and Goods by Collusion, fly to Sanctuary. Riots, Fraudulent Deeds, etc. Act 1379 Benefice
3 Ric. 2
Chapter Long title(s) Short title Subject Notes
1 Confirmation of all Liberties and Statutes. Confirmation of Liberties, etc. Act 1379 Confirmation of Liverties,&c.

[rep. 1]

2 The Penalty of the Aulnager for sealing faulty Cloth. Assize of Cloths Act 1379 Assise of Cloths [rep. 1]
3 Against farming of Benefices of Aliens. Farming of Benefices for Aliens Act 1379 Benifice

Ok, this revision of the sandbox is very close to the ideal styling. The problem that remains is borders. Borders are set in each cell and in the table body. Apparently they can't be set with rows/cols. Fixing the borders for headers is comparitively easy since they're few and we'll probably template-ize the code for them anyway. The problem lies with the individual cells. Setting the border for each cell isn't practically feasible. Either we need a workaround that I haven't found yet, or we need to make ourselves content with extra borders for the bodies (not the headings) of the nested tables.--Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 00:51, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Ok, User:ShakespeareFan00/collapsing tables has been templatified with Template:Table start. Creating good-looking nested tables should be easy with this template. Regards--Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 03:55, 10 April 2012 (UTC)



  1. 1.00 1.01 1.02 1.03 1.04 1.05 1.06 1.07 1.08 1.09 1.10 1.11 1.12 1.13 1.14 1.15 1.16 1.17 1.18 1.19 1.20 Repealed by Statute Law Revision Act 1863
  2. Repealed by 9 Geo 4. c.31 s.1 (England), 9 Geo 4. c. 74 s.125 (India), 10 Geo 4. c.31 s.1 (Ireland).
  3. The Chronological Tables also note portions of this 'session' were repealed in part by, 9 Geo. 4. c.31 s.1 (England),9 Geo. 4, c.74, s.125 (India), 10 Geo. 4 c.34 s.1 (Ireland)
  4. Repealed by Statute Law Act 1863

Invitation to events in June and July: bot, script, template, and Gadget makers wanted

I invite you to the yearly Berlin hackathon, 1-3 June. Registration is now open. If you need financial assistance or help with visa or hotel, then please register by May 1st and mention it in the registration form.

This is the premier event for the MediaWiki and Wikimedia technical community. We'll be hacking, designing, teaching, and socialising, primarily talking about ResourceLoader and Gadgets (extending functionality with JavaScript), the switch to Lua for templates, Wikidata, and Wikimedia Labs.

We want to bring 100-150 people together, including lots of people who have not attended such events before. User scripts, gadgets, API use, Toolserver, Wikimedia Labs, mobile, structured data, templates -- if you are into any of these things, we want you to come!

I also thought you might want to know about other upcoming events where you can learn more about MediaWiki customization and development, how to best use the web API for bots, and various upcoming features and changes. We'd love to have power users, bot maintainers and writers, and template makers at these events so we can all learn from each other and chat about what needs doing.

Check out the the developers' days preceding Wikimania in July in Washington, DC and our other events.

Best wishes! - Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation's Volunteer Development Coordinator. Please reply on my talk page, here or at Sumanah (talk) 22:01, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Template Review

As the Wikisource:Scriptorium#Template_Review discussion addresses licensing, it should probably happen at Wikisource:Possible copyright violations. But lets leave it where it is for a day or two since it is already on Scriptorium, and see if there a quick solution. Jeepday (talk) 20:57, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Moved, Jeepday (talk) 10:45, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Template assistance

{{Statute table/chapter long}} of course cannot handle gap because it has no gap parameter. There is no passed override. Almost all of the difficulties you are facing is because you are calling a template from a template which in turn calls another template. {{Statute table/chapter long}} has no purpose as far as I can tell. You can directly use {{Statute table/chapter}} with one additional parameter which is "|Type=Long". You need to explain me why you want to do it like this.

If you want to benefit from my experience with 100% efficiency you should really tell me the issues you are having. When you tell me "Gap doesn't work" it is meaningless to me. I am unable to see the code of pages like Page:Chronological Table and Index of the Statutes.djvu/31 as my view is obstructed by "something" that hides the header and footer. I am in essence trying to create a template blind.

-- Cat chi? 19:41, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Further to this I converted the uses. I've also possibly solved an issue I had with the Gap behaviour, see the sandbox for

Stataue Table Entry. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 21:55, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Missing pages?


I just read in Requested Texts that there are 2 pages missing from the tables in Volume 1. Do you mean that the original work was flawed as published or that the scans were somehow left out of the .DjVu file used as the Index: at some point before it arrived here?

If the latter is the case, please let me know what .Djvu position number(s) the missing pages are suppose to be so I can insert blank place-holder pages into the .DjVu before hundreds of new pages are created based upon an incorrect page progression. Trust me, errors like that are easier to fix at this stage of ProofReading; plus, if the missing content ever shows up in the future, it is a snap to swap out the place holders for them instead moving dozens if not hundreds of pages just to make room for two previously missing pages. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:27, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

The pages were missing from the scans,

This is the last page before the missing pages -,_1763.djvu/39

This is the page after the gap -,_1763.djvu/40

I transcribed the missing page from an alternate set of scans on Google Books. [1], so it may be possible to carefully repair the source DJVU and insert the missing pages directly :).

Sure it is possible but I don't have any free time coming anytime soon to do all that. Inserting place-holders for now is all I can really do if anything at all.
That GooBoo version is missing pages as well --- but you're right about a 2-page gap at pages 36 & 37 at GooBoo when compared to our .Djvu.

I'd also suggest a check on the other volumes. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 09:54, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

That would be wise, yes. -- George Orwell III (talk) 11:11, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Problem with a reference to a statute

Hi, I'm having problems finding the legislation for the first footnote on Page:History of england froude.djvu/33. I don't seem to be able to find any legislation for 2 Hen. VII. let alone these capitula in our Portal or the WP list. I've tried a Google search but it only returns this work. Is it safe to assume that this is a mistake by the author? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:09, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

I Can't find a reference to 2 Hen VII. either. I also can't find a reference to a 2 Hen VIII. I've checked both the Ruffhead Edition and the Chronological Tables Wikisource holds. I would suggest you contact someone that has access to 'Statutes of the Realm' which would prove this definitively
Sfan00 IMG (talk) 11:19, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Acts that confer short titles

Thank you for your message on my talk page. In answer to your question, I am aware of the following enactments which confer short titles on other Acts:

Most of the enactments above were repealed by the Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1995. James500 (talk) 17:08, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

In the Republic of Ireland, the following Acts also confer short titles on other Acts:

James500 (talk) 09:09, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you :)

Sfan00 IMG (talk) 10:33, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Next point would be how to get copies of these onto Wikisource :) Sfan00 IMG (talk) 10:33, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Paragraph break?

Just in case you see something I don't, I didn't want to change your edit, but I don't believe you need a {{nop}} at the end of this page, as the paragraph continues on to the next page. Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:28, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

BL Statutes, etc

I'm not quite sure about "claim", but in response to your questions:

  • Yes, the BL has (as expected) a fairly comprehensive collection of published legal material, which appears to include a run of the Chronological Table of the Statutes up to 2011 (the 2012 edition is down as not yet having arrived). They're not that difficult to get hold of if you want your own copy, however; I have a copy of the 1992 two-volume comsolidated edition which cost me £6 a few years ago, and a quick search on ebay throws up another for under £15.
  • Unfortunately, I'm not able to get scans from the collection made on request - it'd have to go through the normal chargable document-supply system. (I don't have any privileged access to the scanning workflow). I do have access to a large collection of previously-digitised material, however. It doesn't, sadly, contain any of the major runs of statutes, but it does sweep up a few published editions of individual (mostly local) acts. I'll see if I can run those up.

Hope this helps, Andrew Gray (talk) 17:42, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

A followup - all the individually printed editions seem to be local acts (mostly from Hull, for some reason). There is a copy of Prothero's Select Statutes and other Constitutional Documents illustrative of the reigns of Elizabeth and James I, but this is mostly abbreviated texts. (A few key Acts are given in full). I can run this one up if you'd like. Andrew Gray (talk) 11:31, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
Well - Wikisource has a Ruffhead (which goes up to the first decade of Geo3.
It was the specfic 1877 version, because that's the version Wikisource currently has scans for. Someone had begun a project to put the 2010 version onto wikisource but it was seemingly abandoned. Assuming they would be covered under OGL, I'd have no objection to someone providing scans to work from - The current effort is- (1878 - 4th Edition) - If someone has scans covering General Statutes up-to 2010 (which would have the 'official' Short Titles) It would be useuful in populating the relevant portals here at Wikisource.

In terms of exisiting digitised items, priority would be anything that has significant historical value, Acts to amend local byelaws probably aren't of interest (other than to local historians), whereas acts that authorised particular schemes like Canals, Railways or major Public Works would be... Sfan00 IMG (talk) 20:01, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Pages with damage or missing information in 1878 scans -
  • Hello! Some unexpected good news - I ran into a researcher today who tells me he has a pile of scanned copies of the Statutes at Large (Pickering edition) up to the late 18th century - I'll try and get specific details - plus a good number of them already transcribed. We currently have the Ruffhead edition of SaL; is there a page anywhere listing the various statutes projects on Wikisource? Andrew Gray (talk) 16:41, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Belated response ,
  1. Scans of the Pickering Collection would be extremely useful (but it depends on the scan quality),Also based on the slow progress on the Ruffhead Scans, it would need a DNB level of project involvement to get it all transcribed. Not impossible,

but such a project would need publicity.

  1. There isn't yet a central index of Statute transcription projects at Wikisource.
  2. I've made an example page using data I've combined from the 1877 Chronological Table, Short title (1896), and careful examination of here -Portal:Acts_of_the_Parliament_of_the_United_Kingdom/Anne/7Ann, It would be nice

to get hold of the Repeal dates till 2013 to make the table as complete as possible, (Or is this something best done on Wikidata?)

Sfan00 IMG (talk) 00:22, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Re:Easton Bible Dictionary

A-Az has now been done, there were a few articles in the wrong order and one non-existent article (which was redlinked). Everything has been corrected and EBD Articles Intercut with Headings A-Az have been removed entirely at Wikisource:WikiProject Bible dictionaries. At Talk:Easton's Bible Dictionary (1897) entries for A are now 100% done.--kathleen wright5 (talk) 13:22, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Please explain these contributions

Would you please explain all the quick and successive validations listed at Special:Contributions/Sfan00_IMG. That looks like a bot application to me. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:57, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Your pattern of editing resembled another user's disruptive pattern of editing, and you were blocked to ensure you hadn't had your account taken over. A checkuser was performed, and it was determined that each of the edits came from different accounts. Your edits, while less disruptive, were still carelessly performed and are open to question. You are at this point requested to refrain from proofreading or validating while you address the issues in question with Billinghurst or a different administrator of his choosing. ResScholar (talk) 10:01, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

These validations have been given a second pass, and in places a number of minor typographical errors have been identified.

I would however like to urgently request why I got no notification of your earlier message when logged in as Sfan00_IMG.

Had I seen your earlier message BEFORE you decided to impose the block, the issue could have been resolved without the need for a checkuser or block. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:59, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

I found six out of sixteen pages. That's a pretty large number.
Why is your request to know urgent? The only thing that was urgent was stopping a user who possibly had a runaway bot. Notification came through the block itself, and if you were logged on, you couldn't have been doing any editing or you would have seen the block.
I see a lot of recrimination here (and elsewhere), rather than explanation, and the blatant disregard of a request from a well-established admin (you are continuing to proofread). Therefore I am restoring the block. ResScholar (talk) 18:11, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
(Responding from ShakespeareFan00)

By your direct request (namely the second block reason) I won't be editing until it's expired, considering that you've raised competency concerns. It seems that for whatever reason, the pages you've identified were prematurely validated.

Whilst I feel that undertaking the subsequent review, I acted in good faith, I can understand why you felt you had to re-block.

It would be appreciated if you could note any specific issues below, so that other contributors can help review the pages concerned. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:16, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi, sorry to butt in. I was just reviewing this, because I hate to see regular members blocked. From what I can tell, the issue is not one of competence at all. The issue is that you validated 163 pages in 61 minutes, at an average of 22 seconds per page. It takes time to drive the interface — edit, validated, save, next, edit, validated, save, next, ... — so it is hard to see how you spent any time at all on actual validation tasks. Maybe five seconds per page max. Do you assert that you can competently validate a page in that time? Hesperian 01:09, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
The evidence would suggest otherwise ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:17, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Umm, I don't want ownership here, and I am happy for any administrator to address and resolve this issue. I just noticed rapid editing and validation which I could not comprehend on a realism scale, and that was prior to the identification of errors in validation. Validation, even on the second run takes time, with an awareness to what issues first round proofreading can miss. I think that there needs to be an acknowledgement that the validation was rushed, and that a more intensive validation review for future edits would be valuable. If anyone is getting through three a minute, the experience around the table would say that the required thoroughness is thought to being missed.

If we have overblocked, it is from the impression that our initial messages were ignored, and possibly even circumvented by use of the alternate account. So we can AGF, and I would think that we would hear what SF00 thinks are the solutions. P.S. No need to send emails, these matters are better worked out at a community level.billinghurst sDrewth 03:27, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm more than willing to agree based on the evidence that things were prematurely validated. However, the subsequent edits were an attempt to address the concern raised, by having another look at the pages concerned. I apologise for trying to respond to the concern by reviewing the validations concerned in good faith.

It is my understanding that it's only the validations that are in contention? My solution in relation to that would be that someone else reviews the pages in contention (something that's already occured), this was partly why (in good faith) some of them had downgraded following the expiry of the first block. It would be appreciated if you could note specific pages below, so that when the second block expires, the works concerned can be given a second pass, by myself or other contributors.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:03, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

I won't make a list of works to check when the second block expires, but I may make a list of the ways you appear to be showing carelessness, if not contempt, in responding to this investigation into your editing behavior. Does that appearance accurately describe how you regard this inquiry? ResScholar (talk) 10:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
No it doesn't, and now you'are making unfounded allegations which I am going to ask you to apologise for. Throughout this I've considered I've acted in good faith, so a claim that I am showing contempt is completely unreasonable.

Other than the points of contention noted above, What do you consider are the areas where a lack of care is being shown? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Having had a chance to review this, the concerns about a lack of care are not as unfounded as would first seem, Sorry.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:31, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
I'm not contesting the block, but would appreciate guidance on how to proceed when it expires.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:53, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
@Resident Scholar - Having had a chance to talk with the other admin named above, It seems that I owe you an apology, Earlier you'd asked me to stop validating/proofreading. I took this to mean that you wanted me to stop performing new validations (with an implication that you wanted the previous ones reviewed) , It's been subsequently explained that what you wanted was a complete cessation pending a disscussion. Therefore owing to this mis-understanding, I acted boldly, which was what resulted in the re-blocking. I will take it as a matter of policy, that a cessation request means a complete cessation.

It's also been explained that the concern wasn't the errors themselves, but that they were being made at higher rate than would be considered 'normal' where a sufficiently rigorus check was being made. That is now clearly understood. So my next question is what are the remaining issues that need to be addressed before access can be restored? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:28, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Attempt to mediate

Hi guys, I'm here because ShakespeareFan00 asked me to look in on the situation from a perspective of interpersonal mediation. You'll notice I have no experience here on WikiSource, so I have no expertise in the project's policy and I'm not taking any position on whether blocks or behavior were right or wrong - I'm only interested in helping each of you to understand what the other is trying to say, so that a resolution can be reached. So, knowing nothing about this issue, here is what I am reading each of you as trying to say (using my words, not yours). If I've paraphrased anyone wrong, please let me know below.

In which Fluffernutter attempts to summarise the entire discussion
  • Original block issue:
    • User:billinghurst (22:57, 24 February): "You were doing validations unusually fast and appeared to be operating a bot."
    • User:ResidentScholar (10:01, 25 February): "Those edits look like a user we have previous experience with, who was abusive. I'm blocking this account until we know what's going on."
    • ResidentScholar, block log entry (unblocking) 10:03, 25 February: "Ok, our mistake, you're not that abusive bot user."
  • Dispute about block :
    • User:ShakespeareFan00 (14:59, 25 February): "Why was I blocked before I even saw these messages? I would have fixed the problem without a block being necessary if I'd known."
    • ResScholar (18:11, 25 February): "It wasn't a matter of fixing anything, it was a matter of us thinking you were a runaway bot. But now you're still editing weirdly, even though we now know it's you and not a bot, so I am going to re-block you to make you stop editing weirdly."
    • ShakespeareFan00 (01:16, 26 February): "Since you're concerned that I'm editing incompetently, I won't start up that editing anymore. I was editing in good faith, though. Could you please explain what you saw as the problems in my edits?"
    • User:Hesperian (01:09, 26 February): "I don't think it was a competence issue necessarily, it's just that you were editing so fast that it doesn't look like it's possible for you to have given each edit full attention. Are you sure you were paying attention to every edit?"
    • ShakespeareFan00 (01:17, 26 February): "Well, I thought I was giving them perfectly good attention, but you guys seem to disagree."
  • Dispute about the way forward:
    • Billinghurst (03:27, 26 February): "Let's all AGF here. I thought the validation was unusually rapid, and I think the block was applied heavily because admins were concerned that ShakespeareFan00 wasn't listening. He's listening now, though, so let's all talk about how his validations were working out and whether the speed he was working at was ok."
    • ShakespeareFan00 (10:03, 26 February): "It sounds like you're telling me you think I am not editing competently. If someone else wants to check my work, that's fine. Please one of you make a list of the pages that need to be re-checked."
    • ResScholar (10:32, 26 February): "I won't make a list of which pages need to be checked, but I will make a list of the ways I think you're not paying attention to your work and this discussion."
    • ShakespeareFan00 (11:32, 26 February through 13:28, 26 February): "Ok, I've looked back at my work and I agree that I maybe wasn't editing with as much care as I should have. I understand the block for that, but it would be helpful if someone can help me understand how to do things right after the block expires. Also, I misunderstood ResScholar's original point about what you wanted me to stop doing. Everyone, I'm ready to start editing again, but I want to do it right. Could you tell me what, specifically, I need to work on so that I can be unblocked and start editing well?"

So, in short, it sounds to me like there was some initial confusion about what the block was for and how ShakespeareFan00 had gone wrong, and a couple people started getting upset, but now everyone's starting to be on the same page. ResScholar, if possible, would you provide some information to ShakespeareFan00 about what else you'd like to see from him that would convince you that he's ready to be unblocked? He would like to return to editing. Everyone, if you can give ShakespeareFan00 any information about how to adjust his editing in the future, he would like to hear your advice about how to do things right and avoid trouble from now on. Fluffernutter (talk) 19:59, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

OK, I'll make a start. For me there are two issues:

1) the response in between the two blocks of going back and demoting pages at the same time as fixing the missed issues was unhelpful. It means that either I've got to go back and validate a page that I originally proofread or leave it to a third pair of eyes to examine, who may or may not turn up.

2) not following the validation process when working through a book. Point 3 of Help:Beginner's guide to validation#How to validate tells us to "check the proofread text in the text field against the text in the page scan". What it doesn't say explicitly is that this needs to be done line by line, character by character. In some ways this read-through needs to be more detailed than the initial proofreading run. Are all the diacritics present? Are the correct dashes and hyphens in the right places? Have the typical OCR errors (e.g. be/he or tlie/the) been fixed? Has a line been doubled or omitted? Have the templates or italics been closed correctly? Are the italics/small caps or other text formatting present? When I'm validating I'm thinking about all these details and more. The other thing to be thinking about is "how will this look in the mainspace"? So for me validation is not just about content, but also about presentation. Are the heading sizes consistent? Is punctuation spacing consistent throughout the whole work? Are the references in the right place? Would this image look better splitting a paragraph as it does in the text, or following the paragraph end, or maybe even floated to the left or right?

I could go on much longer, but hope that this gives "food for thought". Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:37, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

In response to issue 1 - Other than demoting the pages, I wasn't aware of a method for saying this page needs to be re-examined because of an attempted fix. I'm more than prepared to accept that it's puzzling to see a page that was considered validated pushed back, but I wasn't sure how else to alert other contributors a validated page needed a second pass. In respect of the contentious 'fast' Validations by myself, I'd like a clarification as to the acceptability of re-assessing a validation that had been previously undertaken.
In respect of issue 2 - This is now understood and prior to the contentious validations, was the approach I'd been trying to use. It was also the process I was trying to apply in relation to the contentious validations, but from the subsequent review it seems I wasn't being as careful as is required (i.e speed scanning for differences rather than slow-scan). It is interesting that you mention styling and so forth, that's why you get left (in good faith) a note about template closure. I also queried some formatting concerns with the other admin, to be sure that these were indeed styling choices, but given the earlier contentious validations I am willing to consider these might have been a perceived as a confrontational approach.
In respect of some other issues raised
Sfan00_IMG is an alternate, but it has a centralised talk page. Because the actual talk page is not aligned with the account name, Sfan00_IMG doesn't appear to get new message notifications. For whatever reasons it also seems that an e-mail address contact had not been set-up in the preferences (something now fixed) which meant that neither Sfan00_IMG or ShakespeareFan00 was getting e-mail notifications about talk page changes. This meant that Billingshurst inital comment went un-noticed. The centralisation of the talk page was something an admin on IRC had suggested, but I am more than willing to see a de-merge if that helps solve the notification issues. This lack of notification also appears to be why I didn't see ResidentScholar's comments in respect of the first block until after it was imposed. As stated previously, had I actually seen the concern I would have been able to respond in a better manner.

In checking back the time-stamps, it seems the most contentious validations were done later into the evening local time,

and thus, I am willing to consider that I might have been tired and thus missing things that were not obvious. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:08, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

1) While it would be nice to assume that all validated pages are completely accurate, we know that sometimes there are going to still be errors and when we find them we fix them, but we don't ask for another person to double-check at that point. If we did, we'd never get anything done. I don't see the need for you to down-grade your work.

2) My mistake of not closing templates on the two pages you found was why I specifically mentioned this in my list. For some reason I'm good at starting templates, but often forget to close them. Normally I notice when I've saved the page and I have to go back with an edit reason of "fix template", but somehow I missed these. This is why we have the validation process.

With respect to the notification issue, I would encourage you to leave your talk pages centralised, but I suggest you put it on your alternate's watchlist. You still have to check your watchlist from time to time (maybe open it in a separate tab and refresh every 30 minutes or hour), but there's a better chance of picking up any notifications while you're online. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:48, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

It would be more productive to fix the concern and leave a talk page note? That is something I can agree with. So my question now is what do I need to do to demonstrate I'm able to contribute in a non-disruptive manner? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:17, 27 February 2013 (UTC) I'd also like to thank you for taking the time to re-validate pages even though it's a time-consuming process. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:17, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't believe that validation was occurring at all. This appears to be status-changing en masse to avoid validation, rather than an attempt at validation that was a little too rushed. Twenty seconds per page minus the time it takes to drive the interface leaves no time to actually validate. I think you are being disingenuous when you say "I might have been tired and thus missing things that were not obvious". I don't believe you were even looking. Hesperian 01:38, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

As a rule I don't do status changes 'en-masse', I WAS actually trying to validate the pages concerned, and would consider comments saying otherwise to be an inaccurate reflection. Please assume good faith. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:47, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
I don't believe you, sorry. Hesperian 12:13, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
So you are saying I am lying? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:35, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
That's a nasty way of putting it, but we can go that way if you want. Yes, I am saying you are lying. To be specific, I believe the statement "I WAS actually trying to validate the pages concerned" is a lie. Hesperian 12:42, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Thank, you. There seems to be a perception of bad faith on my part which is inaccurate, and none exists. Hence I asked if you thought it was a lie, so that I could be clearer what you felt was inaccurate. I've attempted to respond to the concerns raised eslewhere in this thread, and I have a clearer understanding of what lead to the block. However I am dissapointed in the characterisation above. I have never set out to be deliberately disruptive, and as stated above I was honestly trying to validate the pages concerned. If you think rapid validation isn't validation then that's a reasonable comment, but I don't consider a honest comment made in response to a concern you had expressed to be a lie.

Additionally if what you were trying to say, was that no validation (even in good faith) could actually occur at those speeds, then I'm currently in complete agreement with you. I'm not contesting the block ( as I understand the reasons behind it), others have also given guidance.

What do you consider to be an appropriate and acceptable response?

At the very least the contentious pages need to be re-validated by someone other than myself. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:10, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm glad you're finally taking someone's counsel, acknowledging that no real validation can take place at those speeds is a good step. I suggest you let others decide what to do about those pages and just offer to do anything that is requested. Unlike something intentional, you aren't going to be any more helpful at finding the errors than anyone else. At the moment you can't do anything anyway but when your block is lifted or expires, I hope you will take on a different project for a while (as in not a major validation effort). Format some poetry or work on some of the stale things sitting on my user page ;-) (Or drive on with the work on as a real break for a while). If you need help finding something to do, look me up. Hopefully, this is sufficient to close the matter.--Doug.(talk contribs) 01:56, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
I've found the file I'm using at has missing pages :( Someone needs to re-build the underlying djvu and migrate the pages. 21:20, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Original response (reinstated after concerns were expressed about it's removal)

Sfan00_IMG is an alternate of ShakespeareFan00, and based on what an admin had previously advised, I'd centralised the talk page. (This also probably explains my query as to why I hadn't seen any notification of the earlier concern.) It would be appreciated if you could note any specific issues below, so that other contributors can help review the pages concerned. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:16, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

During the first block, I'd undertaken a specific review of the recent (premature validations) because concerns HAD been raised (I only saw the note here after I was unable to edit), and I was responding to them in relation to the specific works you and others had claimed had been incorrectly validated. Following the expiry of the first block, I then went back to the pages I'd made notes about and using (ShakespeareFan00), and did a second and sometimes third scan through, which is why some pages were downgraded. These fixes and downgrades were undertaken in good faith, and I'd found some that hadn't been already resolved. Having addressed the specific concerns (that had been stated) in good faith, I felt this issue had been resolved with respect to the item you specifically mentioned, I then also in Good faith also re-examined the other 2 works that had been in recent POTM's and to which I'd contributed. In one of these, Vanity Fair, I found some issues which were related to the use of {{bar}} vs a dash character, these were fixed and a downgrade applied to the pages (in good faith).

At this point I considered that the issue that caused the first block was effectively resolved, and that I could resume 'normal' editing.

The formatting concerns noted on your page, were made in good faith, so that I could gauge what standard of proofreading was being applied. Perhaps I should have been less functional in my approach?

I then resumed what I considered normal editing from Sfan00_IMG checking over some items that had recent edits. I then checked back over the threads about (premature validation) and found another named contributor had been fast validating, and was carefully reviewing these, up until the point when you seem to have misread my intention on the formatting concerns (which was in good faith), and re-blocked. I consider that in relation to the original concerns I HAD responded, by asking what had been missed, had sought to understand what standard was being applied,had attempted to fix them, and in good faith had started to check for issues similar to those I'd missed.

You initially thought it was a runaway bot or compromised account, neither of which apply. You now seem to be saying it's an issue of competence. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:38, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines.

You recently changed the Progress characteristic of Index:Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines.pdf to "Source file must be fixed before proofreading" — I have an undamaged version of the file, am I okay to continue proofreading based on that while the .pdf gets fixed?

Furthermore, how can I fix the file? I uploaded it in the direct-from-google state, with their disclaimer on the front page. User:George Orwell III uploaded a new version, with the Google disclaimer at the end, and with something called a "text-layer". I could see that he was a regular contributor to WikiSource and so asssumed that he knew what he was doing, but now the .pdf as it stands in the commons has many damaged pages. How would I go about fixing this, short of just undoing what GOIII did? Kierkkadon talk/contribs 17:54, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Owing to concerns about my competence (sse above), I am unable to respond to your enquiry. I suggest you ask a contributor that has the relevant experience for assistance.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:40, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Temporary list of pages needing review (other than previously mentioned elsewhere)

Page:Malabari, Behramji M. - Gujarat and the Gujaratis (1882).djvu/25 Page:Railways_Act_1921_(ukpga_19210055_en).pdf/94 Page:Minutes_of_War_Cabinet_Meeting_2,_11_December_1916.djvu/1 Page:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large_-_vol_9.djvu/89 Page:The Air Force Role In Developing International Outer Space Law (Terrill, 1999).djvu/31 Page:Veeck_v_Southern_Building_Code_Congress_Intl.pdf/2

Most recent Block

I'd like an explanation.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:50, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Copy of notes sent to ResidentScholar , Beeswax Candle and sDrewth (Billingshurst)

(These are noted here in the interests of disclosure).

Compromise posted to Beeswaxcandle (for reference)

Having had a chance to think about this, I am going to offer a compromise,

  • That the original issue about the speed of validation leading to incorrect validations, is not now disputed. (I still maintain that there was no malicious disruptive intent attempted, on my part. I.E This was an issue of speed and rigour not a conspiracy.)
  • That I was requested to cease proofreading isn't contested (the concern is on the relevant talkpage), even though I have concerns about when messages were actually read by myself as opposed to having been sent.
  • That those bold edits(undertaken in good faith) in attempted cleanup, should have taken place AFTER a discussion and not before.
  • That attempts to clarify the issue may have not have been as neutral as desirable under the circumstances.
  • That it was over-bold to start reviewing the other users contributions for

errors, when my own ability and editing conduct in that area had been called into question,and given the request for a disscusion.

My proposed remedy is as follows :

  1. The original 1 week block gets extended to 1 month ( owing to concerns about the handling of the response.) A week is also not long enough to find and resolve all the contested validations in my view, although some of it's already been undertaken.
  1. A Second checkuser is undertaken to make sure that me and "the other user" definitely aren't the same entity, or working in conjunction.
  1. Implementation of a 'topic-ban' on either of my accounts changing a page to validated status for a period to determined in discussion.
  1. Concerns found with pages already validated or proofread to be noted on a designated talk page, where they could be confirmed and fixed by other contributors.
  1. I'd like to extend a request for assistance in respect of ensuring that

future OCR cleanup isn't missing errors.

You have full permission to raise this compromise on wiki( sending it by mail in case there are any additional points you'd like to clarify or resolve.

-- This e-mail was sent by ShakespeareFan00 to Beeswaxcandle by the "E-mail user" function at Wikisource.

Copy of concerns sent to BeeswaxCandle (in regard to onging issue), copy for reference to Resident Scholar.

Not that I am qualified to comment on this but in the last comments on their talk page, I am getting the a distinct impression that ResidentScholar doesn't want to loose face, when their actions are critically examined. That they show enthusiasm for protecting Wikisource is admirable, (and most of they other blocks they've implemented seem to be completely justified against spam accounts).

Widux is noted as having claimed ( although rather too agressively) that ResidentScholar was "trigger happy". Whilst I can't support what seems to be a personal attack, the confrontational approach and characterisation towards users show in recent talk page comments, does make me concerned. Whilst I don't expect an admin to be conciliatory towards "vandals". I would expect them to at least respond, when asked to explain what was considered "disruptive". I recall asking at least 3 times what the specific issues were, even e-mailing Resident Scholar directly asking them to state clamly what it was. I

(From the comment you and others have made it seems the issue was about the speed and rigour being applied to validations.). To me a characterisation of Vandalism implies a malicious intention as opposed to merely negligent implementation of an action taken in good faith. So far I've note seen any evidence of a 'malicious' intent, only a series of unfortunate coincidences.

I would also draw attention to the last comments I sent you, I somehow doubt that a vandal with malicious intention would be willing to compromise. The original block was a week , (I suggested expanding it a month, because of the issue about response to the first block.)

I note that ResidentScholar is now posting a timeline of what they understood to have taken place. So far I am not seeing any evidence of collusion.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:25, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your various emails, including those above. I advise you to hold off on contacting admins off-wiki (including IRC) for a few days. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:39, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Email to Billingshurst on second compromise position

I do not have any objections to blocking Sfan00_IMG (it's an alternate, but it seems to have created too many problems, like not seeing talk page notices,or giving the impression of block avoidance.), I would however with assistance and supervision like to recovery the sub-pages which amongst other things contain test code for some templates I (or rather I editing as Sfan00_IMG) was heavily involved in developing.

Removing auto-patrol seems to be an excellent suggestion, and during this, I'd already e-mailed jayvdb requesting this. I'm also if it's possible (and after the above mentioned sub-pages are retrieved, surrendering page-mover/file mover etc..)

I'd personally be opposed to an immediate lifting of the main account block, you note that the response wasn't exactly neutral, and it seems reasonable this is taken into consideration. I'd also be opposed to an immediate lifting on the basis that they may still be unresolved validation/proofreading concerns (see my previous e-mail, for an example.), I'm distinctly unsure if we've reached the bottom on this.

I am however completely in agreement with you that the quality fell below acceptable standards. Subsequent checks suggest (by myself and others) seem to spot the proof-reading errors with the accuracy level required.

You state you'd like information on how to improve the edit quality, I think based on my own views if this proceeds as follows (if the block is lifted.):

  • I limit myself to say 12 distinct pages an hour when contributing, although I feel it may take considerably longer than 5 mins to fully transcribe and then check certain pages.
  • I do not flag pages as validated.
  • I do not flag pages as proofread.
  • I do not attempt 'fixes' on previously proofread or validated pages (Although I would like permission to note concerns on an appropriate page.)
  • I don't edit (or create new) templates for now (Although I would request permission to voice concerns in an appropriate
  • I don't attempt to set up the Main-space transclusions for now ( I can recall a recent effort where a large number of template transclusions 'broke' the software due to hitting template limits.)
  • I do not under any circumstances take a Wikisource issue off-wiki. (This has caused enough friction already.)
  • That rather than try and work across the whole of Wikisource, I work in conjunction with an experienced contributor, on getting a SINGLE work up to an acceptable standard. (The Public General Statutes scans should be suitable as a starting point for this as the formatting is largely template determined.)
  • That there is a regular review of the edits being undertaken.

I handled this badly. -- This e-mail was sent by ShakespeareFan00 to Billinghurst by the "E-mail user" function at Wikisource.

You can stop emailing me. BWC is handling the matter, and my mailbog is just ugly. Here is probably still a useful place for the majority of conversations IMO. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:36, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
OK.. I will place future comments here, which is more in line with issues concerning transparency in any event. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:52, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Account merge

I've noted the following: - Wikisource:AN#Wish_to_cancel_or_close_my_wikisource_account In this it seems there was an extension to merge accounts (although it's not currently installed.)

I am also noting that there was a concern expressed (above and in the WS:AN thread) about the use of an alternate account.

I'd therefore like to make a formal request for an account merge of Sfan00_IMG back into this account (ShakespeareFan00). I've got no objections to a checkuser being performed to confirm that the two accounts are associated. Because of the block I can't request this from the alternate account currently, even though confirmation from it would under other circumstances be desirable.)

Following the merge, The Sfan00_IMG account which would be created automatically by an SUL login (I'm not sure how to disable this auto creation) could be blocked indefinitely as per the WS:AN thread.

I'd appreciate the view of administrator or crat on this as it would require technical assistance. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:35, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorting out the two accounts

Hi, Billinghurst has moved your subpages across from SFan00 IMG to be subpages of this account. We can't currently do the account history merge you mention in the thread above and it has some bugs still that wouldn't be helpful. As a result when you start validating again (after expiry of the agreed period) you will need to be very careful not to validate pages that you worked on under the alternate account. We can discuss strategies for this at the time. Is there anything else that needs to be migrated? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:43, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

(In response)

There is the issue of the main user page, which needs to be carefully merged into the main User page.

For this purpose will you need both accounts to be unblocked while you do it, or will you be able to do this from just the main account? I guess what I'm really getting at is do we need to temporarily unblock Sfan00 IMG so that you can retrieve things or can we take it straight to indef and just leave you with your main account? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:25, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't need 'edit' access to the other account to recover the source code View Source tab ?

And retrieved although within a comment on this page until the unblock is completed. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:31, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Other remaining issues

  • Possible revalidation of pages flagged as validated from either account. - On a cursory scan I'm still finding typos, and my contribution history from Sfan00 is somewhat prolific.
  • Clarification as to if I should apply the agreed contribution cap to all namespaces. I'd prefer it if I was not talk page limited, but that needs a discussions. The intention was that when I found concerns I'd leave a talk page note.
  • Clarification about re-reads of past contributions ( Comments being noted on a suitable talk page, see above.)

There may be others. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:05, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

I'll sort this lot out with you once we've got the accounts sorted out. If this happens while I'm offline (next few hours) then maybe restrict yourself to continuting to sort out the Short Titles Act. It would be good see this progress. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:25, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
One remaining issue I've just thought of concerns , pages that link to the moved subpages.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:31, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Block Lifted?

Just checked my contributions page, the block is seemingly lifted.

I am not going to immediately start contributing again because there are still some concerns remaining. So I am in effect awaiting a "go" from the admins. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:12, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the block has been lifted. Let's now work out where to start again. We want you to avoid validating pages for a while. Let's get you back into the swing of proofreading first. I want you to pick a couple of your projects that really interest you and focus on those. I suggest a maximum of three to begin with, but select them so that they are on different topic areas. That way you can give yourself variety without exhausting yourself.

I also suggest you watch progress through Index:Mediaevalleicest00billrich.djvu. An editor with an interest in this work is going to validate it with me in the background. Have a look at the sorts of things we pick up and see if there's a pattern to them. This will help you work out what your common errors are. (Those unclosed templates you picked up is one of my common errors.)

I've temporarily taken the auto-patrolled flag off your account so that it's easier to find your edits on RC. Once we've got the flow going again, we'll put the flag back with no hesitations.

Let me know if there's anything else you want me to cover for the immediate first period. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:47, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

See Section Page Quality Issues at the top of this page. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:03, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Please feel free to start marking pages as Proofread

Hi, I've had a look through your contributions from the last couple of days. I am more than happy for you to use the "Proofread" status for pages that you have completed ready for someone else to Validate. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:42, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm working on a 3 step verification. I.E Whilst I may typeset and format to an acceptable level, I am not going to mark stuff I've been the primary cleanup operative on as 'Proofread'. If you feel some of my recent efforts by all means upgrade them.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:04, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Inadvertent IP block

Sorry about that. It certainly wasn't intentional. Your ISP must use a set of rotating IP addresses and this is the first time since the block that they've assigned you that IP again. I've amended the original block, so that it shouldn't happen again. However, if it does let me know and I'll get advice on how to prevent it. Best, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:25, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Well , given that you get 'sockpuppet' theatres, I was puzzled, but not overly concerned, given the software was working as intended. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:29, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, and a question

Hi ShakespeareFan, thanks for helping out with A Basic Guide to Open Educational Resources! Your edits helped me understand several things. The main one being how to set the status: I read all the pages I could find about Match and split but could not figure out whether or how it applied to this project. From your edit, I surmise that M&S only applies to documents that have already been transcribed prior to the upload of an OCR-layered PDF or DJVU? If so, I'd like to update the relevant help pages to reflect that, to make this clearer to future WSers.

Also, I'm curious: why did you label this cover "problematic"? Does it have to do with the need to provide the logos? I'd appreciate any insights into your thinking on this! Thanks, -Pete (talk) 04:13, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

On your second point, it is indeed to do with the need to provide the logos, and on the rear cover the Uniceoe recycling symbol.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:21, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! I will try to come up with an elegant solution (but may be impeded by copyright). Any suggestions welcome. -Pete (talk) 17:07, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Another category for music?

Hi, do we really need a fourth category for pages that need music to be added? We've already got Category:Pages requiring musical examples, Category:Pages containing sheet music, and Category:Texts with missing musical scores. If you're thinking about tracking pages that use the Score extension we can find these through Special:PagesWithProp. Pages with scores on them will have the "score" page property set. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:09, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I Personally think those category might need to be combined :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 07:55, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Oh, I agree with that. What I'm mainly working on is the first category (which I created not knowing about the second). Once it's been emptied I'll get rid of it. The second category, because it's populated by a template, is the one that should stay. The page Help:Sheet music page needs re-writing and as a part of that we can tell editors to use the appropriate template(s). Ideally the template would be in the "missing" series, so {{missing music}} or {{missing score}} would be redirects to whatever the current name is. Probably also need to look at where "Pages containing" and "Texts with missing" are sitting in the category tree. Hesperian didn't find the first of these where he expected to and so created the second. So many things to do and not enough time. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:27, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
I obviously wasn't explicit enough.
In respect of point 3 - last night I redirected my template.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 07:29, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

New document

I am sorry I am trying to paste a document about the Statutes of Laborers 1351, to be clear I don't know what the havoc I am doing and please help me find a way to create a document, please & thank you. --GoShow (talk) 15:41, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


I have deleted Easton's Bible Dictionary (1897)/B-D as requested. Note that Wikisource:WikiProject Bible dictionaries will need to be fixed at some point. Hesperian 00:39, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Pentagon Papers

Thanks for helping out on the Pentagon Papers! It's appreciated :) GorillaWarfare (talk) 01:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

"How do you do left aligned text in a right aligned block?"

You use {{float right}}, and then follow it with {{-}} to ensure the float is cleared before normal text is resumed. Hesperian 10:24, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

float right

{{right|text<br />texttext}}


{{float right|text<br />texttext}} text

Pretty certain that it explains that at {{right}} anyway — billinghurst sDrewth 16:04, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
If you need a clear area before or after use {{--}} — billinghurst sDrewth 16:07, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:08, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Wikisource User Group

Wikisource, the free digital library is moving towards better implementation of book management, proofreading and uploading. All language communities are very important in Wikisource. We would like to propose a Wikisource User Group, which would be a loose, volunteer organization to facilitate outreach and foster technical development, join if you feel like helping out. This would also give a better way to share and improve the tools used in the local Wikisources. You are invited to join the mailing list 'wikisource-l' (English), the IRC channel #wikisource, the facebook page or the Wikisource twitter. As a part of the Google Summer of Code 2013, there are four projects related to Wikisource. To get the best results out of these projects, we would like your comments about them. The projects are listed at Wikisource across projects. You can find the midpoint report for developmental work done during the IEG on Wikisource here.

Global message delivery, 23:22, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Status of Chronoogical Tables

Hi SF,

The detail of statute law isn't really my area of expertise. Let me see if I can find an expert and get back to you. --Mr impossible (talk) 11:42, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, BTW I've got no objections to my transcription efforts here being used on BTW, given that when I last checked some of the items I transcribed here didn't have 'original text' versions available only the original PDF.

In consulting with your colleagues (longer-term) answers to the following may also aid efforts here.

In terms of other specific suggestions or enquiries : (i) Is there a standard form for short titles to primary legislation, I ask because I wrote {{Short title}} here to aid cross referencing, and wanted to be sure I was generating the format correctly.

(ii) Is there a table of known errata in Ruffhead, (I had noted a table of numbering differences in the 1877 chronological table)?

(iii) The site contains a table of Local/Private Acts, is this now under OGL, so it could be carefully transcribed here?

Thank you for taking the time to respond. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:25, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

/* proofreading /*

Please proofread some more of "A Memoir of the Last Year of the War for Independence in the Confederate States of America". I have almost finished the validating. —Maury (talk) 01:59, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Will do, Thanks ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:45, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
ShakespeareFan00, you do good work which is the reason I came to you. Are you a Southerner? I was born and raised in Virginia. Marriage to a Texas lady brought me to Texas. —Maury (talk) 21:43, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
No Sir, I am British!

I was merely trying to clear down some old items in my backlogs.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:47, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Understood. I have British ancestry. I was curious as to why you chose a book on the American Confederacy but then I have a 2nd work underway about British ships. —Maury (talk) 22:06, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Pure chance, ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:10, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for working on the book with me. As I have stated before, you do good work. The book, "A Memoir of the Last Year of the War for Independence", needs about 3 edits from you that I recall and then it will be completed. Kind Regards, —Maury (talk) 04:01, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
Which pages? I wasn't sure on how to handle the statistical tables in thepages unproofread..ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:12, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
Yes, those are the pages but perhaps I can find someone to do those since they are few. I know you can validate page 127 since I did that one.

Thank you for the edit in the Southern Historical Society "Papers". Yes, I can do what is needed in the History of the Anti corn law league. Would you in turn validate the rest of the Southern Historical Society Papers volume One? Almost all of that is validated but the other portion is not validated and half needs to be validated -- for the same reason you have with the History of the Anti corn law league. Wikisource needs more like us who will work together. Best, —Maury (talk) 15:53, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll have a look, bear in mind I may prgress a LOT slower.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:03, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
That's okay. I just arrived after taking a nap so I am already behind you and we're in no hurry. My book has been sitting and waiting to be validated for over a year. That's what slows anyone down, the validating. Have a good day ShakespeareFan00. —Maury (talk) 20:55, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

ShakespeareFan00, I sincerely do thank you for the editing you did today! You're swift and accurate! —Maury (talk) 22:24, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Corn law Leaguge Book and other matters. ShakespeareFan00, I saw your message only moments ago and have read it well. I understand your points made. It is strange that the system showed No Alert to me. I just happened to look there. Anyhow, are you going to proofread any more pages on your Corn Law book anytime soon? Can we trade work as before? Kindest regards, —Maury (talk) 09:38, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

I was still considering the SHP pages you asked about, but I can do a proof-read pass on these ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:39, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
Your call. I remain aware that you worked hard getting your "Corn Law Leaguge" book here and I sincerely do respect that. I have had similar so I understand the task. I worked hard getting the SHSP (Southern Historical Society Papers) volumes in shape to be proofread and validated. It seems that we both can just do several pages of each other's project as we recently did. We do not have to a lot in a hurry but rather a few at a time. We have each other backing the other up with help in whatever needs to be done. I don't sign with "Respectfully, for no reason. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 09:57, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
Any chance of finishing up the "Southern Historical Society Papers volume 01"? If not then how about "Southern Historical Society Papers volume 03"? Someone else is doing "Southern Historical Society Papers volume 02. I have validated a lot of The Alamo and will continue in several spurts. I thank you for what you have done and any further consideration. —Maury (talk) 07:06, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
That was next on my list :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:52, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
I thank God and you when that SHSP-01 volume is finally through. It has been sitting there for about 3 years now, proofread for the most part, but yet always un-validated even though it had a good start. —Maury (talk) 19:25, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

How to disambiguate authors in {{Hymn/header}}?

Hi, I'm just looking at Page:The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu/100 and the author link to Thomas Moore is a dab page. Obviously it's the Irish poet, but how do we do the link to him without the dates showing up at the top of the hymn? No rush on this, as it doesn't affect setting the score, but it would be good to sort it before we transclude the page. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:57, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Not sure on this., Bear in mind Hymn header wasn't designed explicitly to cope with dabs. I suggest asking on the Scriptorum for suggestions, as coding templates to cope with dabs isn't my strong point. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:59, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
{{ci-author}} already has a years param, and reading the code for it, doesn't display the years automatically. From there a possible solution should present itself. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:02, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

The West Australian

The scans of e.g. Index:The West Australian, 1884-07-31.djvu are actually just readable (e.g.) but they're just not displayed well in the proofread interface. Not sure what to do about this; I've tried upping the resolution, but it doesn't seem to help. Anyway, these newspapers should probably just be left out of Wikisource, considering that they're in good hands in the National Library of Australia! What do you think? — Sam Wilson ( TalkContribs ) … 00:49, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Armistice Day contributions

Thanks for your work on Armistice Day. Sectioning is not necessary, however, as the work is being transcluded into text parts as opposed to individual poetry, etc. pieces (see). Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:09, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Trying to at least get some of this proofread by November ;) , Any Validation assistance would be appreciated. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:59, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
I'll gladly validate some... If I can keep up with you ;) Also, for text uniformity's sake, instead of poem tags, block center and breaks are utilized for poetry. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:29, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

I have noticed some poetry pages marked as proofread, but with lines which require indentation not being indented. I don't mind coming along and adding {{gap}}s as I validate, but they really shouldn't be marked as proofread until complete. Also, I'm not sure at what point in proofreading you add the missing emdashes to the text, but I find it helpful to add them as I go along word by word, line by line instead of before or after the meat of proofreading. Fewer are missed this way. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:04, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

noted - Wasn't sure what indentation style you were actually using. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:32, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Got anything to do?

Hello, ShakespeareFan00. I have validated some more of your Alamo project and was wondering if you have any time to work on my SHSP Volume four (4)? I certainly don't want you to be sleeping. <smile> Respects, —Maury (talk) 22:28, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

See Previous comments . I am alreayd trying to get something else done :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:31, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
Okey Dokey. —Maury (talk) 11:41, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

ShakespeareFan00, I am the only person placing 200 images on "Face to Face With the Mexicans". I have often used red to indicate something for myself. Please stop coloring them back to purple. If there were many people working there it would make sense but there aren't. However, the SHSP volumes I asked you help for in the above remains, So, when you do have spare time please edit some on SHSP volumes 3 or 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 - 41. There are a lot of yellow squares on volume 4. Please look them over and use your green crayon. They have been colored yellow for several years now. Kind regards and thank you for any consideration. —Maury (talk) 23:54, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Noted.. Thanks for the explanation :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:56, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
I had to explain because nobody knows what I am doing except me with those 200 images. Using your green crayon and coloring only 40 mere pages would be fine for today.  . Bless ya bro! Kind regards, —Maury (talk) 00:13, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
I thank you kindly for any and all donations to the ever-nearing of All Hallows Eve of en.wickedsource. <smile> —Maury (talk) 00:48, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

History of the Ten "Lost" Tribes

Just to let you know, I've now transcluded one of the books you pretty much entirely proofread (Index:David Baron – The History of the Ten "Lost" Tribes.djvu) into the mainspace (at The History of the Ten "Lost" Tribes). Thanks for all the work (and for inspiring me to finish it off), but watch out for OCR mistakes! --xensyriaT 23:33, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Canadian Poems of the Great War

Let us know if you want to still work on this book, so we can either put a warning tag on it while we wait for it to get finished or do a copyright search, and then you could ask Billinghurst put a tag on it to move it from Commons to English Wikisource. I added more discussion of the book at WS:CV. ResScholar (talk) 07:38, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Because of the concerns at WS:CV, I've withdrawn from contributing on this, given that I can't be sure about the status of some works. ( Even though it's a pre 1923 publication in the US). ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:10, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Reinstatement of poems

When you reinstate poems, should you not also promote them back to proofread status instead of leaving them as problematic? Would you like me to go through them and do so with the pages you have reinstated? Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:10, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Feel free. If you can get someone other than me to validate , also feel free. BTW I've managed to rescue a few more entries after some exhaustive searching of renewal record for one item. Can't say we aren't researching. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:15, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
"Saecla Ferarum"'s pages are tagged as proofread. Should they be marked as problematic? Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:24, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
No, because they are now marked up correctly per the redaction (see the note on the starting page) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:27, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
Should we ask George to "reinstate" the text image for this page—which was found to be pre-1923? Also, Duncan Campbell Scott's poems, "After Battle", "The Fallen", and "To the Canadian Mothers" were all published in Beauty and Life (1921, published in Canada). Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:40, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
Yes, if we have confirmation - You might want to add a note to your table, calrfiying why it was listed incorrectly.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:42, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

George found (and documented on the table) that The Crowning of Peace was good to go if you want to reinstate those pages. I don't think I can revert myself. Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:58, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Already noted.. and reinstated. Thanks :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:59, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

"The Unknown Soldier Honored by England" was published in The Christian Advocate in 1920.

If you are in the US, then feel free to reinstate it. Technically Gibbs's work isn't out of UK copyright yet(and won't be until 2032), so I would not feel happy doing so right now.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:57, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
How do you perform the reinstatement exactly if not via reversion? Are you copy/pasting from a previous edit? Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:01, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
History search - Find the last revsion before blanking - View that revision - Edit - save (selcting proofread/problematic as needed). 01:04, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
Ok. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:06, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
And that leaves "Nocturne in a Library" to be checked for a renewal. Thanks ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:22, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
I found the text of "Nocturne" published in a 1917 work listed as Sonnet I and II of "Eight Sonnets." I reinstated the poem, if that's okay. Not sure if it makes a difference whether the title is different/absent. Perhaps you might know? Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:36, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
I don't, but that's perfectly reasonable. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:03, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
BTW I Started an author table for the Candian Poets work. There are some gaps though :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:22, 19 October 2013 (UTC)


Hello, ShakespeareFan00. You have new messages at Wylve's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Wylve (talk) 16:39, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Quote omitted for copyright reasons

I've re-inserted the quoted poem in the page Page:Book Of Halloween(1919).djvu/32. As a 1919 American-published book, I'm pretty sure it is in the public domain in the United States.

If it is still under copyright then simply not transcribing it will not be enough. The page-scan itself would need to be altered to omit the poem.

For my reasoning: Gerhart Hauptmann died in 1946, so his work will not be out of copyright in Germany until 2017. That doesn't affect Wikisource, however, because the URAA doesn't affect works published before 1923 reagrdless of location. The translator, Ludwig Lewisohn, died in 1955 but he was publishing in the United States at the time, so that doesn't matter. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 12:55, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

OK. I've omitted some other quotes, you may wish to reinstate. Please excuse my caution. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:57, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
I didn't have the time to validate everything but when I realised that wasn't going to happen I started working in the images. All the pages are up and running to at least proofread now. I looked into Peter and Wendy again: the US copyright is on a later play, which came out after this book, so that can't be the source for the quote. I'm not sure how Commons would handle the UK copyright of a single line extract from something that isn't quite under copyright—but that isn't our problem. All the chapters should be transcluded properly and small errors rresolved. As it happens, I added it to New Texts with less than a minute to spare for Hallowe'en itself. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 00:05, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
Thanks.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:07, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

/* Thank You */

ShakespeareFan00 , thank you for your validations on the Mexico book today. You are forever catching me missing nop at the bottom of pages but I plan to soon stop missing them. I miss them below image pages sometimes. Old habits are sometimes hard to break. Learn wrong and continue to do wrong. Again, I sincerely do thank you. Kindest regards, —Maury (talk) 00:18, 28 October 2013 (UTC) _________

Southern Historical Society Papers.

ShakespeareFan00, you validated many of the SHSP pages but what is the   for? They all are being removed as being incorrect (formatting) as I see from my watchlist.—Maury (talk) 04:30, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

The   in the headers was a simple fix header to resolve a problem with the headers, I was seeing. I fail to see how ensuring the header spacing is correct by using null cells is bad formatting.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 06:29, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

where did you see "bad" formatting? I wrote "incorrect" formatting only because it is being removed. I myself don't know and come to you only to ask what is the purpose? I myself see no difference in having the   and not having it other than in edit mode. It seems to me it is correct either way, with or without. However, some people are very particular with editing and will make edits as they think is best. Too, some like things all looking the same just as you use   and others don't. I ask when I don't know so I can learn. Kind regards, —Maury (talk) 15:04, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

I think the issue that caused it to be needed has been resolved as the pages on which it's omitted render acceptably for me. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:20, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
ShakespeareFan00, thank you so much for the work you did on the book. I would have worked the text and it still would have had to be transcluded which you have already done. For quite awhile I have been working on increasing the Mexican Portal or a portal akin to it. I and another have taken our works into the real world to do good in Chiapas, Mexico. I hope to build a library from these texts there. That also involves converting English to Spanish. The idea, or a little part of it, is to educate a poor village there with around 1600 people and especially to get the children there educated. These people are Mayan descendants and they speak Ch'ol. They are learning Spanish and hopefully they will also learn English as time passes. When Cortez passed through their ancestors fled into a thick jungle and were not found by Cortez so thus was the Mayan language itself preserved from invading Spaniards. You have helped to take this text to them by doing what you did. I Thank you and I thank God. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 16:20, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

"Check please"

"When Cos......

—Maury (talk) 16:06, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Yep vs Nop/e


Does a {{nop really belong at the end of this page


 ? I thought that as long as a sentence continues a nop is not applied but is applied when the sentence is concluded which in this situation the sentence concludes on the next page. I do not know so I ask. The nop template is not clear about this for me. —Maury (talk) 15:59, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Multiple images & descriptions

I fixed the multiple images & descriptions of Page:Sheet Metal Drafting.djvu/17 and Page:Sheet Metal Drafting.djvu/18 but I recommend that you validate the pages because I found that some text was missing. I also noticed an "{{Anchor|3" and I am not sure if anchors - like all javascript codes - should begin with a letter. I use the djvu page number as part of the anchor to know later where they are placed as in: {{anchor|D17-1 . . . . {{anchor|D17-2 . . . . . in case a page has more than one anchor. This can be seen HERE. I hope this helps.— Ineuw talk 19:00, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

commons:Category:Sheet Metal Drafting (book) images upload completed

The title says it all. Good luck with the project.— Ineuw talk 06:43, 25 December 2013 (UTC)


<math> \scriptstyle reduces the math symbol sizes to inline. You can see its application in THIS SANDBOX. Also, I couldn't help the challenge of designing that table at the back of the book. Hope I didn't upset you.— Ineuw talk 22:01, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

This is a collaborative project, Fix away :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:06, 25 December 2013 (UTC)


Appreciate your help in the book. However,when a page is saved as is, means I am working on the text, thus kindly leave them alone until proof read. Thank you--Raúl Gutiérrez (talk) 18:18, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Whenever anyone is still editing on any page <= can be used at the top, in the header field, to alert all others. This is what it looks like:

Kind regards to the both of you and have a wonderful Happy New Year. —Maury (talk) 03:15, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


I'm suggesting on Index talk:On the Pollution of the Rivers of the Kingdom.djvu that {{Outside L}} and {{Outside RL}} are a better method than {{sn-paragraph}}, if only because they only have to be applied where the footnote actually is and not smeared over following pages. We are in some danger of getting into an edit war so I will lay off until I hear your thoughts.--Keith Edkins (talk) 13:53, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I was using {{sn-paragraph}} as it's more flexible.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:55, 4 January 2014 (UTC)


I think there's a broadly understood social contract here, that when someone is reading a book cover to cover, and has personally proofed 454 pages of it, another contributor won't suddenly take it into their head to step in and proofread the next page. Please go find something else to work on. Hesperian 12:17, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Noted. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:27, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
Ta. Hesperian 12:28, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
If you like I can start a validation run on the one you are proofreading. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:30, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Crazy templates

I don’t know how the average person can be expected to work out the machinations of these beasts. I’ve used up all of my patience. Since you introduced it, are you able to get Page:Twelve Years a Slave (1853).djvu/17-24 transcluding correctly? Moondyne (talk) 14:12, 6 February 2014 (UTC)


Hello. You might recall some time ago you asked me to review this, and I am sorry to say I had to refuse you at the time due to ongoing internet problems at my end. Well at last they appear to have been at least partially resolved.

Do you still need me to look at anything (if so, basic guidance please, as the sandbox currently appears to be completely empty), or otherwise I trust everything is by now to your satisfaction?

Regards, Viewer2 (talk) 00:52, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Check the code.. , The actual display will be blank on the Template:Page as the template switches stuff internally...

Probably should be lua really.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:23, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Please accept my apologies. I looked too quickly and jumped to entirely the wrong conclusion.
Please bear with me whilst I try to get back into synch (this may turn out to be the day I actually discover an application for Special:Diff.) I am assuming these are the relevant changes: Special:Diff/4737128/4737151? Can you please give me some idea what you were trying to do/improve/correct? While awaiting your response I'll try to make sense of things as well, so I hope will be a little better informed by the time we next converse. Viewer2 (talk) 05:27, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
What I was trying to do was to sort out a layout issue to do with indented margin notes etc.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:25, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
O.K. Here are my initial impressions:
  1. Most important, the thing works, and appears to work well. This is a credit to you.
  2. The internal nesting is confusing, and all things being equal it might be best to split the template so that only one #switch appears in each sub-template.
  3. Many of the #switch alternate blocks generate divs with very similar stylings (except for left/right-specific variations.) Once more, perhaps consider creating a sub-template which accepts the variation as a parameter, and invoke that several times? I strongly suggest "passing" in the variant values, rather than a parameter "left"/"right" and end up embedding all the alternatives within the sub-template. (Your coding style may be at odds with this, and your personal preference might be to keep everything together. I have no problems if this is your call.)
  4. Although they are not at present causing any problems, I notice you have a number of extra "|"s between alternate blocks within #switch sets. Be wary of these, because you never know how they might trip you up later if you change the logic. As you seem to have used them for vertical spacing (i.e. code-viewing visual effect only), might I suggest they be replaced by line-crossing <!-- ... --> HTML comments instead?
Hope this helps at least a little. Viewer2 (talk) 23:49, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
If you can figure out how to split the template down, feel free. I've got to the point of not wanting to change the logci to radically..ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:40, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
This speaks to my top point: the thing just works! My advice at this stage is not to change the template at all; to continue to use it and recommend its use to others as you have already been doing. The situations under which it is likely to be utilised do not tend toward situations where its relative complexity may cause resource issues, and if such emerge then proceed to Stage 2.
Stage 2 (full review and rewrite) should only be triggered by the resource situation described above, or if an actual fault or shortcoming is revealed. Until then, the potential disruption of tidying the template for the sake of doing so is just not worth it.
Those were my 2c. Viewer2 (talk) 01:08, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

CBSPL entry

Could you take a look at the question I asked on the Scriptorium? Once you've got me straightened out I hope I can get the template working the way we want it to. Thanks! Prosody (talk)

ShakespeareFan, once again I congratulate you on your work, and thank you for assisting me in the past. I'm having a problem with the CBSPL template, on page 24. could you take a look at it when you have time? Legofan94 (talk) 13:54, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much for figuring that issue out friend, it's much appreciated. I would like your opinion on another issue of formatting though. As you can see on page 24, for each new title written by the same author, it displays a placeholder bar that hyperlinks to the page of that author. However the transcription is inconsistent, and other pages lack this. Should I try and copy this for each relevant page?Legofan94 (talk) 22:02, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

If you want to.. Ideally I'd used the lastname, firstname approach so that stuff indexed, with the overrides where needed. However, in reformatting, it would be nice to try and turn some of the redlinks, blue by expanding the names if possible. I didn't feel confident in doing that having done a lot of transcription. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:49, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Pope's Iliad

Thanks, great work. ~ DanielTom (talk) 19:30, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Demoted validated pages

Hi, can I assume that where you have demoted pages in works that have been marked as completely validated you will either demote the Index proofreading status, or get those pages back into validated status within the next few hours? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:58, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Will demote the works... Thanks . The issues is because adding a simple "dotted" leader seems to be beyond mediawiki's parser <sigh> ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:01, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. Do we actually need the dotted leaders in most cases? Often they're only a printer's trick rather than an essential display item. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:11, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Well it depends if you want perfect to page- proofreading.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:44, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks both, and Beeswaxcandle,—there has been discussion about the issue at the Scriptorium/help section. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the agreement is to go ahead and simplify, which ShakespeareFan and yourself have already started doing (with some formatting differences). I was going to help out, but I think adding my inability to the mix would only guarantee a mess! But I think what needs to be done now is to agree upon which formatting style (citing a page example) should be used, and then conform the rest and set back to proofread. By the way, BWC, there is a second question I posted in the Help section which follows the first, if you want to take a look at it and give your opinion. It involves an "orphaned" poem ("Epigram") in the work that is not accounted for in the TOC. Thanks :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:02, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Table help

Hi, thank you for your work on A Basic Guide to Open Educational Resources! Your edits today were very serendipitous -- I just last night encountered a similar issue, and was wondering where to turn for help. You can see the "hack" I worked out, when I wasn't able to get the right combination of "noinclude" etc. to make both the pages and the rendered text work properly:

Open Education Resources (OER) for assessment and credit for students project/Main Text

Any chance you have a suggestion? I see that by putting "nop" in the headers and footers, along with the "ts" template of which I hadn't been aware, maybe there are some new options to play with.... -Pete (talk) 02:46, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Proofread page issues..


I am contacting you here because I thought you might read this page more often.

Over on English Wikisource(where I have the same user name) an issue arose with en:Page:Bradshaw's Monthly (XVI).djvu/9 in that the scan should be in landscape orienation.

Would it be possible for you to implement a 'Landscape View" option for the Proofread page extension?

And also a "Landscape view" facility for the associated Edit page?

This would assist the transcription of some works without the need to modify the original scans extensively.


If you would like to respond please use my talk page on English Wikisource. ShakespeareFan00 (discuter) 29 mai 2014 à 18:42 (CEST)

Hi! Implementing such feature would require to add an editable option to every Page: pages for, I think, a very specific use case. So, I believe that a gadget on Wikimedia Commons that would allow to rotate some pages of a djvu file may be a better idea (it's fairly easy to implement). You should maybe talk with the creator of the RotateLink gadget about it. Tpt (talk) 19:29, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
What I was suggesting was that the 'scanned' image be presented in a Landscape rotation when being viewed or edited. I was trying to avoid having the underlying scans modified too extensively. An attempt at a quick and dirty CSS3 rotation exits see User:ShakespeareFan00/rotate.js (copied from some code another contributor wrote), but this doesn't fully work as it doesn't resize the rotated image to fit or take into account a zoomed image.

A gadget at Commons would be useul, but would permenantly alter the scans.. Something I was trying to avoid doing ... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:03, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Automated import of openly licensed scholarly articles

Hello ShakespeareFan00,

We are putting together a proposal about the automated import of openly licensed scholarly articles, and since you are an active Wikisourceror, we'd appreciate yourcomments on the Scriptorium. For convenience, I'm copying our proposal here:

The idea of systematically importing openly licensed scholarly articles into Wikisource has popped up from time to time. For instance, it formed the core of WikiProject Academic Papers and is mentioned in the Wikisource vision. However, the Wikiproject relied on human power, never reached its full potential, and eventually became inactive. The vision has yet to materialise.
We plan to bridge the gap through automation. We are a subset of WikiProject Open Access (user:Daniel Mietchen, user:Maximilanklein, user:MattSenate), and we have funding from the Open Society Foundations via Wikimedia Deutschland to demo suitable workflows at Wikimania (see project page).
Specifically, we plan to import Open Access journal articles into Wikisource when they are cited on Wikipedia. The import would be performed by a group of bots intended to make reference handling more interoperable across Wikimedia sites. Their main tasks are:
  • (on Wikipedia) signalling which references are openly licensed, and link them to the full text on Wikisource, the media on Commons and the metadata on Wikidata;
  • (on Commons) importing images and other media associated with the source article;
  • (on Wikisource) importing the full text of the source article and embedding the media in there;
  • (on Wikidata) handling the metadata associated with the source article, and signalling that the full text is on Wikisource and the media on Commons.
These Open Access imports on Wikisource will be linked to and from other Wikimedia sister sites. Our first priority though will be linking from English Wikipedia, focusing on the most cited Open Access papers, and the top-100 medical articles.
In order to move forward with this, we need
  • General community approval
  • Community feedback on workflows and scrutiny on our test imports in specific.
  • Bot permission. For more technical information read our bot spec on Github.

Maximilianklein (talk) 18:18, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Why the changes to curly quotes?

The style guide is specific about straight and curly quotes Wikisource:Style guide#Formatting, yet you are going through and replacing. Further, there is a general agreement, that when a work is set in a particular way, that you don't go and change the work, well not without getting consensus on the change. You have been around long enough to understand those two basic concepts. Finish what you are doing, however, please don't do it again. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:47, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I was attempting to match the quote style across the work (it was me that largely proofread it to start with.).

I'd appreciate it being 'consistent', but given your concerns won't make further changes until we can come to a consensus. This means someone else should make the quote style consistent. No objections to you changing them back, but I wanted them to be consistent. I'll still make checks for other typographical concerns (like hyphen/m-dash) confusion. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:54, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

New diacritic templates

If you must create new templates for various diacritics please keep them in the same form and format as those we already have. e.g. {{a'}}, {{e^}}, {{u:}}. Please also ensure that they are categorised correctly. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:09, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Is the difference between {{Obreve}} and {{O-breve}} intended (ŏ vs. ō̆)? In this case naming is not really clear.--Mpaa (talk) 10:15, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes - I was going by the fact that {{o-}} is ō ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:18, 29 June 2014 (UTC) , I was substing anyway, So feel to rename so it's sensible.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:18, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Book covers

Would you look at Page:Secrets of Crewe House.djvu/1 and tell me a few things? My questions are:

  • if it should have the colon (I'm thinking probably yes?),
  • if it should use all caps (I'm thinking that matching the original is good), and
  • whether we try to mimic the original layout, e.g., by centering the word "by" before the author's name.

Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:44, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

  1. It probably should have the colon
  2. Original layout if possible.
  3. Match original capitalisation.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:47, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned page

is sitting on its lonesome, and needs some links to it. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:35, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Wasn't sure how to link this, possibly a Category: for Syria?ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:38, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Also this appears to be a 'rapid response' transcription. No objection to a 'match and split' if the original is on commons :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:42, 21 July 2014 (UTC)


Do you really think that these edits on Template:Wildflower are useful? Fifteen positional parameters? I would suggest that is a horrid practice, and that named parameters are the preferred methodology. Maybe one or two positional parameters may be acceptable if there is a couple that are always used, but not fifteen. I would ask that you undo those edits, and utilise positional parameters if you have used the template. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:48, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

You mean use named paramaters? I was intending to subst anywayShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:03, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Latin and such

The Latin Primer is one of those works that I've seen around for some time, and could help out with because I'm familiar with Latin, especially morphology and grammar, but I found this particular book rather wanting in clarity and application. There are much better books out there, but unfortunately they're all of fairly recent publication (50s or 60s at the oldest), and so could not be hosted on Wikisource. Among scholarly books, though, Moore's Comparative Greek and Latin Syntax (1934) might be PD now, but it would be a bear to edit and proofread. And it looks like Sturtevant's The Pronunciation of Greek and Latin (1940) won't be in PD for another eight years (d. 1952) at least.

As a result, I've chosen to focus on getting the literature (in translation) uploaded, with emphasis on Greek drama, its literary criticism, summaries, and related works. I would also like to see Tacitus, Ovid, and Horace up as well, and have made a start on Fyfe's translation of Tacitus' Histories.

Also on my mind is the fact that the 400th anniversary of the publication of the First Folio will be upon us in about 9 years, so I may switch to grinding carefully through that at some point in the near future. There are a number of issues with progress so far, including various inconsistencies in editing choices, and some decisions that were made without regard to what a Shakespearean scholar would want from a transcription of that volume. --EncycloPetey (talk) 08:19, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Please don't do main chapters of Index:Literary Landmarks of Oxford.djvu

This is an existing partial work, and I am going to look to match and split the existing work to the chapters, so they need to be untouched. So please don't proceed into the main part of the work until that has been done. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:11, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Noted, I was going to try and match and split myself, because I don't want to waste time. What I was doing was mostly the technical stuff for now. 13:14, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Something wrong with Table on page

There's something wrong with the Table on this page - Page:Civil Service Competitions.djvu/19. Could you please correct asap as I'm proofreading these pages for you to validate later. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 13:59, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

As I've OCR "cleaned" these I can't validate them but thanks for the encouraging words. ;) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:03, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Paradise Lost

I'm so excited to see that we're now much closer to having a well-sourced copy of this great work. Thanks for toiling away at it.

Question: Is there any longer a reason to use {{ls}} instead of simply inserting a long-s character? The former reasoning was primarily that the long-s wasn't recognized as an "s" by search engines, but it is recognized as such now. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:56, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Raise this in the Scriptorium, I was working from a previously agreed postion. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:50, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
I've started such a thread now. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:59, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


Hi there. I am not finding any reports in described in NARA's holdings from the Navy about Lusitania, but there are plenty of court reports and other records. See [2] for our catalog. Let me know if there is anything else I can help with. Dominic (talk) 14:14, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Do you have an opposite number Wikimedian in Residence in the UK? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:55, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
You could try w:User:Mr impossible to see if he has any contacts at The National Archives in the UK. Dominic (talk) 20:19, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Are you cleaning up Wikisource?

Please be kind to us. As a newbie Admin, I personally appreciate your initiative, I myself am a bit of a neat freak, but please keep in mind that this is a small community of regular contributors (~300) and if we are to do all the work you are dumping on us, we would never get a chance to do our own preferred proofreading work.

Given the fact that you are quiet capable to contribute in a more constructive way, please take the effort and do so. I base this on the observation of your contribution on Wikipedia where you have tagged numerous images for transfer to the commons, some of which I transferred.

Our process here is simple:

  1. Find the appropriate replacement on Internet Archive, preferably DjVu.
  2. Using the OAuth tool, transfer the work to the commons directly from IA. This option allows you to properly name the file.
  3. Create a Category on the commons to place the file in it. This is especially important for storing the images. Please see my contributions on the Commons.
  4. Create the Index: file on Wikisource, the name must be the same as on the Commons for proper linkage.
  5. Tag the old file for deletion using {{speedy}} or {{sdelete}}, they are the same thing.

I hope this helps you and the community. — Ineuw talk 19:37, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Hmm.. I was working on the assumption that there wasn't a deadline. However taking on board what you say it may be better to create a list somwehere else of the Google scans rather than the rather blunt approach being taken at the moment. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:42, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
That wasn't the object of my post, although you can move your dreamlist to your user page. It's not a matter of a deadline. I would like to see you to be more proactive in helping to perform the tasks.— Ineuw talk 19:50, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
In that case :). ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:55, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
Well I would use the OAuth tool in respect of - Index:An Encyclopædia of Cottage, Farm, and Villa Architecture and Furniture.djvu but it crashed out on me, so ....
I believe that the tool has to be initiated on the Commons. It is a tool managed by User:Tpt. Please leave him a message, because on my last try it also failed. Perhaps with two messages he will be more inclined to look into it. — Ineuw talk 01:21, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Moved list from Scriptorium

Index:Dombey and Son.djvu ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:54, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Index:Far from the Madding Crowd.djvu ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:58, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Index:Fasti ecclesiae Anglicanae Volume 3.djvuShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:00, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Index:A Pastoral Letter to the Parishioners of Frome.djvu

What is about this work that makes you believe that three people need to review the pages? If there is nothing, then I'll leave them to you to mark as proofread as the first of two people and then I'll validate. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:07, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Pure Courtesy, given that as I undesrstood it, you'd started on this one already. I tend to mark stuff I've cleaned up from the OCR layer as Not-Proofread on the first pass. If you want me to give it a second 'formal' proofreading pass it's on the To-Do list :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:38, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Additionally, I do sometimes miss things. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:42, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

I so wonder about your actions

I have just had to clean up after your actions here and at Commons re your deletion requests. Do you actually think about what you do, and the consequences of your actions? Why in the hell do you start that conversation at Commons? They don't give a toss about us, and delete things without much concern about our site, or the consequences. Here we would put in some efforts, to make the appropriate decision, and even look for author information. When you nominate and get the files deleted at Commons, we still have to investigate to meet our copyright tags [have you seen that they and us are different?], and if we can keep it, then the file needs to be undeleted (told you that Commons didn't care, no contact made to us) moved here, then re-deleted. Alternatively if we cannot keep it, then we have a non-functional index page, and then have to dig through the system to find the corresponding pages in the Page: ns, and delete those, then delete the Index: ns. I would have thought that you have been here long enough to not have to have this explained to you. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:47, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Noted. In future the issues will be raised at Wikisource:Proposed deletions first ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:50, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Your concern about PD-US only is also noted. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:56, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
See also your talk page. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:56, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for help on Creole Sketches!

Hi, as you may or may not have noticed, Creole Sketches is my first wikisource project, so I'm learning on the job, and any help and advice is welcome. My understanding of where it's at: it looks to me like pages 88-89, 106, and 168-9 are missing from the deja-vu file I imported from the Internet archive. In addition pp. 38-39 and 16-17 are scanned twice in the source file. If you can point me at the procedure for fixing errors in the underlying source file that would be appreciated, in particular for how to insert the missing pages (I think someone has modified the page index file to fix the duplicates problems). Any other advice about learning as I go is of course appreciated. Also, if this kind of help isn't your kind of thing, just let me know. Thanks, Dictioneer (talk) 02:59, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Do you know how to use DjvuLibre tools? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:33, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
Now that I know they exist, :) I will download and see if I can figure it out. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! Dictioneer (talk) 11:50, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Please stop simultaneous editing

@ShakespeareFan00: Could you please stop editing the same pages as I do? You could check who is editing what & where.— Ineuw talk 23:04, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

OK. But I did think this was a collobrative effort. Elsewhere you'd expressed a concern about wanting to do more on the PSM side of things. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:06, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
And I think that you should go to sleep. It's pretty late where you are. Just concerned for myself. — Ineuw talk 23:16, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
I wouldn't worry too much about that, I've done late night stuff before. I won't touch the PSM stuff unless you ask :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:18, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
You make life difficult. There are ~60 more volumes and ~40,000 pages to do. Pick a topic of preference and go for it.— Ineuw talk 23:27, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Retitled Work (remaining issues)

  • Index:Armatafragment00ersk.djvu, this has at least 400 pages, Whilst I'm perfectly willing to attempt a set of manual page moves/re-alignments, my thought was that this really should be automated to prevent errors, ( and I did check if Auto Wiki Browser would let me do this, it sadly won't). If there's a script that would allow me to do the move semi-automatically, I'd be perfectly willing to use it. Seemingly no raw images, No Transclusion yet. 1 link to an author page of the Index.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:34, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Page:The Solar System - Six Lectures - Lowell.djvu/54

Could you please insert the image for the above page. The index can then be validated. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 12:14, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

I'll add it to the to-do list. It's only that image that's of concern in the work? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:21, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Redundant index

Thanks for proofreading Bose's article. But that index is now redundant. You may consider moving the pages to Index:Collected Physical Papers.djvu. Hrishikes (talk) 16:37, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

  Done Pages moved and redundant index deleted. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:44, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Sources written on typewriters & styling

Hi ShakespeareFan00,

Some months ago you left a note on my talk page about some styling conventions that we apparently had different understandings of. That is, for a source text that was produced on a type writer, you had been transcribing the underlined section headings as bold, while I was transcribing them as underlined. (You may reference your original comment here on my talk page.)

Unfortunately I was forced to take some time off from WikiSource around the same time, so I was unable to follow up. Did anything ever come of it? (ie. was the issue ever raised over on the central discussion page)

(Also, on a mostly-unrelated note, thank you for your recent help proofreading the aviation accident reports I've been recently uploading to WS.)

-- Mukkakukaku (talk) 04:17, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

With the aviation reports, I'd gone with what the source document had for consistency.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:24, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't think the general issue concerning the conversion of underlined headings in type-written material was raised elsewhere yet? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:24, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

To be checked

Thanks for all your work paging out "To be checked" index pages. Clearing that years-old backlog isn't a very engaging task, but it is worthwhile, and you seem to be the only person who is chipping away at it. Hesperian 02:18, 21 December 2014 (UTC)


As I think you can tell, I have never done a damn index before in my life. Thank you very much for the help. I have downloaded a pdf version, along with a full text version, and will be prepping the content on my computer prior to putting it up. I still have a few pages of other works to upload as well, but with any luck I might get it at least started this weekend, and maybe with real luck finished next weekend. John Carter (talk) 22:05, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Index pages

Please use page numbers instead of page contents descriptions. This causes problems with linking to a page within a transcribed work. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:57, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Already reverted?, Thanks - :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:07, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

A work that might interest you

Hi, while hunting around on IA for something I came across this. Knowing your interest in railway related topics, I thought you might be interested. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:17, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


Thank you for your help with Index:A Brief History of South Dakota.djvu. I really appreciate it. New editor here. Runner1928 (talk) 03:57, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Index:Confederate Military History - 1899 - Volume 3.djvu


Hmm... Better if I actually did the pagelist, then tagging it? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:21, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Now done. There seem to be some maps absent from the scans. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:47, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
ShakespeareFan00, I didn't upload any of those volumes. I and other users have, on rare occasions, have done a few pages and on vague recall that was all or mostly all done before pagelist was asked to be done. There is a user who has stated to me that he plans to do the #3 Virginia volume but apparently has started and stopped or is slow starting. I know of no others who plan to do any of the other volumes. I personally am doing validations for others and have my own projects I am focused on aside for validating other works for people. I have not seen any maps but the other user who is a native Virginian will come to those maps and will probably resolve the situation somehow.

Too, there are CV aka Confederate Veteran files uploaded. I do not know who uploaded them but I would bet nobody does any of those - unless they like complicated image and text volumes. I assume they were placed online as saved resources. -- Kindest regards, —Maury (talk) 01:36, 10 January 2015 (UTC)


ShakespeareFan00, would you please do the pagelist for my work on Index:Memoirs of a Huguenot Family.djvu ? I don't know how to make pagelists. I proofread, validate for others, and that is about it. Kind regards, —Maury (talk) 07:52, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

New Proposal Notification - Replacement of common main-space header template

Announcing the listing of a new formal proposal recently added to the Scriptorium community-discussion page, Proposals section, titled:

Switch header template foundation from table-based to division-based

The proposal entails the replacement of the current Header template familiar to most with a structurally redesigned new Header template. Replacement is a needed first step in series of steps needed to properly address the long time deficiencies behind several issues as well as enhance our mobile device presence.

There should be no significant operational or visual differences between the existing and proposed Header templates under normal usage (i.e. Desktop view). The change is entirely structural -- moving away from the existing HTML all Table make-up to an all Div[ision] based one.

Please examine the testcases where the current template is compared to the proposed replacement. Don't forget to also check Mobile Mode from the testcases page -- which is where the differences between current header template & proposed header template will be hard to miss.

For those who are concerned over the possible impact replacement might have on specific works, you can test the replacement on your own by entering edit mode, substituting the header tag {{header with {{header/sandbox and then previewing the work with the change in place. Saving the page with the change in place should not be needed but if you opt to save the page instead of just previewing it, please remember to revert the change soon after your done inspecting the results.

Your questions or comments are welcomed. At the same time I personally urge participants to support this proposed change. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:04, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Sidenotes redux.

I don't know why you can't seem understand that sidenotes cannot be properly implemented until fix-ups occur in both the ProofreadPage extension and the current Dynamic Layout scheme. Oh Sure. You can make it look like the printed page using another bazillion single-work templates, but everything you do now will all have to be undone when those fixes are finally realized. You are actually making more work in the long run.

Please -- for the love of God - find something sidenote free to work on (or just proofread the main body of text, leaving the sidenotes for another day). -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:29, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Finally I get the explanation I was needing, that something is actually broken, and its seemingly not worth tying to find an acceptable workaround.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:36, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately that is the sad reality (and I have volumes and volumes of government serials that have sidenotes just collecting dust too; I've been pizzed off about that for years now).

btw The above section points to the first step of many to follow to try and get to the root of the problem(s). -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:41, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Linked the comments here to the phabricator thread, can remove if needed. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:43, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

"Nested divs..." and "sidenotes based on nested divs..." are not exactly the same thing. Please don't confuse the issue anymore than it already it - rem the link to this discussion.

Plus the folks at Phabricator aren't going to be able to anything for us until we at least get our house in some sort of "acceptable order" first. -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:52, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I've reverted the experimental templates in the work they were used in... Do you want me to start rveerting uses of {{sn-parargaph}} on a similar basis, albiet that one is documented and notes it cannot be used for multi-paragraphs yet?ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:46, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't know how far & deep that template'ss usage has been to date. I leave it up to your judgment. -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:52, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
3 works. :)
Page:1930_QLD_Royal_Commission_into_Racing_Report.djvu/51 I've reverted some, but will go back and put in what are in effect sidetitles as the font style shown in that example. Saves having to re proof the page. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 02:06, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Calcutta, Past and Present.djvu

Page:Calcutta, Past and Present.djvu/283, which on the Index is 206. The transcription is not the same text as the scan. So far, this is the only one I've found like that. Maile66 (talk) 15:26, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Which scan are you using, purge first? I've rechecked and there is no issue..16:39, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, it looks perfect now. Strange. Maile66 (talk) 17:22, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Comment on Vril

You posted on my user page about the work Vril: The Power of the Coming Race; The New Utopia, could you please clarify what this means? :

"Somewhere buried in the Index: namespace was a version of this supported by scans. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:45, 18 January 2015 (UTC)"

--Riadse96 (talk) 19:58, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Task 86984

The merits aside, where is the local proposal and community consensus agreeing to this -- not only on en.wikisource -- but every sister project possibly effected?

Forgive me if this comes off other than intended but you are way out of line by bringing this to Phabricator without even local notification never mind a formal proposal, etc. taking place here first. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:11, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

This was a completely independent effort made in what was intended to be good faith, based on the fact that the template was found to be incredibly useful.
However you make a convincing argument, that this SHOULD have been subject to a local consultation first.
On that basis, is there a way to withdraw the task on the basis it's technically out of process? (Even if I withdraw it myself?) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 02:16, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
I completely understand and have been chastised more than once for doing exactly the same thing under exactly the assumption of best-interest/good-faith; please - no worries; no need to read into this any further than that.

As long as the nuance of thinking before opening a ticket and how it relates locally (or not) sticks with you for the future, then my work is done here. YOU should first claim the task for yourself, change the priority to normal (or lower) and make sure the security level is set to none before you close the task as invalid. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:26, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

I've withdrawn them as Declined (for now), as opposed to Invalid... I of course have no objection to them being re-opened if there is further discussion, or interest. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 03:02, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Right now on what basis do we start the relevant local discussion? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 03:08, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

That is an entirely different matter in my opinion. I, for one, am not in favor of expanding the inline Ts styling scheme without addressing what Tech13 correctly suggested back under the Task after you closed it -- come up with and agree upon the addition of [more] basic HTML table-related class definitions to be applied as a core foundation before altering individual elements with further styling customizations. The ones we have defined now class=prettytable, class=basicWS and class=commonWS (MediaWiki:Common.css/Tweaks.css) hardly ever get used as it is so this is a lot more than proposing a conversion of the existing scheme but amending the current policy and practices re: style-guide(s) prior to a possible "expansion upon" or "conversion of" what is already in place via formal proposal & community consensus. -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:30, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Do you have objections to me quoting that on the Scriptorium? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Overall & in general -- none at all.

At this particular moment in time -- I'd rather not crack open that can of worms just yet.

HTML Tables, in general, are about to be, if not already, "superseded" by the latest CSS3 specifications so any focus in, on or around anything-HTML table related is putting the cart before the horse. The long standing issue with tables is that they were never meant be used for formatting anything -- even its own contents. Tables were simply meant to organize comma-separated bits of info (think Microsoft Excel here) in a simple, rationale fashion and display them accordingly. But because of previously existing limitations of the Div[ision] element world-wide in addition to the "loss" of flexibility & applicability of sectional heading (H1 thru H5) here specifically in the wiki-world, the Html table has become a "be-all, fix-all" for many situations (that goes 2x for us on WS).

That primary, non-Wiki specific DIV issue has been pretty much been resolved (the caveat being that "old" browsers will never recognize CSS3). Please carefully look over the following - specifically the display: attribute's value(s) in the inline styling -- for starters:

<div id="wrapper container" style="box-sizing:border-box;">
<div style="display:table; border-collapse:collapse; border-size:0px 0px; empty-cells:hide; width:100%;">
<div style="display:table-row-group; background-color:#E6E6E6;">
<div style="display:table-row;">
<div style="display:table-cell; text-align:right; width:11em;">Left</div>
<div style="display:table-cell; text-align:left; width:3em;">Sec.&nbsp;1.</div>
<div style="display:table-cell; text-align:justify; width:auto;"><!--
	--><span>Jurisdiction is based on diversity of citizenship, 28 U.S.C. § 1332(a)(1). Plaintiff, Florence Simpson, is an individual residing in New Jersey. Defendant, Lifespring, Inc. ("Lifespring") is a California corporation with its principal place of business in California.</span></div>
<div style="display:table-cell; text-align:right; width:3.00em;">pt. I.</div>
<div style="display:table-cell; width:11em;">Right</div>
<div style="display:table-row;">
<div style="display:table-cell; text-align:right; width:11em;">Left</div>
<div style="display:table-cell; text-align:left; width:3em;">Sec.&nbsp;1.</div>
<div style="display:table-cell; text-align:justify; width:auto;"><!--
	--><span>Defendant John P. Hanley ("Hanley") is a citizen and resident of the State of California. He is President and principal shareholder of Lifespring. Plaintiff alleges that she participated in a group training program conducted by Lifespring in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania during April 1981. She contends that she was subjected to psychological manipulation resulting in psychological and emotional injuries.</span></div>
<div style="display:table-cell; text-align:right; width:3.00em;">pt. II.</div>
<div style="display:table-cell; width:11em;">Right</div>
Just copy and paste the above to your favorite sandbox, save and you should see an all DIV based rendering of a 2 row, 5 column TABLE -- without all that HTML TABLE non-flexibility baggage. And THAT is one of the biggest problems facing Wiki-whatever at this point in time; the over-use/abuse of the HTML TABLE spec for purposes other than intended.

Fortunately modern browsers and OS'es recognize CSS3 and the above implementation -- and good reason for us to address issues that will hinder this transition -- both in policy and practice -- before anything else that, in the end, adds to the existing Jenga pile of blocks concerning tables (all of the above is just my-humble-opinion of course - you are free to do whatever however you like). -- George Orwell III (talk) 10:20, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

When is the CSS3 standard likely to adopted? because the above seems to be a lot more sensible for some applications, also surely some of this could be wrapped in classes, like Technical13 was suggesting on the closed task?.
If it works on the latest versions of Internet Explorer (yes), FireFox (yes), Google Chrome (yes), Safari (yes) -- then consider it adopted.

The real-world problem is with folks still using older versions of those browsers in too-high of a percentage wiki-wide. The additional reason we can't do something along those lines (yet) is because Mobile Mode doesn't recognize almost any of the current local & server-fed the desktop-mode CSS definitions as it is (in short: too much, too fast & too soon). -- George Orwell III (talk) 10:59, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

This might and I say might also suggest one solution to the sidenotes issue, at least in terms of 'paragraph' centric sidenotes, it wouldn't be any use for sidenotes that occur mid-paragraph (as I've encountered in the Ruffhead Statutes for example.), However you've previously stated that full sidenotes support is currently blocked by other issues, and I suspect likely to remain so.

Would it at some future date (after consultation) be worth suggesting that the above CSS3 based approach becomes the accepted rendering for tables on Mediawiki, the former HTML methods being deprecated to legacy browser support?ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:37, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

You're killing me here - I explained all this already.

Dynamic Layouts, embedded pagenum link-backs, hover highlighting and several other tangent pieces to them all must "die" first (i.e. be totally redesigned) before any of this-thing or that-thing can truly happen. I only managed to get the idea of switching to an all Div-based 'exact replica of the long-time, table-based header template familiar to most regulars just this month. Do you understand how more seemingly inconsequential and/or idiotic refinements still need to be vetted, proposed and implemented to that all-DIV-based header before we can address the next problem in a chain of problems - the auto-footer created that's based on the header template's info?

Don't get me started. -- George Orwell III (talk) 10:59, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Leave my work alone

I am aware that this contradicts the spirit and the law of Wikisource, but your 'modus operandi' of butting in, interfering with projects without any in depth assessment, starting and not completing, assigning tasks to people rather than doing them yourself, and then using feeble excuses as to why not, are actions that leave a lot of shit in their wake and irritate me and others to no end. The posts on your talk page on Wikipedia confirm this.

Now, please repair the mess you made HERE, and in the future, regardless of your "acting in good faith", please stay away from me and my work. — Ineuw talk 16:24, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

I can't actually repair or complete that at present as I explained to G03, because MediaWiki wont't let me move a page over the Redirects, which is why I asked for assistance when I did. I flagged the redirects for speedy deletion, which would enable a script to move the remainder of the affected block without hassle.

Next time, I will just simply consider not contributing at all, because according to you I seem to lack the competence to do so effectively. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:33, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Re: Next time consult &c.

Obviously you know who I am; as do I when you are (conveniently) not logged-in. Don't lecture me when (with a tiny amount more effort) you could have made your work impeccable should you have taken the minimal effort to document your changes and/or have checked your edits before committing them to "Save."

Pot, kettle: both equally black.


I need say no more. The above was unsigned

Well I consider the above to be a little unreasonable, we all sometimes forget to log in. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:19, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

I've had enough


If I am going to get hassle for reverting what looked like an odd choice, leaving a comment to consult (based on what others have said) then perhaps it's time I stop contributing altogether, once certain projects I'm working on are complete. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:22, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

In addition the IP claims I knew which user they are, I didn't and there's no easy to determine it. Fed up ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:24, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Look - I don't know what to tell you here other than it was certainly not me. Again, I was only trying make point so that you would not repeat the mistake in the future. Unfortunately, your mishaps seem to have (directly or indirectly) "opened-up" some long standing frayed nerves at the same.

Why don't you take a complete break from WS for a day or two and see if you (and everybody/anybody else) "feel" about "things" then. -- George Orwell III (talk) 11:52, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

I feel the same way as GO3. Don't pack up your bags and leave. Take a break and asses the issues brought up. You have access to your history of activities and reflect on it. I did it and it helped. I also have no clue who left you that IP signed message. Just ignore it. — Ineuw talk 15:12, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
In respect of the Lillypond issue, see the discussion on the Scriptorium... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:14, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
The 'Lillypond issue' and all your past questions of similar nature are good examples of your lack of faith in your own work. Has anyone complained? Has anyone told you to do otherwise, because it's wrong? Personally, I think it's a great job to have both because they are distinctly different. Trust me that if it was wrong, you would be told sooner or later with an explanation!

My strong feeling is that aside from the issue of lack of faith, you have a need and desire for feedback and contact. Well, you are in the wrong place for that. By the very nature and definition of this place and our work negate that. Facebook etc. would probably be a better place for that.— Ineuw talk 15:44, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

The discussion on the Scriptorium on the Lillypond issue, was because I DID trust my own working, but wanted a second opinion more generally, as other works of a similar nature may be affected. (I also refer the Honourable Contributor to some comments made a few posts up.)ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:51, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Pursuit of this subject is just another fine example of your indulging in what I outlined above. Don't fish for second opinions and pats in the back. You won't get it. They are time consuming and meaningless, just like the continuation of this post.— Ineuw talk 16:54, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Well you've made your point. Discussion terminated.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:57, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Index:Physical Geography of the Sea and its Meteorology.djvu - ShakespeareFan00, Thank you !

ShakespeareFan00, I am very glad that you took your time and have helped me with proofreading pages on this project as you have with other projects. Seriously, don't let any online bullying get to you. You do good work. I know from watching over a few of years as well as assisting you on some of your works. You are valuable in helping others who don't know every thing that needs to be known. None of us knows that much and none of us is better than the next person. We all just know some different things. WS and WP isn't all that constitutes real life -- far from it -- it is more of a place for loners who want something to cling to and yet something worthy to do. —Maury (talk) 21:50, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:38, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
And I've found some coding errors I made 2-5 years ago which no-one including me noticed :(

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:36, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

My thanks also for the effort you have made in page-checking of the works added by me. You are possibly the only worker in that department, and this kind of work also has great value. I have corrected the faults you have pointed out in those works and your efforts are welcome in my projects. Hrishikes (talk) 01:50, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
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